Can Laurin kill/do physical damage?

[Phoniex]

Hey long time reader, but I just had to say something that I found strange.
So if Laurin is this great and powerful(or OP) psion that can do everything from wormhole to disintegrate to AOE stunning a group of high level adventures.. why has she not once hurt a living creature directly? I mean I get letting Tarquin have the killing blow on roy or whatever, but at a certain point shouldn't she be disintegrating Julio or roy or someone (alive). Does anyone else find it strange that she has done no actual HP damage to anyone?

Also I think that the key to beating Tarquin is to not give him a save. I have made characters like Tarquin before (generally fighter base, but I'm not sure exactally what Tarquin is, but I doubt fighter). Their job is to make every save and stay up. So the way that Tarquin will be "defeated" (I don't think he will die, or if dies not be resurrected) is by a non-damage and non-save attack/situation.

Anyway THANKS FOR A GREAT COMIC GIANT!

[Shale]

She absolutely can cause harm - that Psionic Disintegrate she's tossing around can fry people every bit as easily as Vaarsuivius' version. But for whatever reason, she's not choosing to.

[Squark]

I suspect she's doing this because she's gotten used to Tarquin's tastes, and she's trying not to upstage him to avoid an earful. Tarquin wants to kill Haley himself, and apart from her, V is the only one Disintegrate could reliably do much against (Roy, Durkon, and Belkar all have good fortitude saves, and would shrug off a disintegrate fairly easily). Miron also seems to have been the more offensive based caster of the two, so she likely chose powers better suited to support.

[PebbleInTheSky]

I imagine the reason is something like this (if this is not possible in D&D, forgive me for the error. I'm basing this off of story reasons):

Laurin: Heroes tend to do things like jump in front of the guy I'm about to disintegrate, to save his life. Tarquin still hasn't gotten over that one time I killed-well, it's not important. I just don't want to listen to him whine about it for the next 20 years if one of these people eats a disintegrate to save the life of their friend, unless I'm in serious danger.

[ReaderAt2046]

Actually, I think that may be another example of Team Tarquin's trend towards optimization/Genre Saavy. It's fairly universally agreed that if you are playing a wizard or other primary caster, direct damage is badly UP compared to save-or-die/save-or-suck spells, which is exactly what Laurin seems to favor for her attack powers.

[King of Nowhere]

She seems to prefer the support role: she don't hurt other people, she just hold them while her friends hurt them. seems fitting for her, she looks the kind of teamplayer.
then amybe it's also her way of showing disappointment: i'll help you, but i won't kill for you.
or maybe she's a technical pacifist, she don't like to kill while being fine with disabling people for her friends to kill.

[ooOoo]

So the way that Tarquin will be "defeated" (I don't think he will die, or if dies not be resurrected) is by a non-damage and non-save attack/situation.

something like a power word stun (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0716.html) while he's hanging from the edge of an airship...?

[bguy]

I suspect she's doing this because she's gotten used to Tarquin's tastes, and she's trying not to upstage him to avoid an earful. Tarquin wants to kill Haley himself, and apart from her, V is the only one Disintegrate could reliably do much against (Roy, Durkon, and Belkar all have good fortitude saves, and would shrug off a disintegrate fairly easily). Miron also seems to have been the more offensive based caster of the two, so she likely chose powers better suited to support.

Belkar's Fort Save might actually be worse than V's right now, giving that he has a massive CON penalty due to blood drain. (Plus he might actually be low enough on HPs to get disintegrated even on a successful save.)

Durkon's Fort Save is comparitively better, but still not great since he doesn't get a CON bonus anymore. As such Laurin has at worst even odds of taking him out with a Disintegrate. (Assuming Durkon is a 14th or 15th level cleric than his FORT bonus is +9, while the absolute minimum DC on Laurin's Disintegrate would be 20.)

So Laurin's got plenty of reasonable targets for her Disintegrates. She's just not using them.

[Everyl]

Durkon might not technically count as "alive," but she did kinda sorta attempt to destroy him on-panel a few strips ago. And I don't think that she's the sort who would consider undead to be non-people, given her reaction to learning of Malack's death.

It struck me as really strange, since she seemed to have avoided causing direct, lasting harm in every strip before then. Before that, I'd suspected she was the sort of "pacifist villain" who won't hurt people personally, but will happily stand by and watch (or even support) others doing her dirty work. She then went on to try to strangle V with Tarquin's whip, though, so she seems to be less of the villainous pseudo-pacifist and more someone who's tactics and motivations remain somewhat obscure.

