Permanency - how far is too far?

[Totema]

I'm writing this, mostly out of curiosity, to get a general gauge on what most of the GitPers think are good bounds on the Permanency spell. What have you allowed to be made permanent that you don't think others would? What have you been asked to be made permanent that you wouldn't agree to in a million years?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Is there a rule letting you make other spells work?

Or is this homebrew?

Regardless, ability score buffs I can see as fine.
Granted you save an item slot and it's less gold but nothing too broken.

I would guess stuff like Invisibility would do the trick.
I would say Divine Power... but Cleric can already do that by RAW.

[Totema]

The spell description totally points out that there's room for DM fiat:


The DM may allow other selected spells to be made permanent. Researching this possible application of a spell costs as much time and money as independently researching the selected spell (see the Dungeon Master's Guide for details). If the DM has already determined that the application is not possible, the research automatically fails. Note that you never learn what is possible except by the success or failure of your research.

I'm attempting to see how far some players have been able to capitalize on this.

[Emperor Tippy]

It partially depends on how the Permanency is being gained. I mean the player casting it themselves is something very different from the playing getting an Ice Assassin of a Solar with Tenacious Magic: Permanency SLA to cast it.

Considering that I've let people play with permanent (via Alter Reality) Shapechange before though, I have very few hard and fast limits.

[Psyren]

As a very general rule of thumb, the longer a spell lasts the less of an issue it is to permanency or persist. So if a spell already lasts for multiple hours, or even 10 min./level (as Shapechange does) then making it permanent probably isn't going to impact much because the player probably had it up for multiple combats without recasting it anyway. But when you get down into min./level and rounds/level you need to be a little more careful. And of course, be especially wary of spells with fixed durations (unless, again, the last multiple hours or multiple 10-minute increments) and be wary of spells that can be discharged, as these can have odd effects.

[Gwazi Magnum]

The spell description totally points out that there's room for DM fiat:



I'm attempting to see how far some players have been able to capitalize on this.

I'm surprised I missed that... o.O
Interesting.

Honestly I think anything that is meant to be a quick "Get out of any situation" spell should be looked over carefully before being made permanent. For example Greater Invisibility... that can just get ridiculous.

[Kennisiou]

I'm surprised I missed that... o.O
Interesting.

Honestly I think anything that is meant to be a quick "Get out of any situation" spell should be looked over carefully before being made permanent. For example Greater Invisibility... that can just get ridiculous.

But I love my greater blink + greater invisibility DMM Chameleon. He's not ridiculous.

[Drachasor]

Oddly, most of the permanent effects cost 500XP/2500GP (3.5/PF) per spell level, regardless of other factors. This makes them expensive for low level spells (especially since they can be dispelled), but much cheaper for higher level effects. This oddity is probably why only low level spells can be cast on people.

Hmm, Permanent Invisibility on weapons + Telekinesis = attack flat-footed AC? Probably not RAW, but amusing to think about (permanent See Invisibility or similar on the caster, obviously).

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, any spell that lasts hours/level or longer should be fine. They last all day after level 9 anyway.

10min/level and shorter duration are fine for lower level effects.

Minor buffs like straight bonuses are also fine. I had a party who wanted to use permenancy magic fang on a minion for cheep/quick enhancement bonus on a natural attack. It worked out well. I have even allowed greater magic weapon to be made permanent. We called it budget magic swords.

That would actually be a cool idea for a low magic setting. Magic weapons would be dispel-able and...

That would actually be horrid, never mind.