grappler question

[geonova]

how viable would an unarmored, unarmed barbarian who goes into the fist of the forest and reaping mauler prestige classes be? and if it is viable, what would a good race for said build to be?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Reaping mailer has an error that was never errattad that actually makes members of the class worse grapplers than they'd be without it.

It requires clever wrestling as a prerequisite and grants improved grapple as a bonus feat. These should be reversed.

Otherwise, barbarians are one of the better choices for a grappler. Fist of the forest is just a generally nice PrC for an unarmed, unarmored warrior types too.

Just realize that a grappler can be a rough ride with larger beasties and natural grapplers and that spellcasters are often unpleasantly slippery.

[eggynack]

Reaping mauler is, as noted, doubleplusungood. Fist of the forest is safe for consumption. As a replacement grapple focused PrC, you should consider bear warrior (CWar, 16), which gets you some size and strength bonuses, in addition to improved grab. Another option worth considering, for the unarmed damage part of the build, is frostrager (Frost, 60), which grants some bonuses to unarmed attacks. Finally, there's possibly the best grapple PrC, and one that would fit in well with any sort of grappling barbarian, the black blood cultist (CoR, 44). That class gets you a ton of useful grappling abilities, and is well worth taking.

[geonova]

ok, i'll look at the cultist and drop reaping mauler

[Gwendol]

Word of caution regarding the Frostrager: it makes you a Cold creature and vulnerable to fire, which may or may not be a liability. Just something to keep in mind.
Fist of the forest is excellent though, especially paring it with Bear Warrior.

I suggest Barb 4/FotF 3/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 5/Nature's warrior 1/Bear Warrior X

You probably want to shift the levels around a little. Nature's warrior is only for the Serpent's Coil (Su) ability that gives a grapple bonus. If you choose to be a goliath you grow to Large size when raging, which is nice.

[Fouredged Sword]

The cold issue of frost rager can be countered with the burning rage feat. It feels a little odd, but getting both the fire and cold subtype grants immunity to both fire and cold damage with no penalties.

For a grappler build, I would go

Barbarian 5 / Black Blood Cultist 9 / Frost Rager 5 / Bear warrior 2

Rearange as needed, but whenever you make a successful grapple check, you deal damage as if you hit with ALL your natural attacks, including your rend.

Pick up beast strike to boost your unarmed strike damage as well.

If you don't like frost rager, take more bear warrior instead.

[Gwendol]

I still think FotF has a place since the OP wants the grappler unarmored as well as unarmed. CON to AC is too good to pass up.

[Fouredged Sword]

Bear warrior/frost rager generally gets around the need for armor due to high natural armor. Failing that, don't dump wisdom and get a monks belt (nice for an unarmed fighter anyway).

[Gwendol]

Sure, but even the monks belt is a poor substitute for a raging barbarian getting CON to AC.

[Fouredged Sword]

True. It is a really nice feature. One could sneak one or two levels into the above build...

Barbarian 2 / Fighter 2 / ranger 1 / Black Blood Cultist 8 / Frost Rager 5 / Bear warrior 1 / Fist of the Forest 2

Feat prereqs are going to be harsh, but there is a lot of overlap between classes. I would be tempted to mix in fighter and ranger per the above build for some cheep feats. Improved unarmed strike, power attack, Frozen Berserker, and Track are all needed as prereqs.

Then mix in extra rage (needed badly), supreme unarmed strike, The fire raging feat. There is a lot of stuff you just kinda need.

Still, seems a solid, if late blooming build.

Another option, if you want to avoid evil, and thus black blood cultists, is a warshaper build.

Barbarian 4 / Fist of the Forest 1 / FrostRager 1 / Bear warrior 10 / Warshaper 4

You are a Polar Bear.

[Darrin]

how viable would an unarmored, unarmed barbarian who goes into the fist of the forest and reaping mauler prestige classes be? and if it is viable, what would a good race for said build to be?