[Corvis]

Strangling V with that whip doesn't scream 'non-lethal' to me, and I wouldn't discount the possibility that some of those mind blasts are doing lethal damage, either. They sure look painful, anyway.

I wouldn't read too much into it. She's been too busy doing other stuff to spend many rounds blasting.

[Tiiba]

This is a question I've also had about Zz'dri. Outside of Malack, on whom he used an abjuration of all things, he never killed anyone. He turned Celia to stone, and when he fought Vaarsuvius in Bleedingham, all he did was defend and taunt, except for that Phantasmal Killer (an illusion, of all things), which failed. (Did he send it against V or Y? If V, why did he say that Z is trying to kill Y? Were they so high that the fall would kill him? They look like they're maybe ten feet up.)

(Oh, he also used Parody is Protected Speech, which looks like it hurt. So once.)

[snowblizz]

Z is the opposite of V. So whereas V is (was) happy to blast away Z used more indirect ways of killing/disabling. I'd say it's not that Z is avoiding to kill, it's just that Z is the passive to V's active.

As for Laurin I got the impression first that Tarquin "requested" for *Roy* to die, he didn't care enough at first for "Elan's Team" to die. Seeing as TT isn't (very) invested in this fight in any way other than tit for tat favours Laurin does the least she can to earn the favour Tarquin promised her.
The second she feels it won't happen she's going to pull out, I imagine offering T a way out and if he doesn't take it well on his head be it. Though it almost feels like she is getting ready to play a much more active role now.

Although I'm thinking the favour might have something to do with !Durkon, she doesn't seem happy for him to have Malack's staff even though !Durkon is his spawn and it might even be something Malack would have wanted.

[Obscure Blade]

This is a question I've also had about Zz'dri. Outside of Malack, on whom he used an abjuration of all things, he never killed anyone. He turned Celia to stone, and when he fought Vaarsuvius in Bleedingham, all he did was defend and taunt, except for that Phantasmal Killer (an illusion, of all things), which failed. (Did he send it against V or Y? If V, why did he say that Z is trying to kill Y? Were they so high that the fall would kill him? They look like they're maybe ten feet up.)Phantasmal Killer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantasmalKiller.htm) kills by fear if you fail your save, and if you succeed does damage.


The target first gets a Will save to recognize the image as unreal. If that save fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed on a Fortitude save or die from fear. Even if the Fortitude save is successful, the subject takes 3d6 points of damage.

[tulebast]

To answer OP, it is my humble opinion that


Psions are not OP, people are just afraid of strange and new things
Laurin is quite capable of doing direct damage, however
Tarquin has made it quite clear that he is trying to take lead on killing things so as to provide Elan with motivation, and finally
I am starting to think that she is trying to get Tarquin killed without being held directly responsible (after all, blipping Tarquin onto the deck of the Mechane doesn't seem to be a very smart thing to do, and Int is the Psion's primary stat...)

[Cuthalion]

To answer OP, it is my humble opinion that


Psions are not OP, people are just afraid of strange and new things
Laurin is quite capable of doing direct damage, however
Tarquin has made it quite clear that he is trying to take lead on killing things so as to provide Elan with motivation, and finally
I am starting to think that she is trying to get Tarquin killed without being held directly responsible (after all, blipping Tarquin onto the deck of the Mechane doesn't seem to be a very smart thing to do, and Int is the Psion's primary stat...)



Indeed.
She is.
She is trying to stay back, yeah
She'll cut and run if Tarkie's snuffed. But she still has the favor.

[Kornaki]

I am starting to think that she is trying to get Tarquin killed without being held directly responsible (after all, blipping Tarquin onto the deck of the Mechane doesn't seem to be a very smart thing to do, and Int is the Psion's primary stat...)


Why is it not a smart thing? Tarquin is apparently so bedecked in magic gear that he's just going to crush the Order. Do you think getting swiped off the ship would have killed him? All it would have done is cost Laurin two wormholes and Tarquin a couple rounds of regenerating/drinking a potion or something.

Sure in the sense of "maximize your chance of survival" they would be better off not going on the ship, but it's not like they're stumbling into anything inherently more dangerous than the fight they were in two rounds earlier.

