[3.5] [Build] A Cohort for Kitty

[Red Fel]

Some of you may remember awhile back when, with your help, I put together several deliciously wicked Tibbit builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314320). (Thanks to everyone involved in that thread, by the way!)

Now, I think that any one of those would be an incredibly fun character concept. But something was bothering me. Something was missing.

And then I realized what would make them perfect. A cohort. A mundane, everyday support character who would carry the kitty around, talk to it, treat it like it was intelligent. A cohort whom the rest of the party would assume was (1) insane for talking to a kitty, and (2) in fact the PC.

I've read concepts like this before, and think that, coupled with these Tibbit builds, it would be both fun and funny. So here's where I need your help - looking at Builds 1, 2, and 3 in the thread linked above, how would you build a cohort for this kitty?

As always, the rules: Sources are 3.0/3.5 only. No PF, no 4e, no third party, no homebrew. Dragon Compendium okay, Dragon Magazine out. The cohort must be plain. This means no templates, no LAs, no particularly exotic races. Human is fine, as are dwarves, elves, half-orcs, etc. Minor variances (like Gray Elves or such) are acceptable, if not ideal. I'd like to avoid more unusual tweaked-out variants. (So, for example, a Dragonborn Water Proto-Orc is a no-go.) The cohort must be support. Valuable enough that he contributes to the party, but not so valuable that the party will collapse if I kill him off and decide to retrain Leadership. Powerful classes (e.g. Wizard, Cleric, Druid) are acceptable if they can be used in a near-purely support capacity. The cohort must be simple to build. Because this is the cohort, and not the actual PC, and may not even be held onto for long after the "big reveal," a complex, optimized build is not required. Dips should be minimal, and ideally the cohort should be a straight single-class build. It need not be a class that ordinarily gets a familiar or animal companion, in fact it might be funnier if it isn't. Good preferred. Loyal required. Int and Wis not mandatory. The cohort should be someone the party would like having around, but simple and obedient. Low Int or Wis isn't required (in fact, if we go with a caster class, higher is good), but it helps with the image. Because this is a cohort, and thus more expendable than the base character, the build is very lactose intolerant. Cheese strongly discouraged.So those are the basics. Let's give our kitty a cohort, shall we? Pencils up, and... begin!

[Pyromancer999]

Dwarf Cleric that worships a god/goddess of cats, like Bast. Unusual choice, but good build overall.

[Red Fel]

Dwarf Cleric that worships a god/goddess of cats, like Bast. Unusual choice, but good build overall.

Interesting. And I do like the Cleric of Cats angle. Three questions.

1: Why Dwarf? It's an interesting but specific racial choice. Is there something specific about dwarves that makes this fit?

2: How would you design a Cleric, usually a T1 class, to be a support role? Particularly in a party that might anticipate the Cleric to be the party powerhouse instead of a support character.

3: Do you see it synergizing with any of the Tibbit builds? Obviously, if it started putting combat buffs on Build #3, for example, the party would look askew upon this strange dwarf. (At least until they knew the true identity of kitty.) Would it have synergy whatsoever with the Telepath build?

[Pyromancer999]

Interesting. And I do like the Cleric of Cats angle. Three questions.

1: Why Dwarf? It's an interesting but specific racial choice. Is there something specific about dwarves that makes this fit?

Dwarf is generally regarded as one of the best races for clerics. Thematically, a female human would probably be a better choice.


2: How would you design a Cleric, usually a T1 class, to be a support role? Particularly in a party that might anticipate the Cleric to be the party powerhouse instead of a support character.

Clerics are always good for healing and buffs, as well as being able to handle themselves decently in combat. Clerics are T1 because they can do anything, which does include a support role, even if it's not the most optimal use.


3: Do you see it synergizing with any of the Tibbit builds? Obviously, if it started putting combat buffs on Build #3, for example, the party would look askew upon this strange dwarf. (At least until they knew the true identity of kitty.) Would it have synergy whatsoever with the Telepath build?

It could have some good synergy. There are various spell-enhancing spells out there, which works for caster builds and builds like the Telepath build if your DM uses spells-psionics transparency(which is the default). Also, in addition to buffs, Clerics can debuff and also do some control, although the latter can somewhat depend on domains, which can help various builds.

Also, if you need to heal/buff your actual character in cat form, you can simply use the angle of crazy (old) cat lady(Oh yeah, if it doesn't seem too cheesy, you may want to have the cleric be of old age to increase stats like Wisdom).

So while it might be unusual, well, makes sense for a crazy old cat lady to care about her cat, even if it seems odd to the rest of the party at first.

[Spore]

My opti-fu for 3.5 is very weak, but some kind of bardish character would probably be better than a cleric. Why?

a) Less of that divine worshipping vibe.

b) Weaker and more support oriented than cleric.

c) I feel worship as a godlike creature is a bit over the top. Songs about the feats of Tibbit the fierce and merciless are more along the lines of a feline hero.

d) Bards offer a huge variety of skills. Asking your cohort, what the hell are you fighting and how to beat it isn't something actively but surely very helpful.

[Red Fel]

Dwarf is generally regarded as one of the best races for clerics. Thematically, a female human would probably be a better choice.

Hmm... I agree with Dwarf-as-Cleric, and it would certainly have slightly more flavor than Generic Human Female #27. I can dig it.


Clerics are always good for healing and buffs, as well as being able to handle themselves decently in combat. Clerics are T1 because they can do anything, which does include a support role, even if it's not the most optimal use.

True, very true. A Cleric whose primary function is buff, control and out-of-combat healing would be useful at all times, while not overshadowing the party. I can dig it.


It could have some good synergy. There are various spell-enhancing spells out there, which works for caster builds and builds like the Telepath build if your DM uses spells-psionics transparency(which is the default). Also, in addition to buffs, Clerics can debuff and also do some control, although the latter can somewhat depend on domains, which can help various builds.

Also, if you need to heal/buff your actual character in cat form, you can simply use the angle of crazy (old) cat lady(Oh yeah, if it doesn't seem too cheesy, you may want to have the cleric be of old age to increase stats like Wisdom).

So while it might be unusual, well, makes sense for a crazy old cat lady to care about her cat, even if it seems odd to the rest of the party at first.

Hmm... Makes sense. I'd have to look into some of these casting-enhancing spells, but all valid points. Straight-up Dwarf Cleric goes on the list!


My opti-fu for 3.5 is very weak, but some kind of bardish character would probably be better than a cleric. Why?

a) Less of that divine worshipping vibe.

b) Weaker and more support oriented than cleric.

c) I feel worship as a godlike creature is a bit over the top. Songs about the feats of Tibbit the fierce and merciless are more along the lines of a feline hero.

d) Bards offer a huge variety of skills. Asking your cohort, what the hell are you fighting and how to beat it isn't something actively but surely very helpful.

Now, this was an answer I was anticipating: Bard. Bards are, as you mention, the classically support-oriented class. Skill checks for the party, Charisma for face-time stuff and to offset the peculiarity of an apparent kitty fixation, light spells and melee for that good stuff. I can see it.

So what would you do with a bard? Have a particular race in mind? Any particular spells upon which to focus?

