Casting Ray spells on yourself?

[Yogibear41]

Is there anything stopping you from casting ray spells on yourself? Would you need to make an attack roll or would you just auto hit?

[Stux]

Is there anything stopping you from casting ray spells on yourself? Would you need to make an attack roll or would you just auto hit?

Rays are attacks and attacks are explicitly only made against opponents, so by RAW I don't think you can.

Ask your DM though, it seems like something it would be reasonable to do. Unless this is part of some broken combination of effects.

[Yogibear41]

Disrupt undead, heals deathless so a deathless sorcerer or wizard could use it as pseudo cure light wounds spell on himself.

[Raezeman]

if i was your DM, i would be inclined to say: yeah, casting a ray on yourself is like a touch spell on yourself, you can do it without the need of an attack roll. But might i ask which ray spells you intend to use on yourself? (This could change the previous statement.)

[Curmudgeon]

You follow the rules, so you can't hit yourself unless you succeed on the attack roll. For that single attack you are your own opponent: your attack roll is opposed by your AC.

[cakellene]

I doubt you would need to beat your own AC to attack yourself willingly. Now if yiu are dominated, that would be a different matter IMO.

[Thurbane]

I doubt you would need to beat your own AC to attack yourself willingly. Now if yiu are dominated, that would be a different matter IMO.
RAW? No, you actually do need to make the roll. On the plus side, this means you might critical yourself! :smalltongue:

I'm not even sure there is anything in the rules about voluntarily forgoing your Dex bonus to AC, although it would make logical sense that you should be able to.

If you want to ignore RAW, then I would also agree yes, you should be able to target yourself just as you would target any willing target with a touch spell (even though this is ranged, it's effectively the same as touch in this case).

[cakellene]

RAW? No, you actually do need to make the roll. On the plus side, this means you might critical yourself! :smalltongue:

I'm not even sure there is anything in the rules about voluntarily forgoing your Dex bonus to AC, although it would make logical sense that you should be able to.

If you want to ignore RAW, then I would also agree yes, you should be able to target yourself just as you would target any willing target with a touch spell (even though this is ranged, it's effectively the same as touch in this case).

Seems kinda silly that someone might have more difficulty stabbing their own hand than stabbing a sqirming kitten.

[TuggyNE]

Seems kinda silly that someone might have more difficulty stabbing their own hand than stabbing a sqirming kitten.

If you're wearing armored gauntlets, or a magical forcefield that emulates the same, then I don't see why that's silly at all.

[Thurbane]

Seems kinda silly that someone might have more difficulty stabbing their own hand than stabbing a sqirming kitten.
No one ever said RAW makes sense :smalltongue:

[PaucaTerrorem]

No one ever said RAW makes sense :smalltongue:

And no one has ever argued about the clear cut well defined rules wakka wakka

[kabreras]

ray is a ranged touch attack

You dont need an attack roll to touch yourself with a spell of range "touch"

so you dont need an attack roll to hit you with a ray spell

the only DM call is that if you can target yourself with a range spells...

You can stab yourself easy with a sword but its harder to fire yourself an arrow on you...

[Dalebert]

FWIW, if you are standing perfectly still and not resisting, I believe that qualifies as being at your own mercy.


A helpless opponent is someone who is bound, sleeping, paralyzed,
unconscious, or otherwise at your mercy.

And that means substantial AC penalties on top of the fact that it already uses touch AC. I thought this qualified as a coup des grace but apparently that requires a particular weapon which rays do not fall into.


Regular Attack: A helpless character takes a –4 penalty to AC
against melee attacks, but no penalty to AC against ranged attacks. A
helpless defender can’t use any Dexterity bonus to AC. In fact, his
Dexterity score is treated as if it were 0 and his Dexterity modifier to
AC as if it were –5 (and a rogue can sneak attack him).

[Curmudgeon]

ray is a ranged touch attack

You dont need an attack roll to touch yourself with a spell of range "touch"

so you dont need an attack roll to hit you with a ray spell
You seem to be having trouble distinguishing between some related spell types. There are two types of touch spells: those which affect willing targets, and those which are touch attacks. You don't need to roll for a willing target spell, but you do need to roll to hit yourself with a touch attack spell.

Ranged touch attacks are in yet a third category. They differ from touch attack spells by requiring a line of effect to the target. An attack roll is always required.
touch spell: A spell that delivers its effect when the caster touches a target creature or object. Touch spells are delivered to unwilling targets by touch attacks.
touch attack: An attack in which the attacker must connect with an opponent but does not need to penetrate armor.
attack: Any of numerous actions intended to harm, disable, or neutralize an opponent. The outcome of an attack is determined by an attack roll.

[Menzath]

I think we will have to default to heal spell rules.

