Wizard Swiftblade

[tricktroller]

Hey Folks of the Playground!

So I rolled some sweet stats and in order it just seemed like an awesome gish setup.

So I am going eidetic spellcaster acf, focused transmuter acf Wizard
Stats, rolled just like this :D

Str 18
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 11

So pretty happy with what I rolled, and placement looks like a gish to me lmao.

So feats

Human MWP Greatsword
1st Dodge
3rd Mobility
5th Extend Spell
6th Arcane Thesis (Haste)
9th ?
12th ?
15th ?
18th Persistent Spell

Build is Wizard 6/ Swiftblade 3/ Abjurant Champion 2/ Swiftblade 6/ Abjurant Champion 3

I want to be able to extend and quicken my abjurations and my hastes with ease because this guy will be played from either level 1 or 3 and probably no higher than 12th or 15th ever. So it is more important to focus on his growth throughout his whole career. Now this character will never be "God" but he should be a potent addition to the group. What do you guys think?

[Snowbluff]

Spelldancer 1. Persisted Ocular Haste. 5th level of Abj champ is worthless, and Swiftblade levels are better. Use your wizard feats (Martial Wizard ACF) for Expeditious Dodge and Mobility.

Also, your caster will be a god. A god with 2 standard actions per turn.

[tricktroller]

what is spelldancer? 10th level of swiftblade would prevent me from casting 9th level spells, I agree abjurant cahmp 5 is useless but I could find no reason to take wizard instead so that's what I took.

[AMFV]

what is spelldancer? 10th level of swiftblade would prevent me from casting 9th level spells, I agree abjurant cahmp 5 is useless but I could find no reason to take wizard instead so that's what I took.

That's why you take 9 levels, then you get 3.0 Haste, it's worth the next lost caster level. Two actions per round is completely worth it, it makes gishing into a serious work of art.

[Snowbluff]

what is spelldancer? 10th level of swiftblade would prevent me from casting 9th level spells, I agree abjurant cahmp 5 is useless but I could find no reason to take wizard instead so that's what I took.

Magic of Faerun. Replace your last level of Abj Champ with it. They dance to add metamagic to spells. It's cool, and the prerequisites over lap with Swiftblade and Abj Champ for the most part.

[AMFV]

Magic of Faerun. Replace your last level of Abj Champ with it. They dance to add metamagic to spells. It's cool, and the prerequisites over lap with Swiftblade and Abj Champ for the most part.

It does require one extra feat though, and that is pretty rough on a gish build. Also the BAB loss is harsh on a standard gish build. I normally don't use Spelldancer because it's kind of 3.0 and the requirements are crappy.

Also for that to work he'd need three extra feats. Persist, Extend, and Endurance. Also he'd need a way to void con damage, which isn't hard, but that is something that would have to be considered.

Spellsword is a good one level dip for gishes, Dragonslayer is also a good one level dip for gishes. It really depends on what you're looking for as far as build stuff.

[Snowbluff]

Also the BAB loss is harsh on a standard gish build. You still have 16 with the changes I suggest.

Also for that to work he'd need three extra feats. Persist, Extend, and Endurance. Also he'd need a way to void con damage, which isn't hard, but that is something that would have to be considered.
He's already getting persist. With the suggestion to get the fighter bonus feat wizard, the feats add up as well. I normally wouldn't use it either, but like I said the requirements overlap. Swiftblade has the class skills you need as well. Con damage only happens after at least the 5th round of dancing for him, so another 2 con gives 1 persist/day.

Learning Sheltered Vitality helps. Also, Rods of Bodily Restoration are pretty sweet.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

If FR material is on the table, consider grabbing militia instead of MWP, as it gives access to all martial weapons rather than just one. To meet the other feat requirements, the martial wizard ACF from Unearthed Arcana can also help somewhat, but that means no spontaneous divination at 5th level.

A point of favor to Abjurant Champion 5 over Spelldancer 1 is that it allows you to quicken dispel magic and other 3rd level abjuration spells.

[AMFV]

You still have 16 with the changes I suggest.
He's already getting persist. With the suggestion to get the fighter bonus feat wizard, the feats add up as well.

Ah, well that's different then, if he's already grabbing persist, I personally dislike persist focused builds, because gishes tend to be more vulnerable to dispel magic, so I like to have buffs that aren't as much of a pain to recreate. But that's my personal preference, and if he's already going the other way with that.

[Snowbluff]

Wait, MWP? No! Play an Elf or an Outsider like a Neraph. :smalltongue:


Ah, well that's different then, if he's already grabbing persist, I personally dislike persist focused builds, because gishes tend to be more vulnerable to dispel magic, so I like to have buffs that aren't as much of a pain to recreate. But that's my personal preference, and if he's already going the other way with that.

Yeah, the trick is making Haste Persistable with Ocular spell. Since it's an Ex effect for Swiftblades, they get to keep the benefits in an AMF and it's can't dispelled. :smallbiggrin:

[AMFV]

Wait, MWP? No! Play and Elf or an Outsider like a Neraph. :smalltongue:



Yeah, the trick is making Haste Persistable with Ocular spell. Since it's an Ex effect for Swiftblades, they get to keep the benefits in an AMF and it's can't dispelled. :smallbiggrin:


MWP is fine if you use Martial Wizard to get it, it does give you the skill points also, and is better than being an elf, because then you'd have to be an elf, and who wants that. Unless you go Elven generalist.

To me it lasts long enough with the auto-extend that I never have to worry, with int to initiative I go first, and swift cast it. Getting persistent haste isn't worth four feats worth of investment, although the other persistent things are nice, but again not my style.