As an aside, I realized I've left things out of the OP, so I've gone back and updated it.

[Baroknik]

My vote goes to sorcerer. Why you may ask?
Mainly for three reasons.
1) CHA based casting means you are very forceful of personality (like a cat)
2) the to bit isn't your character, it's your familiar! (Having taken an ACF instead)
3) with their limited spells known, sorcerers are easy to keep from overshadowing the group -- be sure to take a bunch of cat-themed spells!

EDIT: of course we all know he should be a CE halfling ranger named The Belkster

[Red Fel]

My vote goes to sorcerer. Why you may ask?
Mainly for three reasons.
1) CHA based casting means you are very forceful of personality (like a cat)
2) the to bit isn't your character, it's your familiar! (Having taken an ACF instead)
3) with their limited spells known, sorcerers are easy to keep from overshadowing the group -- be sure to take a bunch of cat-themed spells!

Hmm. It has merit, and certainly deflects suspicion away from the tibbit. It's an interesting choice. My concern when taking a Sorc/Wiz-type character is that the party might end up relying on it for primary damage, which I'd like to avoid. But you're right, it's not hard to fill its spell list with tactical/control spells.


EDIT: of course we all know he should be a CE halfling ranger named The Belkster

You have no idea just how tempted I was am. No idea.

[Spore]

Now, this was an answer I was anticipating: Bard. Bards are, as you mention, the classically support-oriented class. Skill checks for the party, Charisma for face-time stuff and to offset the peculiarity of an apparent kitty fixation, light spells and melee for that good stuff. I can see it.

So what would you do with a bard? Have a particular race in mind? Any particular spells upon which to focus?

As an aside, I realized I've left things out of the OP, so I've gone back and updated it.

You want it adaptable and - possibly - a bit bland. Go for Elf, Half Elf, Human.

Spell wise stuff like:
Detect Secret Doors "Look, a door over there"
Identify "I think that's a magical sword!"
Invisible Servant: After you fall into water, a towel comes floating by
Glitterdust
Haste
Daylight

So basically everything that removes an inconvience or adds to your power. The skills are dependant on your own skills and the group.

[Baroknik]

Have you considered taking thrallherd with the psikitty? That would put your cohort 1 level less than the party; choose a race that has a lesser variant but is normally LA+1 so no one is suspicious. A lesser asimar descended from Bath? Just tell them your an aasimar if they ask, they won't even have metaknowledge of your true master!

[Red Fel]

You want it adaptable and - possibly - a bit bland. Go for Elf, Half Elf, Human.

Spell wise stuff like:
Detect Secret Doors "Look, a door over there"
Identify "I think that's a magical sword!"
Invisible Servant: After you fall into water, a towel comes floating by
Glitterdust
Haste
Daylight

So basically everything that removes an inconvience or adds to your power. The skills are dependant on your own skills and the group.

That's... Really quite perfect. An Elven Bard has the added benefit of being able to passively search for secret doors. The spells you mention are extremely useful for handling basic logistics, and as mentioned, Charisma means an easy party face.

So, how would you stat this Elven Bard? Straight Bard? What feats would you recommend?

[Rebel7284]

Make your cohort a Barbarian Ranger that shouts "go for the eyes boo!" a lot. >_>

[Particle_Man]

When I read the OP I started thinking of a much-put-upon half-orc fighter in the style of Worf being forced to take care of Data's cat.

[Red Fel]

Make your cohort a Barbarian Ranger that shouts "go for the eyes boo!" a lot. >_>

Haha! Reference got.

Side note, I did think about making my cohort the Thogaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049) just for kicks, but decided against it.


When I read the OP I started thinking of a much-put-upon half-orc fighter in the style of Worf being forced to take care of Data's cat.

That image is a bit priceless. Unfortunately, it risks an early reveal - why would this half-orc fighter take such good care of this cat if he seems so unhappy doing so? I do like the idea of having the mildly snarky, thoroughly put-upon cohort, however.

"Shall I clean your litterbox, sir?"
"Meow."
"... Again?"
"MEOW."
"... sigh."

[bekeleven]

If not going bard, consider marshal and dragon shaman as the other go-to support classes.

If sticking with bard, consider looking into them for dips. Although if you're pumping DFI it might not be worth it.

[Red Fel]

If not going bard, consider marshal and dragon shaman as the other go-to support classes.

If sticking with bard, consider looking into them for dips. Although if you're pumping DFI it might not be worth it.

I'd like to avoid dipping on this cohort, for the most part.

You're right, however, that Marshal is a really solid support class. Decent BAB, two good saves, auras, grant move action, diplomacy. Very useful, and mechanically simple to use. I like.

Dragon Shaman, similarly, gives me the decent BAB and two good saves, and auras. And then... Hmm. I don't know. The skill focus doesn't impress me, the breath weapon tends to disappoint, and the other features... I've not played one, so I don't know how they run, but it doesn't wow me.

And as a side note, the cohort won't have Dragonblood subtype, so DFI is off the table.

[Baroknik]

If be careful about playing a dragon shaman, they are the definition of dull. While they have some useful group abilities, their activity I'm encounters consists of:
Breath weapon
Attack
Attack
Attack
Repeat
They are basically fighters without the benefit of bonus feats as far as their actual play goes...

EDIT: also, why doesn't the shredkitty have the Cat domain?

[Red Fel]

If be careful about playing a dragon shaman, they are the definition of dull. While they have some useful group abilities, their activity I'm encounters consists of:
Breath weapon
Attack
Attack
Attack
Repeat
They are basically fighters without the benefit of bonus feats as far as their actual play goes...

But dull is good! This is a cohort, I can't have him upstaging the rest of the party. The only question is whether the support he provides justifies his presence. Bard, Cleric, even Marshal, they offer genuine functional support for the party. My only question is whether the ShamWow does as well.

[bekeleven]

The best part of Dragon Shaman is level 1, where you pick up "all allies have fast healing 1 until at half health." The class pretty much goes downhill from there, hence why I suggested a dip.

[Spore]

That's... Really quite perfect. An Elven Bard has the added benefit of being able to passively search for secret doors. The spells you mention are extremely useful for handling basic logistics, and as mentioned, Charisma means an easy party face.

So, how would you stat this Elven Bard? Straight Bard? What feats would you recommend?

As I mentioned, my opt-fu is terrible (partly because I don't know only the CRB and Eberron CS by heart). Because of that I'd stay plain old bard. Attributes don't matter much, but you want much Int and Cha (is Intgain retroactive in 3.5?). Appraise (that is worth xy) Bluff (no no, master didn't do that) Diplomacy (you stroke kitty RIGHT MEOW!) Perform (the following poem is named: Tony is the grrrrreatest) Spellcraft (that's no moon! That's an ioun stone!) Speak Language and UMD. Then fill up with Knowledge checks.

Note that I didn't care about synergy skills because I simply don't know them (and she doesn't need those boosts anyway, she needs a solid amount of skills.)

I'd give her throwing knives (daggers) with quick draw for a teeny tiny bit of damage.