The cure line spells are a range of touch, but only require a roll to hit on an Unwilling target.
And under the Line Aiming at a target in the players handbook nowhere does it say you cannot aim a spell(attack) yourself.
So yes that does mean for some crazy reason you can inflict wounds on yourself.
This should be completely Rules legal.
And yes you can stand immobile to make it almost an auto hit.
Sadly in the index it does State this

ray: A beam created by a spell. The caster must succeed on a
ranged touch attack to hit with a ray.
So you MUST roll an attack roll, "sigh" now you can crit yourself.

Bonus points if you go spellwarp Sniper to Coup de Grace yourself.

[Duke of Urrel]

I think the rules require a ranged touch attack for a ray spell, even if you cast it upon yourself.

However, I also believe you can choose not to dodge a ray that you shoot out of your own finger; you can stand still instead. And I believe this should reduce your Dexterity modifier to –5. Considering that touch attacks negate armor bonuses, your Armor Class is unlikely to be higher than 5, unless you have other bonuses (such as deflection bonuses) to consider. So if you're a reasonably practiced shot (meaning that you add at least +4 to ranged attack rolls), your chance of failure should be no more than 5% (that is, you fail only on a natural one, following the rule of all attack rolls).

[Osiris]

It's simple- just point at your face. It's like point blank, you can't even miss on a natural 1. Unless your DM is silly like most are, then he'll make you roll, and of course you'll end up rolling a 1. That's the thing with D20's: they only work when it doesn't matter. Enemy saves, however, go either way. That's why I prefer using saves spells instead of ending up rolling a 1 and shooting my ally. [/rant]

[Thanatosia]

I would be willing to bet if you rounded up every single DM that would rule that you can't hit yourself with a ray spell, 99% of them would gleefuly have you hit yourself when you roll a natural 1 when playing with fumble rules.

[Dalebert]

So is it the generally accepted conclusion that strictly per RAW, you have to roll to-hit but will very likely succeed on anything but a one, but that any sane DM will just let you do it?

[Curmudgeon]

No, I'd make them roll for it. (Also, the voices in my head insist that I'm sane, and they win by majority vote. :smallbiggrin:)

[ericgrau]

You apply your character’s Dexterity modifier to:
...
Armor Class (AC), provided that the character can react to the attack.

Cast dominate person on yourself and command yourself not to react to the attack and that should at least remove dex from your AC, which also removes dodge bonuses.

I would house rule that someone could forego their dex bonus to AC, but not other bonuses. I would not let them set it to -5, nor anything lower than 0, unless they hold perfectly still, which could be a problem when enemies are around. IMO deflection bonuses should still apply; the magic is making attacks veer away whether you like it or not.

[Spore]

Cast dominate person on yourself and command yourself not to react to the attack and that should at least remove dex from your AC, which also removes dodge bonuses.

I would house rule that someone could forego their dex bonus to AC, but not other bonuses. I would not let them set it to -5, nor anything lower than 0, unless they hold perfectly still, which could be a problem when enemies are around. IMO deflection bonuses should still apply; the magic is making attacks veer away whether you like it or not.

So that's why bad ass characters remove their shirt. It gives them deflection AC!

[Thanatosia]

So that's why bad ass characters remove their shirt. It gives them deflection AC!
Not the red ones...

[Phelix-Mu]

Just got an image of some archmage, a bad aim in his dotage, trying to aim a ray at his own face in one of those shaving mirrors.

This also gives a whole new category of uses in my book of "1001 Things to Do with Project Image."

[Psyren]

I doubt you would need to beat your own AC to attack yourself willingly. Now if yiu are dominated, that would be a different matter IMO.

You can forego your own Dex and Dodge bonuses IIRC but I think things like deflection would still count and you'd have to roll.


No, I'd make them roll for it. (Also, the voices in my head insist that I'm sane, and they win by majority vote. :smallbiggrin:)

Can't argue with that :smallwink:

I'd make them roll too, if only for the hilarity that would ensue if they rolled a 1.

[Dalebert]

The more important question:

Can casting ray attacks on yourself grow hair on your palms?

[nedz]

A helpless opponent is someone who is bound, sleeping, paralyzed,
unconscious, or otherwise at your mercy.

So tying yourself up and using Still spell should help.

[Psyren]

The more important question:

Can casting ray attacks on yourself grow hair on your palms?

No, but bolstering yourself would (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0873.html) :smalltongue:

[Glimbur]

Make certain not to lie down before you try this, because then you have a +4 to AC versus ranged attacks.

[Sir Chuckles]

So tying yourself up and using Still spell should help.

BUT, it says "at your mercy".

I dunno, but I think I'm at my own mec-
SHUT UP ME