[Phoniex]

Durkon might not technically count as "alive," but she did kinda sorta attempt to destroy him on-panel a few strips ago. And I don't think that she's the sort who would consider undead to be non-people, given her reaction to learning of Malack's death.

It struck me as really strange, since she seemed to have avoided causing direct, lasting harm in every strip before then. Before that, I'd suspected she was the sort of "pacifist villain" who won't hurt people personally, but will happily stand by and watch (or even support) others doing her dirty work. She then went on to try to strangle V with Tarquin's whip, though, so she seems to be less of the villainous pseudo-pacifist and more someone who's tactics and motivations remain somewhat obscure.

While dispelling Durkons protection spell is both a surer way to kill him, denies him a save, and accomplishes the goal in one spell. I'm still thinking that Laurin has some kind of moral or alignment against doing DIRECT physical harm. Because Roy was at so little HPS for a while there that a disintegrate even after a save should have him blowing in the wind. Belkar was down and a easy target. Hell V was a target for the spell unless she has to concentrate to keep wormhole up.

Also strangling/grappling V with a whip while it might have the comic look of turning V blue, game mechanically all it did was prevent him from doing anything other that grapple checks.. no damage again.

And Z definitely did DD with his spells multiple times and in multiple ways, he only used other spells if they completely negated a character, like turning haley to stone.

[tulebast]

Why is it not a smart thing? Tarquin is apparently so bedecked in magic gear that he's just going to crush the Order. Do you think getting swiped off the ship would have killed him? All it would have done is cost Laurin two wormholes and Tarquin a couple rounds of regenerating/drinking a potion or something.

Sure in the sense of "maximize your chance of survival" they would be better off not going on the ship, but it's not like they're stumbling into anything inherently more dangerous than the fight they were in two rounds earlier.

No, I don't think falling off the ship would have killed him and Laurin dispelling the Bugsby's hand spell keeps him on the ship and in harm's way. Laurin has no way of knowing how many other people are on ship and what their capabilities are. The smart thing would have been to wait for Miron to teleport back, possibly with reinforcements, and then blip on up there, especially with Tarquin having obviously lost it.

Two rounds earlier they were fighting Julio, a single combatant, while the order was executing their historically most successful stratagem. Now she's in a more unpredictable situation with the Order plus reinforcements (demonstrably much more dangerous than two rounds before). Roy and/or Belkar can pop up any second after healing, and even Durkon (who has posed a problem for her already) can complicate things for her. However, she's now in a position to allow herself to be "occupied" by V, so now Tarquin can run headlong into his fate, whatever that conclusion will be.

It might not have started out that she was thinking this endeavor was a way to get rid of Tarquin, but he's bound and determined to get there and she's certainly being very helpful either way (a win for her regardless of outcome).



Indeed.
She is.
She is trying to stay back, yeah
She'll cut and run if Tarkie's snuffed. But she still has the favor.


Whatever her favor may have initially been, it is possible that it could easily become "Don't come back when the cleric rez comes a callin'." I think with Miron out of the way, she might just be inclined to maneuver Tarquin into defeat. After all, she's already placed the blame for Malack's demise on Tarquin coddling one son. She can just as easily foist the blame for Tarquin's death on his bad decision making with the other one. She's got a good thing going with the rest of the group, and now she knows Tarquin's ultimate plan is to have his son come back and take him (and by extension them) out. If my primary stat was probably 20+ Int score, I'd be thinking of a way to get Tarquin gone and ensure his idiot son never comes back a callin.

[Mind you, I don't think things will throw down that way. I think Rich has another twist/outcome headed in. I'm just following my own conclusions based on what's been presented thus far.]

[Cuthalion]

even Durkon (who has posed a problem for her already) can complicate things for her.
Durkon's preparing spells, and won't come back unless very needed.

Whatever her favor may have initially been, it is possible that it could easily become "Don't come back when the cleric rez comes a callin'." I think with Miron out of the way, she might just be inclined to maneuver Tarquin into defeat. After all, she's already placed the blame for Malack's demise on Tarquin coddling one son. She can just as easily foist the blame for Tarquin's death on his bad decision making with the other one. She's got a good thing going with the rest of the group, and now she knows Tarquin's ultimate plan is to have his son come back and take him (and by extension them) out. If my primary stat was probably 20+ Int score, I'd be thinking of a way to get Tarquin gone and ensure his idiot son never comes back a callin.