0:
Detect Magic
Message
Mending or Prestidigitation
Light

1:
Comprehend Languages
Detect Secret Doors
Identify
Remove Fear

2:
Animal Messenger
Glitterdust
Delay Poison
Tongues

3:
Dispel Magic
Glibness
Haste
Tiny Hut

4:
Break Enchantment
Cure Critical Wounds
Freedom of Movement
Locate Creature

5:
Dispel Magic, Greater
Dream
Heroism, Greater
Shadow Walk

6:
Find the Path
Heroes' Feast
Summon Monster 6 (the only combat choice, just because there was NO good 4. choice for that level)
Veil

Remember, I tried to create a spell list that revolves around logistics rather than combat prowess. I feel that a straight bard has the right amount of power for a character that does not want to grab the spotlight.

[Red Fel]

The best part of Dragon Shaman is level 1, where you pick up "all allies have fast healing 1 until at half health." The class pretty much goes downhill from there, hence why I suggested a dip.

Hmm... So Marshal with a 1-level ShamWow dip? Possible.


As I mentioned, my opt-fu is terrible (partly because I don't know only the CRB and Eberron CS by heart). Because of that I'd stay plain old bard. Attributes don't matter much, but you want much Int and Cha (is Intgain retroactive in 3.5?). Appraise (that is worth xy) Bluff (no no, master didn't do that) Diplomacy (you stroke kitty RIGHT MEOW!) Perform (the following poem is named: Tony is the grrrrreatest) Spellcraft (that's no moon! That's an ioun stone!) Speak Language and UMD. Then fill up with Knowledge checks.

Note that I didn't care about synergy skills because I simply don't know them (and she doesn't need those boosts anyway, she needs a solid amount of skills.)

I'd give her throwing knives (daggers) with quick draw for a teeny tiny bit of damage.

0:
Detect Magic
Message
Mending or Prestidigitation
Light

1:
Comprehend Languages
Detect Secret Doors
Identify
Remove Fear

2:
Animal Messenger
Glitterdust
Delay Poison
Tongues

3:
Dispel Magic
Glibness
Haste
Tiny Hut

4:
Break Enchantment
Cure Critical Wounds
Freedom of Movement
Locate Creature

5:
Dispel Magic, Greater
Dream
Heroism, Greater
Shadow Walk

6:
Find the Path
Heroes' Feast
Summon Monster 6 (the only combat choice, just because there was NO good 4. choice for that level)
Veil

Remember, I tried to create a spell list that revolves around logistics rather than combat prowess. I feel that a straight bard has the right amount of power for a character that does not want to grab the spotlight.

That's thorough, detailed, and extremely practical. It functions very nicely with any party, won't outperform anyone, and supports in almost any setting.

Do like!

[Pesimismrocks]

A really interesting build would be an Arcane tibbit with a Charlatan cohort. Give the tibbit the skill trick which hides magic and optimise sleight of hand. It looks as if your friend is casting the spells while the cat is just his familiar. Allows the cat to do things without it seeming out of place within the party

[SoraWolf7]

In my mind, I would think a skill monkey cohort would be a better task, so the party can think they're like a rogue/sorcerer or something while your cohort is your skill monkey and Tibbit caretaker. That way your cohort isn't completely useless and you can still screw with people. I'd suggest using Rogue for the idea of a cat burglar.

[Baroknik]

My fan for the kitty that hoodwinks everyone is the psion build (and like I mentioned earlier, maybe getting thrallherd instead of leadership). Psionics has the advantage that a trivial Concentration check means that no one knows the tibbit is doing the casting. Combine it with a cohort/thrall and no one knows that you're not playing the BSF.
Have you considered making the character a pure klutz? I'm thinking Commoner 1/Survivor 5/Fortune's Friend X. Basically you make yourself hard to kill and then start making it so you can Magoo your way through every situation... Oh, I botched hilariously? Welp, it's a good thing I tripped over my shoelaces at just that moment cause it made me stab the villain in the face! Where is Mr. Fluffy?

[Red Fel]

A really interesting build would be an Arcane tibbit with a Charlatan cohort. Give the tibbit the skill trick which hides magic and optimise sleight of hand. It looks as if your friend is casting the spells while the cat is just his familiar. Allows the cat to do things without it seeming out of place within the party

As tempting as that might be, the above builds allow for psionics or melee, not arcane casting. Further, the Tibbit's inability to speak or gesture while in kitty form hinders ordinary casting without the aid of metamagic feats. That said, I like where your head is.


In my mind, I would think a skill monkey cohort would be a better task, so the party can think they're like a rogue/sorcerer or something while your cohort is your skill monkey and Tibbit caretaker. That way your cohort isn't completely useless and you can still screw with people. I'd suggest using Rogue for the idea of a cat burglar.

Interesting. I agree that skill monkeying keeps the cohort relevant while not making them too powerful. And cat burglar is an amusing concept... If a bit dangerously Catwoman for my liking.


My fan for the kitty that hoodwinks everyone is the psion build (and like I mentioned earlier, maybe getting thrallherd instead of leadership). Psionics has the advantage that a trivial Concentration check means that no one knows the tibbit is doing the casting. Combine it with a cohort/thrall and no one knows that you're not playing the BSF.
Have you considered making the character a pure klutz? I'm thinking Commoner 1/Survivor 5/Fortune's Friend X. Basically you make yourself hard to kill and then start making it so you can Magoo your way through every situation... Oh, I botched hilariously? Welp, it's a good thing I tripped over my shoelaces at just that moment cause it made me stab the villain in the face! Where is Mr. Fluffy?

Hmm... I could sneak one level of Thrallherd into Build #2 someplace. It would lose me a manifester level, but would gain me the equivalent of Leadership + Improved Cohort, so it's like two feats for the price of one. Tempting, tempting. The catch is that feats can be retrained; if I decide I no longer need the cohort, I'm willing to ditch Leadership in favor of a more practical feat. That level of Thrallherd, on the other hand, would sit there weighing me down. Decisions...

As for your build design... Hm. One, it's too many classes. Two, I really dislike Fortune's Friend, particularly the wasted spellcasting advancement in this build. And three, another player would take one look at that build and instantly know that something was up - it has great saves but basically no ability to do anything except not die. I want my cohort to be useful, and I'm frankly not bothered if he becomes a bit expendable.

[gorfnab]

Bard (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284) 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8
If you focus on Inspire Courage (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830.0) you can keep your party very happy with the extra damage.

[Red Fel]

Bard (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284) 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8
If you focus on Inspire Courage (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830.0) you can keep your party very happy with the extra damage.

Interesting, if dip-happy.

Bard seems to be a popular choice for a support cohort!

[Eldest]

Hmm... I could sneak one level of Thrallherd into Build #2 someplace. It would lose me a manifester level, but would gain me the equivalent of Leadership + Improved Cohort, so it's like two feats for the price of one. Tempting, tempting. The catch is that feats can be retrained; if I decide I no longer need the cohort, I'm willing to ditch Leadership in favor of a more practical feat. That level of Thrallherd, on the other hand, would sit there weighing me down. Decisions...

Thrallherd does not weigh you down... it's free minions, one of whom is one level lower than you. You don't even need to bother with mantaining the minions. They just are there, and if they die, meh. No penalty to the score. They are replaced within 24 hours, too.

