How can I make it OP?

[Darrbear]

I'm playing my first campaign of dnd 3.5e so my DM limited my party and I to players handbook 1 and we aren't allowed to multiclass or prestige class (since we're new players and he doesn't want it to complicated). I have been playing an Archer style rogue up to level 13 and I've realized that it isn't my cup of tea. So, being a nice guy he is letting me reroll and I'm wanting to try out a wizard.

Also in the campaign, we have learned that the final stretch of the campaign he is going to bump us up to epic level and we will be in tiamat's plane. Also, he gave us 160 platinum to buy whatever we want (claiming that we will need it).

So the question is, how can I optimize this character from using only ph1, dmg and magic item compendium?

Any responses are appreciated!

[MeiLeTeng]

I'm playing my first campaign of dnd 3.5e so my DM limited my party and I to players handbook 1 and we aren't allowed to multiclass or prestige class (since we're new players and he doesn't want it to complicated). I have been playing an Archer style rogue up to level 13 and I've realized that it isn't my cup of tea. So, being a nice guy he is letting me reroll and I'm wanting to try out a wizard.

Also in the campaign, we have learned that the final stretch of the campaign he is going to bump us up to epic level and we will be in tiamat's plane. Also, he gave us 160 platinum to buy whatever we want (claiming that we will need it).

So the question is, how can I optimize this character from using only ph1, dmg and magic item compendium?

Any responses are appreciated!

160 platinum is only 1600 gold, which on a 13th level character is next to nothing. So assuming you won't have much in way of gear then, it's not a major deal with a Wizard really just pump the heck out of INT, then CON, as far as optimization I've always been a fan of Treantmonk's handbook (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146876) complete with ratings of spells.

[Darrbear]

My bad, it was 160,000 platinum. (Sorry, typo)
Although he said that he isn't going to worry much about the cost, and we can basically have anything from those 3 books.

[Emperor Tippy]

Why do you want to make an overpowered wizard when its pretty much your first time playing the game for your entire group?

[Darrbear]

Why do you want to make an overpowered wizard when its pretty much your first time playing the game for your entire group?

I guess "OP" wasn't the right term for me to use.
I guess what I'm asking is "how do I make a successful wizard with the resources I have available so that I can feel like I make an impact. Like the party's ranger that bosses out every night"

[OldTrees1]

I guess "OP" wasn't the right term for me to use.
I guess what I'm asking is "how do I make a successful wizard with the resources I have available so that I can feel like I make an impact. Like the party's ranger that bosses out every night"

Memorize spells:smalltongue:
Just select spells you like and then cast them during the session. You would be surprised at the high optimization floor of a Wizard.

[ryu]

Though I would give you one word of advice. Damage is the least efficient of the things you can do with your turn. I won't offer specific spells so you still get to experience feeling like a young-blooded, bright-eyed wizard, but I will say that at low levels you'll be much more efficacious supporting allies or limiting the options of enemies.

[eggynack]

Wizards can do just about anything, and take on any role, and still be reasonably effective, and by reasonably effective, I mean incredibly effective, and also effective at a million other things at the same time. So, the question isn't, "How do I make a wizard powerful." It's, "What do I want out of the wizard?" So, what kinda thing do you want to do?

[Darrbear]

Wizards can do just about anything, and take on any role, and still be reasonably effective, and by reasonably effective, I mean incredibly effective, and also effective at a million other things at the same time. So, the question isn't, "How do I make a wizard powerful." It's, "What do I want out of the wizard?" So, what kinda thing do you want to do?

I read the treantmonks handbook and I was very interested in the "buff and debuff" playstyle.
My worry is that I will commit to that playstyle and then it turns out that we fight tons of creatures that my debuffs have little to no effect on :/
And my DM keeps stressing to "think outside of the box" so I'm trying to get creative with it :3

[Kelb_Panthera]

My bad, it was 160,000 platinum. (Sorry, typo)
Although he said that he isn't going to worry much about the cost, and we can basically have anything from those 3 books.

From way below wealth by level (WBL) to way above. That's 1.6 million gp. Perhaps you mean 160,000gp which should be about right for level 13 WBL?

In any case, Treantmonk's guide (linked above) is a really solid guide. I don't recall if he covered the fact that a wizard need not prepare his an entire spell load out all at once. It is often prudent to leave several spell slots open for preparing during the day as new situations arise. As long as you have 15 minutes or more to overcome an obstacle and have an appropriate spell in your book, you can prepare it in a slot you left open at the beginning of the day. You can prepare up to 1/4 of your total allotment of spells this way in that 15 minutes.

It's an all to often overlooked bit of the wizard's preparation mechanics and a very useful one.