[Mind you, I don't think things will throw down that way. I think Rich has another twist/outcome headed in. I'm just following my own conclusions based on what's been presented thus far.]
I highly doubt it, as I'm not sure Tarquin would comply.

[Spleen_]

Tarquin is rapidly outliving his usefulness to her. Comments made by both Miron and Malack suggest that Tarquin's obsession with narrative has long been an acknowledged irritant to the rest of the party, and if Laurin hadn't considered Tarquin's eccentricities to be an outright liability before, she certainly did starting with the news of Malack's death. It's clear to all that the events of the day have caused Tarquin to go off the deep end and I would imagine that she is suddenly much more skeptical of his judgement and his stability, both traits that contribute much of his value to the party. His poor judgement with respect to his family issues have already gotten Malack killed, could very well have gotten Miron killed, and he looks perfectly happy to charge headfirst into whatever will finally kill him. He even threw away his decade-old favor, and all for what?

Laurin seems to have always had at least a little distaste for this thing that they do, and the plan's architect has now made it clear that the whole thing is just a complicated way to satisfy his very specific pathology, a pseudo-suicidal ritual that culminates with his (other) son killing off (another) member of the party and tearing down everything they spent years maintaining. After what she has witnessed today she would have little enough incentive to bother saving him from himself even if he weren't an objectively awful individual. Providing transportation and support may just be pity, or a lingering fondness for the man, or a sort of final test to see if he really is beyond saving, a little like what Tarquin did for Nale.

If Tarquin gets whatever it is that he wants, she gets a favor out of it. If he doesn't, then she just Wormspams away and rids herself of a dangerous and unpredictable liability. If the Order manages to get away without killing him then she may very well finish him off herself (and keep his magic items for herself).

[eilandesq]

I suspect she's doing this because she's gotten used to Tarquin's tastes, and she's trying not to upstage him to avoid an earful. Tarquin wants to kill Haley himself, and apart from her, V is the only one Disintegrate could reliably do much against (Roy, Durkon, and Belkar all have good fortitude saves, and would shrug off a disintegrate fairly easily). Miron also seems to have been the more offensive based caster of the two, so she likely chose powers better suited to support.

Disintegrate would be dangerous to Durkon--he lost his Con Bonus to both his Fort save and his hit points by becoming undead, and the +2 HP/die he got from going from 8 to 12 sided hit dice isn't nearly enough to make up for the probable +4/+5 save bonus and +4/+5 HP per die he lost from that. It might not be the optimum approach to taking out Durkon at night (and obviously using that same psionic power to vaporize squishy wizard V (even a *made* save vs. psionic disintegrate would cost V a good percentage of his/her HP, and a failed save would be certain instant death) would almost certainly take precedence), but it is certainly a defensible one.

[Brendanicus]

I'm assuming that Laurin wormholing TT onto the Mechane was a result of Tarquin's insistence, rather than any tactics on the part of Laurin.

Still, the other commenters have a point when they say that Laurin might betray Tarquin. IMO, the biggest weakness Tarquin has, aside from dependence on narrative structure, is that he takes his friends for granted, possibly excluding Malack. He wold be completely blind to a betrayal by his allies.

Also, I doubt Laurin will kill and member of the Order unless really pressed to. If she kills one of them, she risks jepordizing a possible hatchet burial between the Order and TT's empire after Tarquin is killed.

[glissle]

Tarquin's death would only deprive Laurin of her favor if she couldn't get him Raised or if he blamed her for it, and it might, possibly, humble him enough to get him to listen to reason.

She said her favor could be cleared today, not that it needed to be.

[Kornaki]

Still, the other commenters have a point when they say that Laurin might betray Tarquin. IMO, the biggest weakness Tarquin has, aside from dependence on narrative structure, is that he takes his friends for granted, possibly excluding Malack. He wold be completely blind to a betrayal by his allies.

On what basis can we conclude that Tarquin takes his allies for granted? We've seen almost no interaction between them that would hint at this that I can tell.



Also, I doubt Laurin will kill and member of the Order unless really pressed to. If she kills one of them, she risks jepordizing a possible hatchet burial between the Order and TT's empire after Tarquin is killed.

I find it significantly more likely that Laurin will kill a member of the OOTS than Laurin will kill Tarquin.