Race: Human, Azurin, or Strongheart Halfling
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Iron Will. Bonus: Track. Human: Great Fortitude.
2) Fighter 1*. Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike.
3) Fighter 2. Feat: Superior Unarmed Strike. Bonus: Power Attack.
4) Fist of the Forest 1.
5) Fist of the Forest 2.
6) Fist of the Forest 3. Feat: Improved Natural Attack.
7) Leviathan Hunter 1.
8) Leviathan Hunter 2.
9) Leviathan Hunter 3. Feat: Stunning Fist. Bonus: Clever Wrestling.
10) Reaping Mauler 1. Bonus: Improved Grapple. Bonus: Mobility.
11) Reaping Mauler 2.
12) Reaping Mauler 3. Feat: Earth's Embrace (Oriental Adventures).
13) Reaping Mauler 4.
14) Reaping Mauler 5.
15) Spirit Bear Totem Barbarian 1. Feat: Extra Rage. (Complete Champion, for Improved Grab)
16) Bear Warrior 1.
17) Bear Warrior 2.
18) Bear Warrior 3. Feat: Extra Rage.
19) Bear Warrior 4.
20) Bear Warrior 5.

* Note: Replace with Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium) or City Brawler Barbarian (Dragon #349) if need be. Throwing some PsyWar or Warmind in there for expansion wouldn't be a bad idea, either. Warblade dip or Martial Study/Stance for the Crushing Weight of the Mountain stance would give you some Constrict damage.

You'll still get hosed by freedom of movement.

[Fouredged Sword]

Bear warrior and reaping mauler don't mix well. One makes you large, the other looses it's prereqs if you are large.

I like my bear build, becuase with beast strike and two castings of greater mighty wallop, even if your oponent has freedom of movement, you just hit him with with a 16d6+str hit, and your strength will be a minimum of 25 (if for some reason you had a 1 at character creation and didn't invest in strength gear)

[Greenish]

If you took flaws, you could have all FotF prerequisites at 1st level. Really, you were going to get PA and IUS anyway. Great Fortitude is pretty wasted on something which'll have Fort saves up the wazoo anyway, granted.


I like dipping into Pugilist variant fighter (Dragon #310), which gets IUS and Endurance (yay for Steadfast Determination) at 1st level as bonus feats. Pugilist has to pick their bonus feats from a very limited list, which could be annoying. Except that Great Fortitude is on that list.

Barbarian 2/Pugilist 2 qualifies for Fist of the Forest without spending any feats from levelling on it.

[Edit]:
Bear warrior and reaping mauler don't mix well. One makes you large, the other looses it's prereqs if you are large.That's why he gets Clever Wrestling from Leviathan Hunter which doesn't lose it.

[Gwendol]

Yup, if you compare the numbers to my build above I'm quite certain to come up on top. Reaping mauler is just not very good.

[Zombulian]

As someone who loves grappler builds, you have to realize your main weakness, Freedom of Movement stops you in your tracks. Now how you take care of that is up to you, but I might get a portable AMF.

[Garagos]

Make sure to pick up Scorpion's Grasp if you can spare the feat. Basically gives you improved grab like a lot of monsters get.

[Darrin]

Bear warrior and reaping mauler don't mix well. One makes you large, the other looses it's prereqs if you are large.


That's why Leviathan Hunter 3 is in there, which grants Clever Wrestling as a bonus feat regardless of your size. [Edit: Swordsaged by Greenish.]

I threw Bear Warrior on there mostly for giggles. Warmind or PsyWar would probably work better for increasing your size. Actually... maybe throw Stoneblessed in before Barb 1, take the Mountain Rage Goliath substitution level, but again, that comes in so late it's mostly for giggles.

[Gwendol]

As someone who loves grappler builds, you have to realize your main weakness, Freedom of Movement stops you in your tracks. Now how you take care of that is up to you, but I might get a portable AMF.

If you manage to go first you could hit them with an anchoring(?) weapon.

[Zombulian]

If you manage to go first you could hit them with an anchoring(?) weapon.

Well for one thing that's PF, which may not be allowed. Also FoM simply makes you auto-win opposed grapple checks to stay out of a grapple.

[Gwendol]

Yeah, sorry. I was thinking about teleportation.

[Mountain]

Posting mainly for subscription, but I'll throw in my 2cp.

If you have any spare feats, which I realize are tight on a grappler, martial study and martial stance can net you a maneuver and a stance that are good for grappling. (briefly mentioned earlier)

Also, look into the Runescarred Berserker prc, in Unapproachable East. If you're not in Faerun, it isn't hard to adapt. It's based on barbarian, which you wanted to use, and it turns you into a walking AMF. It totally ruins spellcasters, which are your worst enemy.