[Sian]

Beguiler 20

tons of support, not really stepping on anyones toes

[Red Fel]

Thrallherd does not weigh you down... it's free minions, one of whom is one level lower than you. You don't even need to bother with mantaining the minions. They just are there, and if they die, meh. No penalty to the score. They are replaced within 24 hours, too.

Well... Hmm. Let's see. Thrallherd requires Diplomacy 4 ranks, Knowledge (Psionics) 8 ranks, Inquisitor, ML 5, and ability to manifest Mind Link. That basically means I can take a Thrallherd dip after Telepath 5, which would be precisely 6th-level in this build. I suppose I could replace Azure Talent or Midnight Augmentation in the early levels, and swap them into the later open feat slots. It would drop me down from ML 18 to ML 17, but I would still have access to 9th level powers, with 31 powers known and 250 PP/day. It would give me, as mentioned, the equivalent of Leadership + Improved Cohort, without the drama of losing Leadership score because those idiot minions keep getting themselves killed. I couldn't train it away, but then, I have so many floating feats left that it's hardly a problem. Further, my Leadership Score, at the outset, would be character level + Cha modifier + Thrallherd level, or 7+Cha, (so at least a 5th level Cohort,) with a Cohort level max of character level -1 (at level 6, 5), so unless I have a Cha penalty, I'm basically guaranteed that my Cohort will be precisely one level lower than my character at all times.

Admittedly, it wouldn't come into effect until level 6, but that's when Leadership comes into effect anyway, so it's hardly a penalty.

As creepy as it is to just attract minions like that... I like it. I really like it.


Beguiler 20

tons of support, not really stepping on anyones toes

Hmm... Interesting. Spontaneous casting, no ASF in light armor, useful trapfinding, ability to overcome SR, bonus metamagic feats, and that neat flanking trick. Do like. And it's Int-based, so good skill usage, with a Cha-supplement, so good face skills.

It's a very nice alternative to Bard, I think. The spell list is limited, which is nice (in my opinion), but it lacks some of the Bard's party-boosting abilities. I would lean towards the Bard over this, for a support character, but if we already had a Bard and a Cleric, this has a lot of merit to it.

[Drachasor]

That image is a bit priceless. Unfortunately, it risks an early reveal - why would this half-orc fighter take such good care of this cat if he seems so unhappy doing so? I do like the idea of having the mildly snarky, thoroughly put-upon cohort, however.

"Shall I clean your litterbox, sir?"
"Meow."
"... Again?"
"MEOW."
"... sigh."

Base his personality off Zathras (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtMP2EiRH0Y). Though I think you should do this regardless of what class you go with.

[Eldest]

Well... Hmm. Let's see. Thrallherd requires Diplomacy 4 ranks, Knowledge (Psionics) 8 ranks, Inquisitor, ML 5, and ability to manifest Mind Link. That basically means I can take a Thrallherd dip after Telepath 5, which would be precisely 6th-level in this build. I suppose I could replace Azure Talent or Midnight Augmentation in the early levels, and swap them into the later open feat slots. It would drop me down from ML 18 to ML 17, but I would still have access to 9th level powers, with 31 powers known and 250 PP/day. It would give me, as mentioned, the equivalent of Leadership + Improved Cohort, without the drama of losing Leadership score because those idiot minions keep getting themselves killed. I couldn't train it away, but then, I have so many floating feats left that it's hardly a problem. Further, my Leadership Score, at the outset, would be character level + Cha modifier + Thrallherd level, or 7+Cha, (so at least a 5th level Cohort,) with a Cohort level max of character level -1 (at level 6, 5), so unless I have a Cha penalty, I'm basically guaranteed that my Cohort will be precisely one level lower than my character at all times.

Admittedly, it wouldn't come into effect until level 6, but that's when Leadership comes into effect anyway, so it's hardly a penalty.

As creepy as it is to just attract minions like that... I like it. I really like it.

Oh, sure, it's creepy. I actually had a plan to play as a Tibbet Psion/Thrallherd for a while in an evil game, with my cohort being (if it's low level) my "character" or (if it's very high level) my "host" (just say I'm using true mind switch and astral seed to make sure every time I die I come back) when it's actually the cat.

[Rama]

An artificer could be amusing. Particularly if he started building homunculi shaped like your tibbit cat form.

[Red Fel]

Base his personality off Zathras (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtMP2EiRH0Y). Though I think you should do this regardless of what class you go with.

Nice B5 ref there!

Okay. So, note to self: If dumb minion, go with Zathras. If smart minion, go with Marvin or Jeeves. If unsympathetic minion, go with C3P0. I can dig it.


Oh, sure, it's creepy. I actually had a plan to play as a Tibbet Psion/Thrallherd for a while in an evil game, with my cohort being (if it's low level) my "character" or (if it's very high level) my "host" (just say I'm using true mind switch and astral seed to make sure every time I die I come back) when it's actually the cat.

Well, hopefully I shall have the chance to steal your plan bring such a character to life! Just... slightly less evil. Only slightly.


An artificer could be amusing. Particularly if he started building homunculi shaped like your tibbit cat form.

I am... confused and disturbed by this imagery. Elaborate?

[Rama]

Just an idle amusing thought (to me anyway); not very optimal.

Make a homunculus (or two, or three) shaped like a cat. Disguise it so it looks more like a real cat, and have it hang around. That way (a) the tibbit is further hidden in that there's more than one cat, and (b) he can easily leave to do tibbit-things and not be missed by the rest of the group - since there's other 'kitties', it would be easier for his absence to be overlooked.

[Red Fel]

Just an idle amusing thought (to me anyway); not very optimal.

Make a homunculus (or two, or three) shaped like a cat. Disguise it so it looks more like a real cat, and have it hang around. That way (a) the tibbit is further hidden in that there's more than one cat, and (b) he can easily leave to do tibbit-things and not be missed by the rest of the group - since there's other 'kitties', it would be easier for his absence to be overlooked.

Hmm... I don't know much about Artificer or crafting homunculi, but it has some merit. My concern is that it comes across as fairly useless to the party except for item crafting. As a cohort, that's fine, but I'd have a tough time tricking other players into believing that this is the character, and not merely a cohort. Remember that part of the purpose of this character is misdirection.

[Drachasor]

Nice B5 ref there!

Okay. So, note to self: If dumb minion, go with Zathras. If smart minion, go with Marvin or Jeeves. If unsympathetic minion, go with C3P0. I can dig it.

Zathras was smart. The difference between Zathras and Jeeves is more about social class than anything else. Well, and one lived inside a giant supertech machine the size of a planet.

[Red Fel]

Zathras was smart. The difference between Zathras and Jeeves is more about social class than anything else. Well, and one lived inside a giant supertech machine the size of a planet.

Zathras was smart, but his demeanor could easily be slapped onto a less intelligent minion. It's not hard to imagine a miserable half-orc mumbling about how his life is endless suffering while cleaning up after kitty. By contrast, Jeeves is notoriously witty and snarky; it's hard to imagine a large, thick-headed brute muttering snide British-isms in a snooty accent.

Still, point taken.