[Karnith]

Yeah, the trick is making Haste Persistable with Ocular spell. Since it's an Ex effect for Swiftblades, they get to keep the benefits in an AMF and it's can't dispelled. :smallbiggrin:
Do Swiftblade class features work with Swift Haste (which is Persist-eligible out of the box, albeit not on the Wizard spell list)? It looks like no, but I'm a little hazy on how interactions with spells like that ("as X but...") work.

MWP is fine if you use Martial Wizard to get it,
If you're talking about this variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard), that doesn't actually work as-written because Martial Weapon Proficiency isn't a Fighter Bonus Feat.

[AMFV]

If you're talking about this variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard), that doesn't actually as-written because Martial Weapon Proficiency isn't a Fighter Bonus Feat.

Wow, that's just terrible, although you could use a human feat for that, and martial for the other prereqs. That's really bizarre.

[Karnith]

Wow, that's just terrible, although you could use a human feat for that, and martial for the other prereqs. That's really bizarre.
To be fair, Fighters normally get all Martial Weapon proficiencies for free, so it wouldn't make sense for them to have to take MWP. The problem is that Wizards weren't originally intended to get Fighter Bonus Feats without Fighter levels.

[AMFV]

To be fair, Fighters normally get all Martial Weapon proficiencies for free, so it wouldn't make sense for them to have to take MWP. The problem is that Wizards weren't originally intended to get Fighter Bonus Feats without Fighter levels.

True, I still hold that it wouldn't be too bad to do on a human. Not nearly as good as a Neraph, but better than most elf variants. Unless you're going Elven Generalist. Even without the fighter bonus, you should still be okay for the feats.

[tricktroller]

Hey folks! Thanks for so much feedback! Here are a few answers to my thought process and some rebuttals to suggestions.

I plan to use arcane thesis (Haste) and persist to use 8th level slots to make myself and my party have non dispellable all day hastes that work in anti magic fields. With some feat work I can take the counterspelling feats with 5th level abj. champ to also be annoying as hell to other spellcasters, I cannot take martial wizard acf because I am using the feats for things already (Eidetic Spellcaster at 1st and Extend Spell at 5th)

Swift haste is a different spell and as a DM I would say no to it, but that's just me.

I kind of like the build the way it is, I don't see a whole lot of need for spelldancer giving me an extra persisted spell. The main reason I am taking it is for the haste so I can have double standard actions all day.

[Vincent Dragon]

I present you the Swiftdancer:

Human
Level 1 – Wizard 1 (Fighter Feat Variant) – Bonus Feat (Dodge), Extend Spell, and Extra Feat (Militia)
Level 2 – Wizard 2
Level 3 – Wizard 3 – Combat Casting
Level 4 – Wizard 4
Level 5 – Wizard 5 – Bonus Feat (Mobility)
Level 6 – Wizard 6 – Endurance
Level 7 – Swiftblade 1
Level 8 – Swiftblade 2
Level 9 – Swiftblade 3 – Persistent Spell
Level 10 – Spelldancer 1
Level 11 – Swiftblade 4
Level 12 – Swiftblade 5 – Ocular Spell
Level 13 – Swiftblade 6
Level 14 – Swiftblade 7
Level 15 – Swiftblade 8 – Quicken Spell?
Level 16 – Swiftblade 9
Level 17 – Abjurant Champion 1
Level 18 – Abjurant Champion 2 – I don't know
Level 19 – Abjurant Champion 3
Level 20 – Abjurant Champion 4

Turns into a Necropolitan and rules the game with Spelldance.

[Rebel7284]

I plan to use arcane thesis (Haste) and persist to use 8th level slots to make myself and my party have non dispellable all day hastes that work in anti magic fields.



Haste has this: Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)

You can only persist spells with fixed or personal range. Close is NOT fixed.

This is why people are talking about Ocular Spell.

Also, I feel that Fortified Hustle only applies to yourself and is still a spell effect for others. I can see it being ruled either way however.

[Snowbluff]

Do Swiftblade class features work with Swift Haste (which is Persist-eligible out of the box, albeit not on the Wizard spell list)? It looks like no, but I'm a little hazy on how interactions with spells like that ("as X but...") work.


I would say yes, since it functions as it when it's cast. Otherwise, it's a different spell that can't be used to qualify for Swiftblade.

[Emperor Tippy]

MWP is fine if you use Martial Wizard to get it, it does give you the skill points also, and is better than being an elf, because then you'd have to be an elf, and who wants that. Unless you go Elven generalist

Elf gets you four feats, which is very nice for a gish build (which are almost always feat starved).

[tricktroller]

yes but none of them are a greatsword and if I have to burn a feat (either by taking MWP or losing the human bonus feat I might as well get the exact weapon I want or at least close enough.

[Emperor Tippy]

yes but none of them are a greatsword and if I have to burn a feat (either by taking MWP or losing the human bonus feat I might as well get the exact weapon I want or at least close enough.

That is what Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos is for.

[Draz74]

Tippy, I really don't think most DMs allow Chaos Shuffle ...


Turns into a Necropolitan and rules the game with Spelldance.

Would you still go Necropolitan with the OP's stats (i.e. a 16 Constitution)? I wouldn't, but then I'm not the most experienced with Necropolitan strategies in general.

[Vincent Dragon]

Tippy, I really don't think most DMs allow Chaos Shuffle ...



Would you still go Necropolitan with the OP's stats (i.e. a 16 Constitution)? I wouldn't, but then I'm not the most experienced with Necropolitan strategies in general.

Of course not, he should put this score into Wis, then put that 10 into Con, or something like that.