Bull rushing against a wall?

[Saruman]

Hi, I was wondering, if a PC exceeds the opposed Strenght Check by 5 or more, and his target is right next to a wall, does the Bull Rush inflict damage, provided that the enemy can't be pushed any further due to the wall?

[Kaeso]

Hi, I was wondering, if a PC exceeds the opposed Strenght Check by 5 or more, and his target is right next to a wall, does the Bull Rush inflict damage, provided that the enemy can't be pushed any further due to the wall?

If you're a dungeoncrasher fighter: yes.
If not, then not according to RAW. you could houserule something in, but then you'd rob the dungeoncrasher fighter of his schtick.

[Spore]

I feel falling prone is already good enough. Additional damage ruled in is not necessary.

[Slipperychicken]

If you're a dungeoncrasher fighter: yes.
If not, then not according to RAW. you could houserule something in, but then you'd rob the dungeoncrasher fighter of his schtick.

If it dealt damage as an unarmed strike, that would probably make it worthwhile without gimping dungeoncrashers too much.

[Saruman]

And what if a Purple Worm crushes his enemy into a wall? Does that counts as a Bull Rush?

[Ziegander]

And what if a Purple Worm crushes his enemy into a wall? Does that counts as a Bull Rush?

I don't understand the question. Any time a creature attempts to push another creature around, it's a Bull Rush. Purple Worms don't have any special "Crush" attack that I recall, so what are you asking about specifically?

[herrhauptmann]

I don't understand the question. Any time a creature attempts to push another creature around, it's a Bull Rush. Purple Worms don't have any special "Crush" attack that I recall, so what are you asking about specifically?

Probably trying to get a ruling on something that happened in-game.

In this case, I'd say "no." We've established that it doesn't normally happen without dungeoncrasher fighter. Purple worm doesn't get a feature like that.
Maybe rule it as a trample, which means it follows all the trample rules regarding avoidance and AOOs.

[ShurikVch]

Caber (exotic weapon from Masters of the Wild) allow to make a ranged (10') bull rush.

A caber is a heavy pole that you can throw at one or more targets grouped closely together. To throw a caber, you must target a 10-toot-square area and hit AC 15. Success means that everyone in the target area must make a Reflex save (DC = your attack roll) or move 5 feet backward. If a creature or object in the target area is incapable of movement, it takes 2d6 points of damage. The caber is normally used for breaking up military formations.

[lsfreak]

By RAW, nothing happens.

I'm very likely to houserule in damage, though, as I feel most of the combat options (bull rush, overrun, disarm, sunder) are woefully inadequate. Something like 2xStr damage for every 5 "unused" points you beat the check by. Nothing overwhelming but something that makes it a bit more worthwhile to attempt. A sufficiently strong bullrusher - as a purple worm is likely to be - might get an automatic break attempt against the wall.


I feel falling prone is already good enough. Additional damage ruled in is not necessary.
This isn't actually a thing, unless it's outside of the bull rushing description. If you fail your attempt and the square you fall back to is occupied, you're rendered prone, and Shock Trooper lets you trip people via bull rushing, but the default bull rush doesn't contain anything about tripping someone if you push them into an occupied square. That would be a reasonable houserule as well, though.

[cerin616]

By RAW, nothing happens.

I'm very likely to houserule in damage, though, as I feel most of the combat options (bull rush, overrun, disarm, sunder) are woefully inadequate. Something like 2xStr damage for every 5 "unused" points you beat the check by. Nothing overwhelming but something that makes it a bit more worthwhile to attempt. A sufficiently strong bullrusher - as a purple worm is likely to be - might get an automatic break attempt against the wall.


This isn't actually a thing, unless it's outside of the bull rushing description. If you fail your attempt and the square you fall back to is occupied, you're rendered prone, and Shock Trooper lets you trip people via bull rushing, but the default bull rush doesn't contain anything about tripping someone if you push them into an occupied square. That would be a reasonable houserule as well, though.

2xstr per 5 is absurdly high considering someone with high str is usually doing the bullrush. Unless you are very specific on how it apllies, because by your house rule, I can build a power attacker thats large size with knockback. Power attack bonus can be added to the bullrush with knockback and I can easily get 100+ to my bullrush check.

I like the unarmed damage added to your bullrush. or even just a static 2xstr (added on top of dungeon crasher, if you take that.)

[Slipperychicken]

2xstr per 5 is absurdly high considering someone with high str is usually doing the bullrush. Unless you are very specific on how it apllies, because by your house rule, I can build a power attacker thats large size with knockback. Power attack bonus can be added to the bullrush with knockback and I can easily get 100+ to my bullrush check.

I like the unarmed damage added to your bullrush. or even just a static 2xstr (added on top of dungeon crasher, if you take that.)

One would want to figure out how to resolve this for creatures which lack an Unarmed Strike. Maybe [UAS die according to size category] + Strength?

[Saruman]

I don't understand the question. Any time a creature attempts to push another creature around, it's a Bull Rush. Purple Worms don't have any special "Crush" attack that I recall, so what are you asking about specifically?

I meant, even without the "crush" attacks, a Gargantuan creature would inflict more damage if it decides to crush its victim against a wall, I'm not sure if that would be considerated a normal attack.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I meant, even without the "crush" attacks, a Gargantuan creature would inflict more damage if it decides to crush its victim against a wall, I'm not sure if that would be considerated a normal attack.If Bull Rushing against a wall did damage normally, that would be represented by the gargantuan creature's impressive bonus to Bull Rush, along with its likely high strength.

I say just fluff one of the natural attacks as him crushing the PC against the wall and be done with it.

[Phelix-Mu]

The key here is that the RAW, in an effort to simplify combat damage calculations, looks at the attacker and the target in a vacuum. Situational/terrain-based damage is not at all part of the simulation. Unless you trigger a second effect (like bull rushing someone into a spiked pit trap), then the environment does not cause damage. The same thing is true if someone is knocked prone in a square that is full of sharp weapons. There is no given way to simulate the fact that someone should likely get hurt due to falling into the same area as pointy stuff. We are soundly in DM purview territory.

I agree that making ad-hoc Trample damage for the creature would be a good way to simulate the amount of damage that this should likely cause. If you are the DM, though, the key is usually to make it enough that it isn't trivial, but not so much that standing next to that wall was the last meaningful thing that character will ever do. Failures can teach situational awareness, death much less so.

[cakellene]

Didn't one of the ask sage columns have a response that bullrushing someone into a solid object caused 1d6?