[ryu]

I read the treantmonks handbook and I was very interested in the "buff and debuff" playstyle.
My worry is that I will commit to that playstyle and then it turns out that we fight tons of creatures that my debuffs have little to no effect on :/
And my DM keeps stressing to "think outside of the box" so I'm trying to get creative with it :3

Lots of critters to fight means lots of weaklings. The simplest way of maximizing your effect with minimal spells in that type of combat is using battlefield control spells to split the horde into manageable chunks for your party to curbstomp. Conjuration school is kinda ideal for this although there are other options.

[Darrbear]

Lots of critters to fight means lots of weaklings. The simplest way of maximizing your effect with minimal spells in that type of combat is using battlefield control spells to split the horde into manageable chunks for your party to curbstomp. Conjuration school is kinda ideal for this although there are other options.

Let me specify. When I said "tons of creatures" what I meant was multiple encounters where all of the 1-6 opponents are resistant to my buff/debuff playstyle.

He has clarified that dragons will be our main opponents. So I want a sure-fire way to be effective

[ryu]

Let me specify. When I said "tons of creatures" what I meant was multiple encounters where all of the 1-6 opponents are resistant to my buff/debuff playstyle.

He has clarified that dragons will be our main opponents. So I want a sure-fire way to be effective

Dragons eh? What level are you expecting to face them at and how much silliness are you willing to use? Wizards have some of the funniest methods for doing horrible, semi-unstoppable things to the poor lizards at low levels.

[XmonkTad]

I read the treantmonks handbook and I was very interested in the "buff and debuff" playstyle.
My worry is that I will commit to that playstyle and then it turns out that we fight tons of creatures that my debuffs have little to no effect on :/
And my DM keeps stressing to "think outside of the box" so I'm trying to get creative with it :3

For getting creative with a wizard, your go to schools are illusion and enchantment. Illusions take the form of whatever you want, and a little preparation goes a long way. Enchantment really shines when you give commands that have fun consequences.

Of course, those are the two schools most commonly resisted by enemies. Undead and constructs don't care about those schools at all and when things get true seeing and mind blank the utility of both schools drops without splat support.

Conjuration is good for general powerful wizardry, but look at the rest of your party. If you don't have a cleric, your party will thank you for abjurations. If your party has no scout (a rogue or druid) then you want divinations. If your party lacks a beatstick, transmutation gives you beatsticks. Wizards can do anything, so do what's needed!

[Darrbear]

Dragons eh? What level are you expecting to face them at and how much silliness are you willing to use? Wizards have some of the funniest methods for doing horrible, semi-unstoppable things to the poor lizards at low levels.

He is going to jump us up to epic levels and send us into tiamat's plane.

I'm willing to do anything to get the job done, give me your craziest ideas ;p

[ryu]

He is going to jump us up to epic levels and send us into tiamat's plane.

I'm willing to do anything to get the job done, give me your craziest ideas ;p

That was... Unexpected. Okay you are now dealing with the prospect of facing a being of deific power with epic level party. What is the makeup of your party going to be and how competent do you expect the DM to run old Five-Head? These are serious questions which will have incredible effect on how far you need to go.

[Darrbear]

That was... Unexpected. Okay you are now dealing with the prospect of facing a being of deific power with epic level party. What is the makeup of your party going to be and how competent do you expect the DM to run old Five-Head? These are serious questions which will have incredible effect on how far you need to go.

We have every class from ph1 excluding a rogue and bard. The ranger is 2w fighter so lots of melee.
And yes, he said that we will either fight tiamat or his general as the final boss. O.o

[eggynack]

That was... Unexpected.
Yeah, it was a bit of a wham line. I was considering making a post about how you need to target varied defenses with spells, and maybe something about metamagic, but now this is that other thread about ridiculous super-planning and epic magic. Treantmonk can't help you now.

[ryu]

Wizard druid AND cleric? Okay this is possible. The real trick now is painting a picture of not just what you're fighting, but how the creature will be run. A deity run to capacity and played to the hilt is significantly more terrifying than a deity as defined to act in combat by D&D fluff. I have no idea if I can just be simple with you or if we're going to have to get to the optimization equivalent of explaining quantum mechanics.

[Darrbear]

Wizard druid AND cleric? Okay this is possible. The real trick now is painting a picture of not just what you're fighting, but how the creature will be run. A deity run to capacity and played to the hilt is significantly more terrifying than a deity as defined to act in combat by D&D fluff. I have no idea if I can just be simple with you or if we're going to have to get to the optimization equivalent of explaining quantum mechanics.

Well it's my party's first campaign and the DM always fluffs, so simple will suffice

[ryu]

Okay is epic spellcasting aloud or not? If so it should be a fairly simple matter of creating an absurdly powerful spell by those rules, and using various rules and loopholes to reduce necessary casting time and cost. If not we need to use fairly competent high level caster combo of blasting the ever-loving hell out of the thing with as much irresistible damage in as little time as possible. For example has anyone ever shown you the mailman?

