[VtM 20th Anniversary] Help with "Optimization"

[Tokuhara]

I know that, as it is, VtM isn't designed for powergamers and more for the interactive story. However, I am taking a stance and wanting to play an "optimized" PC for the sake of change.

Here's my definition of Optimization: Not the 3.5 definition, revolving around playing God, but a more generalized form of excelling at your "profession," whether that's kicking skulls in or schmoozing like a boss, you are defined by your skill in this talent.

Now, this is a mostly social game with us having use of the V20 Rulebook and the respective Clanbooks. This is a Camarilla city with a noticeable Anarch presence. Unbondable is banned outright, so no "Setite Bartender" (Unbondable+Addictive Blood).

So here's my question: how can I build the "ultimate" socialite, who can truly play to the local populous to be "that guy" that everyone is just drawn to?

[CombatOwl]

I know that, as it is, VtM isn't designed for powergamers and more for the interactive story. However, I am taking a stance and wanting to play an "optimized" PC for the sake of change.

Here's my definition of Optimization: Not the 3.5 definition, revolving around playing God, but a more generalized form of excelling at your "profession," whether that's kicking skulls in or schmoozing like a boss, you are defined by your skill in this talent.

Now, this is a mostly social game with us having use of the V20 Rulebook and the respective Clanbooks. This is a Camarilla city with a noticeable Anarch presence. Unbondable is banned outright, so no "Setite Bartender" (Unbondable+Addictive Blood).

So here's my question: how can I build the "ultimate" socialite, who can truly play to the local populous to be "that guy" that everyone is just drawn to?

Since you're a vampire, crank up your social attribute of choice to 5, advance your social skill of choice to 3 with your skill points, fill out the last two with freebie points. Gives you 10 dice in a social test of your choice. Specialize in your social test of choice. Take aptitude for the social skill of choice, letting you drop the difficulty a bit.

[Tokuhara]

Since you're a vampire, crank up your social attribute of choice to 5, advance your social skill of choice to 3 with your skill points, fill out the last two with freebie points. Gives you 10 dice in a social test of your choice. Specialize in your social test of choice. Take aptitude for the social skill of choice, letting you drop the difficulty a bit.

So two major questions:

1. What social test would be the most "effective" as a "blanket check" to spec in?

2. My plan is a Ventrue Anarch (Taking Additional Discipline for Animalism, thus completing the Holy Social Trinity of Dom/Pres/Ani) who was a part of the Boy's Club and went Anarch because he was snubbed by his clanmates. How good would this clan/discipline choice be?

[CombatOwl]

1. What social test would be the most "effective" as a "blanket check" to spec in?

I like manipulation + subterfuge, but leadership has promise if you invest background points in "people".


2. My plan is a Ventrue Anarch (Taking Additional Discipline for Animalism, thus completing the Holy Social Trinity of Dom/Pres/Ani)

Screw animalism. Take dementation and the derangement that comes with it.


who was a part of the Boy's Club and went Anarch because he was snubbed by his clanmates. How good would this clan/discipline choice be?

Ventrue without fortitude is asking for a shotgun in the back.

[McStabbington]

Well, the important thing to remember with VtM is that optimization is more a matter of ease than a matter of possibility. If you want to build the world's most avuncular Gangrel, you can. It will just cost you more points to do so than it would if you were, say, a Toreador.

So with that in mind, the general tips to building the ultimate socialite are pretty simple: make choices that make being sociable easier rather than harder. Social stats should be at minimum secondary, and probably primary. Most of the social skills like empathy and intimidate are in the talents column. Pick that as your primary, so that you can put more initial points into it. Be sure to stack the initial points into those social stats, so that your freebie points are buying the fourth dot and specialization rather than using your initial points elsewhere and then building up your social skills with limited freebie points.

And finally, some Clans are more sociable than others. Toreador, Ventrue, Lasombra tend to do better at social skills than Assamites or Nosferatu or Gangrel, because they get free points in the Presence, Dominate and Auspex disciplines that get you the most bang for your social buck. Malkavians can be really social for the same reason, but their Clan weakness, if chosen poorly, can throw that all away.

The key to remember is an optimized character in WoD is about ease, rather than possibility. Being a Nosferatu or Tzimisce that's super popular isn't impossible; it's not like DnD, where a fighter can't learn spells unless he multi-classes into another class that does have them. In point of fact, it can be very fun to play against type. It's just harder to make one as garrulous as your stereotypical Toreador because of the initial point spreads.

[Tokuhara]

@ Combat Owl:

1. Intimidation, Subterfuge, and Leadership seem to be the "top 3" that are around, with Animalism's exclusive use of Animal Ken.

2. Well, ST has it set up so Dementation is nigh-on impossible to get at character creation within the houserules. Hence my decision of Animalism. That, and I could spend time and get an Attack Dog ghoul

3. Unfortunately, the Ventrue of this city are wimps and prefer to throw epithets in your general direction instead of actually being Ventrue

@ McStabbington

Well, the plan is to have manipulation, appearance, and charisma as my big scores, grabbing the 4 I mentioned, and getting as massive of Resources and as powerful a retainer as possible, because I don't fight. I schmooze. I lick boots. I occasionally pay people off. But I'm not a meathead who charges in and beats my enemies with a golf trophy. I play the game as the game should be played: like Go, not Chess.

And I know that any clan can be anything, just some are better than others. Hence my choice of Ventrue. My plan is to utilize both skills and disciplines to get my way, regardless of who gets hurt in the process. Snooty Playboy! AWAY!!!