[Menzath]

Hmm as far as having a great utility Aid type minion I would actually go with a Dragon Fire Adept, With the least invocations Draconic knowledge and Magic insight those alone are a great aid to the party. Stack up draconic feats for more skill bonus', and to help the party take a few draconic Aura's early on for great party buffs.

For the most Cat related flavor be a human and take draconic senses for Cat-like eyes(Yeah pesky draconic heritage. Maybe do Brass dragon to play off the yellowing of skin too.), and at level 3 take draconic aura-Senses for bonus to listen spot, and most importantly initiative for the party.
And never, ever EVER use the breath weapon.

[avr]

The obvious problem with an elven bard cohort is that it will go down if a monster sneezes in its direction. Low con, d6 HD, less HD than other characters because it's a cohort. An early reveal because your cohort died is a definite possibility.

Here's another idea: a protector of the small, a defender of the weak, a Crusader! Warforged if that's not too interesting in your world, human otherwise. A couple of ranks in Handle Animal and Heal, and your tibbit is just one of a number of animals like birds with broken wings etc that are always around the crusader. Maybe a one level druid or cleric dip if human to use healing magic items.

White Raven and Devoted Spirit abilities are handy at all levels, and a Crusader is just harder to put down than other characters.

[One Step Two]

Okay, since the aim is misdirection:

Using the Psikitty

Human Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/ Factotum 5.

Your cohort tell's the party they're an Arcane Dilettante, and you're the "Familiar". Bluff as being a Arcane-tricksterish build.

For the most part, they're going to use lots of bluff, and spellcraft.
Using Mindlink every time you use a power, they're going to spend their turn making the necessary bluff checks to pretend they are casting a spell. But aside from that, they have enough tricks up their sleeves to keep being an asset to the party.

[Red Fel]

Hmm as far as having a great utility Aid type minion I would actually go with a Dragon Fire Adept, With the least invocations Draconic knowledge and Magic insight those alone are a great aid to the party. Stack up draconic feats for more skill bonus', and to help the party take a few draconic Aura's early on for great party buffs.

For the most Cat related flavor be a human and take draconic senses for Cat-like eyes(Yeah pesky draconic heritage. Maybe do Brass dragon to play off the yellowing of skin too.), and at level 3 take draconic aura-Senses for bonus to listen spot, and most importantly initiative for the party.
And never, ever EVER use the breath weapon.

Hmm... I don't know much about DFAs. That said, the class features are... Hmm. Dragontouched as a bonus feat is cute. Breath weapon is... I generally don't like those as much. Increasing natural armor is okay. DR isn't terrible. I guess it boils down to the invocations. Draconic Knowledge and Magic Insight are okay, but for me, support doesn't just mean being able to make skill checks or identify items - it means being able to support the party in combat, offer them boosts and the like. DFA's poor BAB and lack of armor proficiency means it's no front-line fighter, and its breath weapon isn't well suited to combat where I might hit allies. Now, Greater and Dark invocations have some merit, but this class is neither a party buffer nor a massive blaster. It would basically sit out most combat sessions, which is a bit of a shame.

Mildly useful out of combat, but I don't think I'm feeling this one.


The obvious problem with an elven bard cohort is that it will go down if a monster sneezes in its direction. Low con, d6 HD, less HD than other characters because it's a cohort. An early reveal because your cohort died is a definite possibility.

Here's another idea: a protector of the small, a defender of the weak, a Crusader! Warforged if that's not too interesting in your world, human otherwise. A couple of ranks in Handle Animal and Heal, and your tibbit is just one of a number of animals like birds with broken wings etc that are always around the crusader. Maybe a one level druid or cleric dip if human to use healing magic items.

White Raven and Devoted Spirit abilities are handy at all levels, and a Crusader is just harder to put down than other characters.

I'd like to avoid Warforged; it draws too much attention and I want this cohort to be very vanilla. Now, I love love love ToB, as I've often stated, but my concern is just how easily a ToB class, even Crusader, can overshadow a standard melee class, such as Fighter or Rogue. Consider party composition - a party will either have a basic melee class, such as Fighter, an awesome melee class, such as Warblade, or no melee class. If they have a basic melee class, a Crusader would overshadow him, which I don't want my cohort to do. If they have an awesome melee class, a Crusader might be redundant. And if they have no melee class, a Crusader would become the default melee, and be too indispensable.

As sorely tempted as I am, I'm more than a bit reluctant to unleash that level of awesome on a party as my cohort.

That said... If I end up going with one of the non-Psi kitty builds, I could certainly flavor a simpler ToB build, perhaps as the kitty's student, in exchange for keeping the secret... Hmm. Need to think about this.


Okay, since the aim is misdirection:

Using the Psikitty

Human Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/ Factotum 5.

Your cohort tell's the party they're an Arcane Dilettante, and you're the "Familiar". Bluff as being a Arcane-tricksterish build.

For the most part, they're going to use lots of bluff, and spellcraft.
Using Mindlink every time you use a power, they're going to spend their turn making the necessary bluff checks to pretend they are casting a spell. But aside from that, they have enough tricks up their sleeves to keep being an asset to the party.

... Huh. That's... Huh. Wow. That's... Actually really neat. Factotum has good Int use, and Arcane Focus Chameleon can use that, and Arcane Dilettante and Arcane Focus and then Cunning Insight and... Huh.

That's actually quite nifty. It's not party support, but it's a character who is individually useful on a day to day basis, has a moderate BAB, decent proficiencies, can do all sorts of things... And can con the party into thinking he's the character.

It would take some tweaking, but I really like it. And it's definitely not a role that would be redundant in the party, particularly thanks to the Chameleon levels. Very nice!

[One Step Two]

... Huh. That's... Huh. Wow. That's... Actually really neat. Factotum has good Int use, and Arcane Focus Chameleon can use that, and Arcane Dilettante and Arcane Focus and then Cunning Insight and... Huh.

That's actually quite nifty. It's not party support, but it's a character who is individually useful on a day to day basis, has a moderate BAB, decent proficiencies, can do all sorts of things... And can con the party into thinking he's the character.

It would take some tweaking, but I really like it. And it's definitely not a role that would be redundant in the party, particularly thanks to the Chameleon levels. Very nice!

Thanks! Bard entry actually works rather well for Chameleon too if you wanted to be a bit more on the party buff/support side, but Factotum does it better because the character is pure versatility.

The single best part about Chameleon is that it uses a spellbook, and fast progression (relatively speaking) entry to 6th level spells is nothing to sneeze at. Make sure to give them a decent Wis score too, once you get access to Dual Focus, your cohort will be a mini Theurge, and who doesn't love buffs?

Remember to invest in your Cohort's skill points into Skill Tricks like Concealed Casting, swift concentration, and especially False Theurgy. There are times you want to make better use of Action Economy, and you cant afford to let the facade slip!

[Red Fel]

So, what I'm getting is, my cohort should probably be Human, or (if Cleric) Dwarf. (Snooty Elf Butler might also be funny.)

If I'm going for core classes, Bard or Cleric are good solid support choices that can be designed in such a way as to not overshadow the party. If I'm expanding to non-core, Marshal or Factotum/Chameleon are solid options. If we have solid melee representation, a ToB class becomes a good support option.

