Ranger/Telflammar build

[PraxisVetli]

So, I want to do a Telflammar Shadowlord build, and I'm looking at specializing in Ranged Weaponry.
Race is Shadow-Walker Poison Dusk Lizardfolk, giving me
+4 Dex, -2 Cha
+4 AC, (+1 size, +3 Natural)
+1 Attack rolls, possibly negated by the -1 in bright light
+13 to Hide (+4 Small, +5 Chameleon skin, +4 Shadow-walker)
+4 to Balance, Jump and Swim
Nets and Bolas as Martial Weapons (nets are iffy on usage, but fully intend to utilize Bolas)
Progessive SLA's
Hold Breath (never needed until it's REALLY needed)
Low-light and Darkvision

And that's all pretty cool, especially for a +2 LA.
But classes, that's where I'm having the trouble.
Telflammar Shadowlord requires a bit to enter.
Feats: Blind-Fight, Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack
Skills: 10 in both Hide and Move Silent
Sneak Attack +2d6
**I might be able to convince my DM to transfer Spring Attack to Shot on the Run, since it fits my build much better and is the equivocal feat
Now, whats the easiest/quickest way to qualify?
Obviously, Fighter/ Rouge could handle it, maybe some Ranger to fill in the levels while I top out the Skills prerequisites?

Rouge1 Blind-Fight
Fighter1 Dodge
Rogue2 Mobility
Rogue3 (fulfilling +2d6 Sneak Attack)
Fighter2 Spring Attack
Ranger1 Point Blank Shot
Ranger2 (giving me Rapid Shot)
Telflammar1
Telflammar2 Manyshot
Telflammar3
Telflammar4

And herein lies my Problem. How do I finish off the build? Peerless Archer is alright, and Power Shot is nice, but its 2 Feats I don't have (Quick Draw and Far Shot), and is the 3 levels really worth it? Power Shot gives a 1:1 ratio of BAB to damage. But Manyshot allows for an extra arrow (roughly 3 points of damage on a Small Longbow) for only a -2 penalty. Isn't this a much better deal?
So if I don't do Peerless Archer, the next Ideal is Deepwood Sniper.
Deepwood Sniper also requires 2 more feats, Far Shot and Weapon Focus.
However, where Peerless needs the 3 levels, Deepwood is a safe 2 level dip.
So a better deal?
But what to do with the feat prereqs? Is trading out Manyshot and Point Blank Shot worth Keen Arrows and +1 Crit Multiplier?

I'm a little lost, can the Playgrounders help me?
I should note, the Campaign is starting at level 1, I don't know if LA buyoff or anything is on the table. But all Books (no Dragon Magazine, though I believe Compendium is kosher) are allowed, so Most Everything is fair game.

[PraxisVetli]

...somebody?
anybody...?

[gorfnab]

Archery and Telflammar usually don't mix well. Shadow pouncing works best with TWF, since you can full attack after a pounce. One build I have seen for a ranger based Telflammar is Mysitc Ranger 12/ Swordsage 2/ Telflammar Shadowlord 6. This nets you Dim Door (Sword of the Arcane Order), TWF chain, sneak attack (Assassins Stance) and more teleportation effects (shadow jaunt/stride) from Swordsage.

[PraxisVetli]

Archery and Telflammar usually don't mix well. Shadow pouncing works best with TWF, since you can full attack after a pounce. One build I have seen for a ranger based Telflammar is Mysitc Ranger 12/ Swordsage 2/ Telflammar Shadowlord 6. This nets you Dim Door (Sword of the Arcane Order), TWF chain, sneak attack (Assassins Stance) and more teleportation effects (shadow jaunt/stride) from Swordsage.

Why wouldn't it mix?
the Shadow Pounce looks like a great way to stay out of reach, while still doing damage.
Adding a Splitting Bow, damage output should be fairly decent.
Admittedly, not the most optimal, but a super ninja jet black lizard guy peppering your face is Cool.

[Andezzar]

Where can I find the shadow-walker template?

[PraxisVetli]

Where can I find the shadow-walker template?

Unapproachable East, pg 70
Its pretty cool.

[Karnith]

Why wouldn't it mix?
the Shadow Pounce looks like a great way to stay out of reach, while still doing damage.
You need to teleport into melee range and be wielding a weapon with which you can make a melee attack in order to use Shadow Pounce, which kind of defeats the purpose of being an archer. Per Unapproachable East:

The shadowlord must have line of sight on his intended target from his original location, and the spot to which he teleports must be a place from which he can launch a melee attack at the intended target with whatever weapon he has in hand at the beginning of his action.(Emphasis mine)

[PraxisVetli]

You need to teleport into melee range in order to use Shadow Pounce, which usually defeats the purpose of being an archer. Per Unapproachable East:
(Emphasis mine)

Alright, fair enough.
Totally missed that.
Can I warblade/swordsage bloodstorm blade?
then I could ranged melee, maybe trade the bow for somethin funky like Annulet or Chakrams.
edit:
actually, I could put warblade as 6th level and Bloodstorm at 7th and 8th, still Telflammar at 9th,
lose Rapid Shot, but I can take that at 12 from Bloodstorm 3's fighter feat.
then would it work?

[danzibr]

You might want to go, say, Whisper Gnome over Poison Dusk Lizardfolk. That LA hurts.

[PraxisVetli]

You might want to go, say, Whisper Gnome over Poison Dusk Lizardfolk. That LA hurts.

I'm actually quite enamoured with lil scaly, been a wanting to play one a long while.
Less than optimal, the whole build is really, but I like it!

[lsfreak]

Note that shadowpounce requires you to be able to make a melee attack, not that the attack has to be melee. You can get around this several ways, the most straightforward being that you can make a melee attack as-is with a bow, it just counts as an improvised weapon in such a role. Another is to get the bow that also counts as a staff. Both of those still leave you open to AoOs for firing, though, so grab reach somehow (Deformity (Tall) maybe?) so that you can launch a melee attack from 10 feet away, out of AoO range for Medium-sized enemies.

Of course, if your idea was to teleport around at a distance from your foes and pelt them with arrows, this doesn't work.

[PraxisVetli]

Of course, if your idea was to teleport around at a distance from your foes and pelt them with arrows, this doesn't work.

Yeah.
that's exactly what my idea was.



though now debating dumping the whole thing, being a blackscale, taking some warrior-leady class (marshal? crusader? Bardadin?,) and Tribal chieftan as a a prc leading an army.
upon further investigation, Blackscale is a +3LA, and has no info on PCs.