[Tokuhara]

And here's a question: Would the Anarch Playboy Ventrue and the Anarch Metal Singer Toreador be different overall skill sets?

[McStabbington]

Contacts is also an extremely useful background for a schmoozer. IRL, there are professionals like attorneys who do absolutely nothing but refer potential clients to other attorneys, and they make their living on the finders fees that come with that. You could, in theory, do something similar: no one dares kill you because you're the guy who can find somebody to help for any reason, and your rates are pretty modest.

That's actually pretty close to how most Nosferatu manage to live for so long, although they tend to focus more on knowing things as opposed to knowing people.

[Tokuhara]

Contacts is also an extremely useful background for a schmoozer. IRL, there are professionals like attorneys who do absolutely nothing but refer potential clients to other attorneys, and they make their living on the finders fees that come with that. You could, in theory, do something similar: no one dares kill you because you're the guy who can find somebody to help for any reason, and your rates are pretty modest.

That's actually pretty close to how most Nosferatu manage to live for so long, although they tend to focus more on knowing things as opposed to knowing people.

So basically, I make myself indispensable. The "Oh Sure. You COULD kill me, but then who'll keep your private security stocked?"

[CombatOwl]

1. Intimidation, Subterfuge, and Leadership seem to be the "top 3" that are around, with Animalism's exclusive use of Animal Ken.

I'd say that's a fair estimation. Though still not sure why you want animal ken and animalism on an optimized social ventrue.


2. Well, ST has it set up so Dementation is nigh-on impossible to get at character creation within the houserules. Hence my decision of Animalism. That, and I could spend time and get an Attack Dog ghoul

A ghoul without hands is really just half a ghoul. Never saw the point in animal ghouls. They can't do much--they're worse in a fight than a human with a shotgun (or grenades), they are easily distracted, and can't even do your laundry or make a trip to the bank.


3. Unfortunately, the Ventrue of this city are wimps and prefer to throw epithets in your general direction instead of actually being Ventrue

Hardly deserve the name then. The last one I played forced a sabbat pack to teach him the vaulderie, broke his blood bonds, killed his sire, successfully blamed it on the ventrue primogen (thereby getting him killed), extracted a boon from the prince, traded that for the position of scourge, and abused the position to bind a large group of caitiff "off the books" for use in executing his political enemies. The game ended not long after, sadly.

Needless to say, fortitude and domination were his thing, with a side order of celerity and potence.

[The Glyphstone]

A ghoul without hands is really just half a ghoul. Never saw the point in animal ghouls. They can't do much--they're worse in a fight than a human with a shotgun (or grenades), they are easily distracted, and can't even do your laundry or make a trip to the bank.
.

Animal ghouls make excellent disposable shock troops if you really need something dead - they have less damage output than a shotgun, but more staying power. They're immune to Presence and Dominate, so the only way to shut them down outside direct violence is to also have Animalism of your own. Plus, a dozen dogs are far easier to acquire (and to cover up the deaths of afterwards) than a dozen humans, or even half a dozen humans. Obfuscate doesn't always work right on them, so if you pair them with human ghouls trained to pick up the signs, they can be a good addition to your guard forces.

[Chen]

For social skills don't forget about Empathy. It's only needed for Entrancement, but it's extremely good for a social character.

[Tokuhara]

So I decided to do Manipulation 5/Subterfuge 5/Specialization: Charm for my main skill of expertise (because logically, Charming people with words and dashing good looks hasn't evolved very much in the last 200 years)

[Need_A_Life]

The Presence discipline is easily the best for social optimization. Auspex is a close second as it lets you gather more information quickly and effortlessly, which will help fuel that "For everything I let slip, I know a dozen more dark secrets" vibe that makes people wary of taking you on.
Empathy is, for much the same reason, invaluable. Subterfuge is your own defence against letting too much slip, while Intimidation is useful simply because, well... you've got Dread Gaze, right?

Other things is...

A single background dot, will let you learn three Sabbat rites (and leave some interesting questions to answer in your backstory). The Vaulderie is a communal ritual that shatters Blood Bonds, never fades and allows multiple bonds.
Don't know what to spend background dots on? Well, while Resources and Generation often hold great appeal, you can never have too many Contacts dots. Forget about the half-a-dozen "major" contacts and consider how you can roll Contacts (dif. 7, I believe) as often as you want to go "Hey, I know a guy" (or, better yet, "that guy"). All those expensive security systems doesn't really do much, if you know where the janitor lives and get an access card, now does it?
If you plan on diablerizing people, spend a few freebie points on Hidden Diablerie. Oh, and if you're not yourself a Tremere, never trust them. If you are a Tremere, don't trust them either, but be a bit more subtle about it.
Know and love the frenzy triggers. Doesn't matter how much of a social badass someone is, frenzying in the wrong place at the wrong time will get them put down (Toreadors taunting someone into a frenzy and then using Celerity to get out of reach happens). Oh, and don't leave home without a Self-Control/Instinct rating of less than 4.
When you go stir up trouble, don't be a fool. Dominate can create obedient suicide bombers, can get you access to SWAT gear and vehicles and, yes, some excellent specimens for the joys of ghouldom.

[BWR]

A ghoul without hands is really just half a ghoul. Never saw the point in animal ghouls. They can't do much--they're worse in a fight than a human with a shotgun (or grenades), they are easily distracted, and can't even do your laundry or make a trip to the bank.

You wouldn't say that if you'd met Mumle, the ghouled pigeon with a potence of 1. Feeding him was dangerous without Fortitude.
Or the highly intelligent humongous wolf (about the size of a bear) I inherited that taught me Disciplines.