Any other thoughts?

[Vhaidara]

I support bard. Go for a gnome bard (RSL for counterfear in place of countersong, and you pick up some extra 0s), grab Song of the Heart (+1 to Inspires) at level 3, and grab Inspirational Boost as a first level spell (swift action cast, pumps up next IC by +1). So now you have a +3 Inspire Courage at level 3.

Another reason for gnomes is that they are accepted as crazies. You should have no trouble convincing the party that you are actually the crazy gnome. Also, bonus points if the gnome thinks the cat is a Wendersnaven.

[Red Fel]

A thought recently wriggled itself into my brain, and I'd like some input into how to execute it.

Set aside notions of subterfuge and party support roles and whatnot. Let's change the equation. Suppose the cohort had two defining features:

1- Non-caster combat ability. Melee or ranged permissible.

2- Butler. Total butler. Charming, impeccable, excellent skill rolls and Diplomacy checks. Snooty, witty, and always just-so.

Any thoughts as to how I'd execute it?

[Particle_Man]

A Paladin pledged to the cat as his liege. Trouble is, the jig is up if someone asks the paladin flat out if he is the servant or the master, since I don't think they can lie.

But close to that, maybe Soulborn (LG version) or CW Samurai? Both have the diplomacy skill.

But you want lots of skill points too. So maybe you take the human racial paragon class for 1 level to get diplomacy as a permanent class skill, then take ranger (urban ranger variant) from then on to have a full BAB class that gives 6 skill points per level. Actually the urban ranger could make one heck of a good butler, come to that. Maybe Urban Ranger 1/Human Paragon 1/Urban Ranger X?

[Sam K]

If you want deception, wouldn't it make sense to go with a class that could have a smarter-than-average kitty around?

If you want a fighting type, ranger seems the obvious choice. Your character could pose as an animal companion. You could take this a step further by having a couple of cats around and play the "crazy cat lady" ranger. Ranger isn't a very dominant class, so you're not likely to overshadow anyone in the party, but their skills still make them useful (especially at lower levels). You also get the advantage that you can sneak off every now and then (who will keep track of all the rangers cats anyway?).

For the butler type, how about a support/counterspelling sorcerer? Again, you can pose as a familiari, support and counterspelling is appreciated but not likely to steal the show, and the high charisma could work well with a butler (might be a bit more colorful than your average servant though). Room for funny backgrounds too; the sorcerer could claim he was swore/was geased/lost a bet to serve as a butler to a family until the end of his days, and the entire family was killed, except for their cat. So now he has to serve the cat. Everyone will think he's bonkers, or that his summon familiari ritual went slightly wrong.

[Red Fel]

A Paladin pledged to the cat as his liege. Trouble is, the jig is up if someone asks the paladin flat out if he is the servant or the master, since I don't think they can lie.

But close to that, maybe Soulborn (LG version) or CW Samurai? Both have the diplomacy skill.

As tempting as that might be, and as loyal as a Paladin servant may be, I see them as being more "My Royal Knight" than "My Loyal Crony Minion Tool Servant." I find it hard to visualize a shining paragon of virtue lowering himself to clean the litterbox. (Although I've seen some excellent Paladin executions where he does farm work and other manual labor to be helpful and friendly.)

Also, the chassis itself doesn't impress a lot.

I do like the Cha focus, though... Hmm... Would some kind of Bard-type make a good Butler?


But you want lots of skill points too. So maybe you take the human racial paragon class for 1 level to get diplomacy as a permanent class skill, then take ranger (urban ranger variant) from then on to have a full BAB class that gives 6 skill points per level. Actually the urban ranger could make one heck of a good butler, come to that. Maybe Urban Ranger 1/Human Paragon 1/Urban Ranger X?

Hmm... I like the Urban Ranger as a source of skill points and BAB, but I'm not as big a fan of the UR in terms of flavor. I see an Urban Ranger as more of a bounty hunter, cop or mercenary. I need someone with a cut to his jib and a freshly-pressed tailcoat, metaphorically speaking.


If you want deception, wouldn't it make sense to go with a class that could have a smarter-than-average kitty around?

If you want a fighting type, ranger seems the obvious choice. Your character could pose as an animal companion. You could take this a step further by having a couple of cats around and play the "crazy cat lady" ranger. Ranger isn't a very dominant class, so you're not likely to overshadow anyone in the party, but their skills still make them useful (especially at lower levels). You also get the advantage that you can sneak off every now and then (who will keep track of all the rangers cats anyway?).

All very good points, but see above. If I'm going for a more support role, a Bard or Marshal would probably suit me better; if I'm going for a Butler, I see Rangers as just a bit too... Hmm... Scruffy-looking.


For the butler type, how about a support/counterspelling sorcerer? Again, you can pose as a familiari, support and counterspelling is appreciated but not likely to steal the show, and the high charisma could work well with a butler (might be a bit more colorful than your average servant though). Room for funny backgrounds too; the sorcerer could claim he was swore/was geased/lost a bet to serve as a butler to a family until the end of his days, and the entire family was killed, except for their cat. So now he has to serve the cat. Everyone will think he's bonkers, or that his summon familiari ritual went slightly wrong.

Now, here is an idea. Admittedly, a Sorc has a good amount of potential to overshadow, but by focusing on utility spells instead of pewpewery I can avoid making other players feel bad. True, he's no melee marvel, but Cha focus as you mention is a plus. One problem that I see is that Sorcs get an apalling 2+Int skill points. That's a fairly useless Butler, and that's a problem. But looking at him merely as a charming servant is an option.

Still, I prefer melee-style (or non-casting ranged) if possible, high skill points. Makes me wonder if I should consider a ToB servant. (Hmm. ToButler. I like the sound of it.)

[Menzath]

A thought recently wriggled itself into my brain, and I'd like some input into how to execute it.

Set aside notions of subterfuge and party support roles and whatnot. Let's change the equation. Suppose the cohort had two defining features:

1- Non-caster combat ability. Melee or ranged permissible.

2- Butler. Total butler. Charming, impeccable, excellent skill rolls and Diplomacy checks. Snooty, witty, and always just-so.

Any thoughts as to how I'd execute it?

Sounds like a Job for the Marshal class!
although you may want to go marshal/knight or maybe warblade. Something with better BaB, HD, and maybe light/no armor functionality so that you can fight in your snazzy cloth's to wait on kitty in a moments notice.

[bekeleven]

Sounds like a Job for the Marshal class!
although you may want to go marshal/knight or maybe warblade. Something with better BaB, HD, and maybe light/no armor functionality so that you can fight in your snazzy cloth's to wait on kitty in a moments notice.

Like Dragon Shaman, Marshal hits its power peak at level 1 (maybe 2). Most common use I see in builds is to get charisma twice to skills, but to be fair, the second level does grant BAB, 2 saves, and a major aura (+1 to AC, Saves, or damage).

[Sam K]

All very good points, but see above. If I'm going for a more support role, a Bard or Marshal would probably suit me better; if I'm going for a Butler, I see Rangers as just a bit too... Hmm... Scruffy-looking.