[Darrbear]

Okay is epic spellcasting aloud or not? If so it should be a fairly simple matter of creating an absurdly powerful spell by those rules, and using various rules and loopholes to reduce necessary casting time and cost. If not we need to use fairly competent high level caster combo of blasting the ever-loving hell out of the thing with as much irresistible damage in as little time as possible. For example has anyone ever shown you the mailman?

The 4 books allowed are ph1, dmg, mic and epic level handbook.
And no, I have heard of this mailman figure :p

[ryu]

Basically look up conjuration for orb of force, look up metamagics like empower, maximize, twin, quicken, and other things of that sort, and combine the pieces to just nuke things dead immediately. You may also want to look up orb of fire from the same school and searing spell. Just in case you have to deal with something somehow resistant to non magical orbs of force propelled directly at their faces.

[TuggyNE]

Okay is epic spellcasting aloud or not?

Sonic damage is OP.

[Kelb_Panthera]

For getting creative with a wizard, your go to schools are illusion and enchantment. Illusions take the form of whatever you want, and a little preparation goes a long way. Enchantment really shines when you give commands that have fun consequences.

Of course, those are the two schools most commonly resisted by enemies. Undead and constructs don't care about those schools at all and when things get true seeing and mind blank the utility of both schools drops without splat support.

Conjuration is good for general powerful wizardry, but look at the rest of your party. If you don't have a cleric, your party will thank you for abjurations. If your party has no scout (a rogue or druid) then you want divinations. If your party lacks a beatstick, transmutation gives you beatsticks. Wizards can do anything, so do what's needed!

I just don't get why that particular bit of misinformation persists so doggedly. The good illusion spells don't give a flying pig's tail about immunity to mind-affecting.

Only the pattern and phantasm subschools are mind-affecting and there are no real gems in either. The bread-and-butter illusions, the X image line, are figments and the schools defensive buffs are mostly glammers. None of them care a whit about mind-affecting immunity and they're marvelously effective against mindless creatures who are unable to question the reality of what they see.

[Gamereaper]

He has clarified that dragons will be our main opponents. So I want a sure-fire way to be effective

HAHAHAHAHA! XD

I GOT IT!

Work on penetrating spell resistance and get spells that add penalties to DEX.

Touch of Fatigue, Ray of Exhaustion, Waves Of Exhaustion, Waves Of Fatigue.

Find a way someone else can do DEX Damage and the mean ol' dragons will collapse in a helpless state. XD


If you can do up to 10 (15 to be safe) damage to DEX, you guys will be fine.

Just be sure to have them do the DEX damage AFTER you penalize the dragons.

[ryu]

HAHAHAHAHA! XD

I GOT IT!

Work on penetrating spell resistance and get spells that add penalties to DEX.

Touch of Fatigue, Ray of Exhaustion, Waves Of Exhaustion, Waves Of Fatigue.

Find a way someone else can do DEX Damage and the mean ol' dragons will collapse in a helpless state. XD


If you can do up to 10 (15 to be safe) damage to DEX, you guys will be fine.

Just be sure to have them do the DEX damage AFTER you penalize the dragons.

You do realize he's fighting old Tiamat right?

[eggynack]

You do realize he's fighting old Tiamat right?
Who cares? A good old fashioned shivering touch should work just fine. Dragon, meet dragon killer. Fwah ha hwa ha hwa.

[AMFV]

Who cares? A good old fashioned shivering touch should work just fine. Dragon, meet dragon killer. Fwah ha hwa ha hwa.

Exactly, there's no reason that an epic level dragon with an intelligence in the thirties could have predicted his, our victory is assured.

[eggynack]

Exactly, there's no reason that an epic level dragon with an intelligence in the thirties could have predicted his, our victory is assured.
Well, I for one couldn't possibly imagine a single defense that could exist for this so called goddess of the dragons against the almighty force of shivering touch. So sure am I of shivering touch's inevitable triumph that I shan't even check to make sure that Tiamat isn't immune to ability damage as a result of divine immunities. Such is the nature of my confidence.

[Bullet06320]

if he's allowing dmg, ask about arcmage prestige class for the bump in levels to epic, cant go wrong there for most wizard builds
conjuration specialist is my go to school for wizards personally or if im allowed a necromancer, I have been banned from playing them in certain groups
and at epic level, being able to summon critters that can beat down dragons is possible

[AMFV]

if he's allowing dmg, ask about arcmage prestige class for the bump in levels to epic, cant go wrong there for most wizard builds
conjuration specialist is my go to school for wizards personally or if im allowed a necromancer, I have been banned from playing them in certain groups
and at epic level, being able to summon critters that can beat down dragons is possible

But summoning critters that can beat down Tiamat is probably not.

[Bullet06320]

lol, tru, but summoned cannon fodder helps