Pathfinder Monk.

[AstralFire]

So a friend is trying to talk me into playing a game of Pathfinder. Simply not being the DM has a siren song to me, but no 3.5 upconversions, apparently. Glancing over the PF Monk, looks like there's some improvements, but it's not instilling me with confidence to the straight max, yo.

I think it's safe to assume moderate to low optimization with this group, though I don't know for sure. How bad is the PF Monk? Am I missing a major saving grace? Or are there any reasonable alternatives to something that'd fit the general flavor of a desert wind swordsage?

[MeeposFire]

Not counting archetypes? Pretty bad (as in 3.5 type bad). Are you able to use archetypes?

[AstralFire]

Not counting archetypes? Pretty bad (as in 3.5 type bad). Are you able to use archetypes?

I assume so. Monk of the Four Winds seems nice and flavorful and hilariously useless (so: monk business as usual).

[Corlindale]

Some archetypes give the monk a significant buff. Quingong is basically mandatory, since you give up nothing by taking it and gain access to a lot of nice options.

Zen Archer is very good, but it doesn't sound like exactly what you are looking for.

For a Desert Wind swordsage I'd actually recommend the Magus. You don't get actual maneuvers, but you can mix melee combat with fire spells for a similar feel.

[Psyren]

It's a definite improvement over the 3.5 one, not counting PrCs of course. The ki pool, in addition to having benefits of its own, also allows you to use abilities like Wholeness of Body and Empty Body much more frequently.

Tetori, Qinggong, Master of Many Styles and Flowing Monk are probably the good archetypes to look at. Monk of the Lotus has a lot of flavor as well. Look into some of the vows too (not VoP) for free ki at little cost.

Monk is viable, as is any class in PF, as long as you have the WBL the game intends you to have. How well you do will depend a lot on your party makeup and optimization level.

[VexingFool]

I've played a basic pathfinder monk in a low-mid optimization game and did have any problems being effective or useful. With access to the archetypes you should be able to make something that is better.

I really like the Master of Many Styles with Crane Wing to start and whatever other style fits your taste. As was said above Qinggong gives you some flexibility to drop whatever class features you don't want. If you really want to go crazy you could go with multiple archetypes like Hungry Ghost/Master of Many Styles/Qinggong.

[AstralFire]

So I'm actually going Dawnflower Dervish Bard archery (with scimitar as sidearm), and fluffing it as fiery arrow thingummers, it looks like. First feat was Fast Learner for the extra HP and Skill Point since the game's often (though not always) going to have split parties and I need to be self-reliant. Any general advice for bow builds?

[Psyren]

Any general advice for bow builds?

Get Precise Shot asap, a lot of feats depend on it.

PF has some nice archery feats like Deadly Aim, Clustered Shots, and the Snap Shot line.

[Kaveman26]

And if you decent int focused shot adds int to damage.

[AstralFire]

Nah, no decent Int. +2s in Dex/Con/Wis and 18 in Cha is how my stats ended up. +0 in Str/Int.


Get Precise Shot asap, a lot of feats depend on it.

PF has some nice archery feats like Deadly Aim, Clustered Shots, and the Snap Shot line.

Precise Shot or Arcane Strike first? I was thinking Arcane Strike since it'd serve me well if I'm pressed into using the scimitar and they provide comparable bonuses. Having the first session (online) and I'm already going it solo, the only PC running against two DMs since the other PCs don't have their sheets ready yet.

[Alent]

And if you decent int focused shot adds int to damage.

IIRC, Focused shot is a trap feat that requires a standard action to use, same as Vital strike, and any other remotely nice sounding melee/archer thing.

[Psyren]

Precise Shot or Arcane Strike first? I was thinking Arcane Strike since it'd serve me well if I'm pressed into using the scimitar and they provide comparable bonuses. Having the first session (online) and I'm already going it solo, the only PC running against two DMs since the other PCs don't have their sheets ready yet.

That depends on your campaign. If there's a lot of melee then you'll want Precise Shot, (a) because you'll be doing more archery than melee and want to go up that tree faster, and (b) so that you can fire into melee without getting dirty digital looks from your comrades.

But if you anticipate being solo for a while longer or the party melee being light then Arcane Strike is probably better.