Now, here is an idea. Admittedly, a Sorc has a good amount of potential to overshadow, but by focusing on utility spells instead of pewpewery I can avoid making other players feel bad. True, he's no melee marvel, but Cha focus as you mention is a plus. One problem that I see is that Sorcs get an apalling 2+Int skill points. That's a fairly useless Butler, and that's a problem. But looking at him merely as a charming servant is an option.

Still, I prefer melee-style (or non-casting ranged) if possible, high skill points. Makes me wonder if I should consider a ToB servant. (Hmm. ToButler. I like the sound of it.)

Well, you could imagine the ranger as a brittish empire style explorer: carrying around enough supplies to always make sure there's crumpets and a lump of sugar for 4 o'clock tea. Obviously not a crazy cat lady then, though.

You could get the sorc some int and maybe a level or two of human paragon. That would improve your skill selection somewhat.

Or, if going ToB, swordsage is a good bet. It's not as "main melee" as the others, and it has alot of utility. With stealth skills and shadow hand, he could make the kind of butler who is always there with what you need, when you need it, despite that you could have sworn that he wasn't there a moment ago. Because of wis-synergy he probably wont be the charming butler, but he could be the one with the profound insights. I have a hard time imagining why he would lug around a cat, though. Unless it's part of his philosophy - cat-fu or something :P

Something to consider: if you want a butler image to the cohort, a melee class will have the image somewhat ruined by the fact that he'll have to carry around weapons and armor. A caster (beguiler, sorc or possibly bard) is more likely to uphold the image. Mage hand and unseen servant makes for great butlering, and they can all have a familiari (thanks to obtain familiari feat).

Hexblade and dawnblade could also be used like this I suppose. Familiari gives you a good cover, they are less likely to dominate the party and because they dont get high level arcane spells, and they normally dont work as main melees.

[Red Fel]

Sounds like a Job for the Marshal class!
although you may want to go marshal/knight or maybe warblade. Something with better BaB, HD, and maybe light/no armor functionality so that you can fight in your snazzy cloth's to wait on kitty in a moments notice.

Hmm... I could see a ToB class with a Marshal dip. m (Heh. A Marshal Adept. I kill myself.) Warblade definitely has merit, but what about Crusader or Swordsage? I mean, given that Swordsage is light/no armor already there's a certain merit there. I'd welcome more thoughts on that concept.


Like Dragon Shaman, Marshal hits its power peak at level 1 (maybe 2). Most common use I see in builds is to get charisma twice to skills, but to be fair, the second level does grant BAB, 2 saves, and a major aura (+1 to AC, Saves, or damage).

I agree. I would use Marshal for a dip, not a full build. Admittedly, it's fine for a Cohort - I don't need him to be up-to-snuff with the rest of the party, after all - but if I want people to think the Cohort is the PC, I need to make it convincing. So Marshal is dip-only.


Well, you could imagine the ranger as a brittish empire style explorer: carrying around enough supplies to always make sure there's crumpets and a lump of sugar for 4 o'clock tea. Obviously not a crazy cat lady then, though.

I can definitely see the image you invoke. The gentleman adventurer on safari. "What, ho? Is that a tiger you just bagged? Brilliant! Let's have the manservant skin the hide while we enjoy a bit of a tipple, eh? Bully!" But that's more of a gentleman, not his servant, and I'm going for the latter image. I still don't quite see it fitting.


You could get the sorc some int and maybe a level or two of human paragon. That would improve your skill selection somewhat.

Improve my skill selection, not so much my skill points. Besides, you know what they call a Sorc with Int. A Wizard who didn't get the memo.


Or, if going ToB, swordsage is a good bet. It's not as "main melee" as the others, and it has alot of utility. With stealth skills and shadow hand, he could make the kind of butler who is always there with what you need, when you need it, despite that you could have sworn that he wasn't there a moment ago. Because of wis-synergy he probably wont be the charming butler, but he could be the one with the profound insights. I have a hard time imagining why he would lug around a cat, though. Unless it's part of his philosophy - cat-fu or something :P

Appreciate the Ranma reference, and now you're talking my language. A Swordsage does strike me as someone with a tactic for every eventuality. High Wis means he's always attentive and prepared, and moderate BAB means he won't necessarily out-melee the primary melee.

And he would lug around a cat because all glory to the Hypnotoad Thrallherd.


Something to consider: if you want a butler image to the cohort, a melee class will have the image somewhat ruined by the fact that he'll have to carry around weapons and armor. A caster (beguiler, sorc or possibly bard) is more likely to uphold the image. Mage hand and unseen servant makes for great butlering, and they can all have a familiari (thanks to obtain familiari feat).

This assumes two things.

1: A melee must carry weapons visibly. There are plenty of classes that can use hidden or improvised weapons. I could see a capable Butler causing mayhem with finely polished sharpened silverware or the good China thrown at high speeds, for example. Or one who carries a few small blades in those impeccably-cuffed sleeves.

2: A melee must be armed. An Unarmed Strike Swordsage (or a Monk-type class) can be remarkably effective at combat, without weapons. Sadly, if he gets his suitjacket damaged in a scuffle, it will demonstrate his failures as a Butler.

That said, I could see a caster in the role, as long as it's not a primary caster. Bard, for example, as I've said, shows merit. I could see Beguiler, but I worry that's a little too potent. On the other hand, it has practical abilities, and good skill points, and Int synergy for spells and skills... Hmm. You've got something there.


Hexblade and dawnblade could also be used like this I suppose. Familiari gives you a good cover, they are less likely to dominate the party and because they dont get high level arcane spells, and they normally dont work as main melees.

I developed a distaste for Hexblade once, in a campaign long ago, from which I've not fully recovered. That, and having a familiar and a cat starts to look suspicious. Besides, the servant isn't entitled to a servant of his own.

I'm not familiar with Dawnblade, so I can't speak to that. Are you referring to Duskblade, perchance? I happen to like that class, actually. Quite capable in combat, reasonable spell selection, but poor skills. It'd be more of a bodyguard than a Butler.

[Sam K]

Duskblade, dawnblade, one of those "not much sunshine" bladey fellows :) Duskblade, human, I believe they are int based casters. You'd be getting atleast 4 or 5 skillpoints per level. Not great, but enough for "profession: butler" and some other skills.

The point of a class that can have a familiari isn't that they should have one, it's that you can fake BEING the familiari. No matter how you twist it, the character will have a cat that is a major part of it's style. The cat will not die (hopefully), and will most likely seem smarter and more capable than the average pet. Even if you play it sneaky, people will notice the kitty being around. Acting as a familiari gives you some deniability. Otherwise people will start asking why that 1HD pet manages to survive everything thrown at the party.

For the ranger, a gentleman needs his servant. "Poor lord Farthingsworth, we TOLD him tigers were actually quite adept at stalking, but he claimed he could 'See anything bright orange with black stripes coming a mile away'. By the time we tracked it down, there wasn't even enough left to resurrect. All I can do is follow his last command: 'See to it personally that my cat is taken care of!'"

For my swordsage idea, again, my main concern was that you might need a cover to have the cat around. But there are options, like that the cat is a sacred animal to his fighting school.

Sorc with int is suboptimal, but you dont WANT to be optimized, remember. Im sure there are a couple of sorcerers out there who can actually tie their shoelaces.

But really, bard or beguiler is probably best for caster, swordsage for melee. Not going to dominate the party, still useful in many situations.

[Red Fel]

Duskblade, dawnblade, one of those "not much sunshine" bladey fellows :) Duskblade, human, I believe they are int based casters. You'd be getting atleast 4 or 5 skillpoints per level. Not great, but enough for "profession: butler" and some other skills.

Duskblade has 2+Int skill points. But as you mention, it's an Int-based casting class, so high Int may make up for the 2.


The point of a class that can have a familiari isn't that they should have one, it's that you can fake BEING the familiari. No matter how you twist it, the character will have a cat that is a major part of it's style. The cat will not die (hopefully), and will most likely seem smarter and more capable than the average pet. Even if you play it sneaky, people will notice the kitty being around. Acting as a familiari gives you some deniability. Otherwise people will start asking why that 1HD pet manages to survive everything thrown at the party.

Valid, valid. Admittedly, having a cat could just as easily be explained by wanting a pet or having a mental illness. And cats are surprisingly good at getting out of tricky spots. (Particularly ones that are secretly psionic monstrous humanoids.) The risk with familiar is, quite simply, where does the familiar go? For example, with a Hexblade, there are two ACFs that involve losing the familiar - but they both gain another companion instead. I can't very well ditch a class feature, it feels like a dreadful waste.

Also, the cat might eat it.


For the ranger, a gentleman needs his servant. "Poor lord Farthingsworth, we TOLD him tigers were actually quite adept at stalking, but he claimed he could 'See anything bright orange with black stripes coming a mile away'. By the time we tracked it down, there wasn't even enough left to resurrect. All I can do is follow his last command: 'See to it personally that my cat is taken care of!'"

... Nope, still not feeling it.


For my swordsage idea, again, my main concern was that you might need a cover to have the cat around. But there are options, like that the cat is a sacred animal to his fighting school.

True. And I do like it.


Sorc with int is suboptimal, but you dont WANT to be optimized, remember. Im sure there are a couple of sorcerers out there who can actually tie their shoelaces.

But why tie your shoelaces, when you can simply Prestidigitation?


But really, bard or beguiler is probably best for caster, swordsage for melee. Not going to dominate the party, still useful in many situations.

Agreed.

[Sam K]

You can explain HAVING the kitty any number of ways, but can you explain it surviving everything thrown at the party? Any AoE attack that it doesn't save against (assuming it has evasion) should kill a normal kitty. Not to mention, you are intending to play the PSI-kitty, aren't you? While psionics will let you do non-obvious things, people will notice some wierd stuff happening around the kitty. Acting as a familiari gives you deniability to the other players.

A familiari of a 6th (lowest level for this concept to work because you need leadership) level caster has improved evasion, can share spells, deliver touch spells and can speak with it's master. Plus there are some feats and spells that lets you boost them further. Assuming you don't show your sheet to your party members, you can explain away quite alot of kitty magic (ok, kitty psionics) with that.

Anyway, bard, beguiler and duskblade all have the possibility of getting a familiari through a feat, but doesn't have it by default. That means you can pose as a familiari without having them give up a class feature. Duskblade has the least utility of the three (low skills and combat focused spell-list).

So, bard, beguiler or sword-sage? :smallsmile:

[Vhaidara]

As tempting as that might be, and as loyal as a Paladin servant may be, I see them as being more "My Royal Knight" than "My Loyal Crony Minion Tool Servant." I find it hard to visualize a shining paragon of virtue lowering himself to clean the litterbox. (Although I've seen some excellent Paladin executions where he does farm work and other manual labor to be helpful and friendly.)

I cite the comic this website was founded around.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0404.html
I'm sure some poor bastard ended up doing it.

[Red Fel]

You can explain HAVING the kitty any number of ways, but can you explain it surviving everything thrown at the party? Any AoE attack that it doesn't save against (assuming it has evasion) should kill a normal kitty. Not to mention, you are intending to play the PSI-kitty, aren't you? While psionics will let you do non-obvious things, people will notice some wierd stuff happening around the kitty. Acting as a familiari gives you deniability to the other players.

A familiari of a 6th (lowest level for this concept to work because you need leadership) level caster has improved evasion, can share spells, deliver touch spells and can speak with it's master. Plus there are some feats and spells that lets you boost them further. Assuming you don't show your sheet to your party members, you can explain away quite alot of kitty magic (ok, kitty psionics) with that.

Hmm. Point.

On the other hand, I don't mind the kitty totally weirding them out. After all, it's just a kitty. They'll assume it's a bizarre character feature of the cohort-pretend-PC.


Anyway, bard, beguiler and duskblade all have the possibility of getting a familiari through a feat, but doesn't have it by default. That means you can pose as a familiari without having them give up a class feature. Duskblade has the least utility of the three (low skills and combat focused spell-list).

Also true. But it'd be a bit meta of the players to assume familiar as the reason for the cat, given that PCs don't necessarily make the Knowledge roll that "Some Duskblades can take on a familiar through a ritual." Kind of a weird direction to go.


So, bard, beguiler or sword-sage? :smallsmile:

Hmm. I like Bard in general as a minion. Beguiler is nice if I want to go more caster-y, and I think it could function very well as a bard. Swordsage is excellent if I decide to go full melee, and say to heck with the party utility angle. (Apologies, Avr, I know you suggested ToB earlier and I shot it down. But this was before the sudden and unexpected direction change.)


I cite the comic this website was founded around.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0404.html
I'm sure some poor bastard ended up doing it.

Well cited, sirrah!

[Hangwind]

This is an old thread so I have no idea if anybody cares anymore, but hey, it sounds like fun.

Why not go with a Diplomonster Binder build? Almost never all that useful in actual combat while being able to survive, but totally able to be a face for the party in non-combat situations.

Also, use Bluff checks whenever somebody notices something odd about the kitty to explain it away.

[Uncle Pine]

"You say Wizard is no good for kitty 'cause Wizard STRONG, but Korg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049) like kitty. Korg always wanted familiar. Korg call kitty Fireball."

Seriously, go barbarian wizard all the way with your cohort. A half-orc can also qualify for Fearless Destiny: give it to him to increase his chances to survive! I'm playing such a character right know and it's hilarious, especially because no one suspects that it's Fireball who does all the magic. The only difference is that in my case Kitty is the cohort, while Korg is the character. Plus, my kitty isn't that optimized.

[akward Lad]

If it were me I would run the cohort as a hexblade especially if you plan on running one of the non psion builds
Hexblades have a niche builds as a my-familiar-can-beat-up-your-familiar kind of thing so your other party members might not be so quick to think something is up when the little cat starts tearing out throats.
Hexblades also provide some support by being able to debuff enemies and do well with good charisma to help be a party's face
They can carry themselves in a fight, have some utility spells, and if built to maximize the advantage of their hex, can really help take down large foes

Also it is really rare to have a hexblade out shine any party member for to long

Only down side is with the omen of bad luck vibe that comes with the class it is hard to get the posh butler feel you seem to be going for now