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Ducklord
2013-12-11, 02:06 PM
Thought experiment time!

What do you think would happen, if people in a vanilla D&D world would spontaneously start turning sorcerous at a rate of 20% - 50%? Politically speaking, that is.

Would monarchies still function? Since peasants would no longer simply be defenseless civilians, but potential spellcasters, would the king even be able to keep them in check? And if not, what do you think would be more likely, a more liberalized monarchy, or would monarchies simply collapse?

What about democracies, could they still function? And if yes, what would they look like in your opinion?

QuintonBeck
2013-12-11, 02:29 PM
If the commoners turn from Commoners to Sorcerers they're still 1st level squishies with bad HD except now they have a limited range of tricks. If they stay first level and there's plenty of 2-3 level warriors to beat down any rebellious ones I don't see it changing that much.
This is already assuming that high level magic users haven't taken over everything anyway either because they don't care to, are too busy with other things, or they don't exist.

Kaveman26
2013-12-11, 02:32 PM
There are a series of books by Anne bishop where various people either have sorcerers blood or they don't. Those who do are part of a caste system measured by mystical jewels, they are the reigning nobility and ruling class. Everyone else is just serfs and throwaway commoners. Would probably look like that.

Wharrrrrrgarbl
2013-12-11, 03:40 PM
Remembering that most people don't have a con bonus or even above-average HP on their first hit die, most of those warriors would have around 4 or 5 HP, with a few 2nd level veterans with 9 HP. With those kinds of stats, there are a lot of 1st level spells which are real threats - magic missile, burning hands, shocking grasp, true strike, color spray, chill touch, sleep, etc. Above and beyond that, there are a lot of spells which would be handy when running away: charm person, hold portal, expeditious retreat, grease, mage armor, mount, etc.

So I think that, while no one sorceror will have all of those, the odds of any given sorceror having a lethal or extremely inconvenient spell available makes mass suppression unworkable unless the goons in charge of it are a few levels higher than the mass of sorcerors. Of course, the flip side of any suppression is that a few lucky sorcerors will start to level up, at which point the goons in charge are totally screwed.

Scow2
2013-12-11, 03:43 PM
Don't forget that half of the goons in charge are suddenly sorcerers as well!

ReaderAt2046
2013-12-11, 04:26 PM
I suspect it would affect the world much like gun availability has affected ours.

nedz
2013-12-11, 04:29 PM
I suspect it would affect the world much like gun availability has affected ours.

Queue the political debate about Sorcerer Control ...

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-12-11, 04:42 PM
Don't forget that half of the goons in charge are suddenly sorcerers as well!
Exactly, and the ones in charge probably have more HD to use. So it wouldn't necessarily change the situation, it would cause it to get messier and bloodier, with more slinging-about of magic.

Which would probably lead to heavy regulation of magic.

Craft (Cheese)
2013-12-11, 05:05 PM
Important question: Do characters pick what spells they acquire as a Sorcerer, or is it random?

Cause, you know, characters that get Sleep or Color Spray are much more dangerous than those who get stuck with Magic Aura.

Ducklord
2013-12-11, 06:32 PM
There are a series of books by Anne bishop where various people either have sorcerers blood or they don't. Those who do are part of a caste system measured by mystical jewels, they are the reigning nobility and ruling class. Everyone else is just serfs and throwaway commoners. Would probably look like that.

Hmm, I don't think this is really ho it would work out, since people with magic powers would be distributed randomly and as long as a family has some magic users, they would probably be taken care of. Also, don't forget that other sorts of PC classes still exist and an axe to the head will kill you just as dead as a fireball.

Ducklord
2013-12-11, 06:37 PM
Don't forget that half of the goons in charge are suddenly sorcerers as well!

Yeah, but ordinary farmers usually heavily outnumber goons.


Important question: Do characters pick what spells they acquire as a Sorcerer, or is it random?

Cause, you know, characters that get Sleep or Color Spray are much more dangerous than those who get stuck with Magic Aura.

The spells would be related to the character's personality, so they basically pick them.

LibraryOgre
2013-12-11, 07:25 PM
In a vanilla D&D world, I don't think there would be much long-term effect... you'd push more towards a Tippyverse, if magic is hereditary you'll have more magic over time. Short term, you might have some upheaval, but most people aren't going to overthrow the world just because they have a few more tricks.

Grinner
2013-12-11, 09:54 PM
In a vanilla D&D world, I don't think there would be much long-term effect... you'd push more towards a Tippyverse, if magic is hereditary you'll have more magic over time. Short term, you might have some upheaval, but most people aren't going to overthrow the world just because they have a few more tricks.

Contrary to what Disney would have anyone believe, I don't think marriage between the nobility and the serfs was all too common.

JHShadon
2013-12-11, 11:12 PM
I think the Dwarven civilization would be mostly unchanged because of their CHA penalty.

A Tad Insane
2013-12-12, 12:16 AM
A mass murder at every wizard academy, with the blood of the slain students spelling out "Who's the best now, pointdexter?!"

Slipperychicken
2013-12-12, 01:06 AM
Would it much different from Drow and other races. which naturally have spell-like abilities?

The common folk would gain some degree of power (i.e. numbers start mattering a lot more than equipment), and states which were quickest to take advantage of this development would surely gain an edge over others. Untrained peasants-turned-sorcerers would become more valuable combatants, and states which swiftly socialized them into their armed forces would reap the benefits both on the field and at home.

Since Burning Hands is a 1st level spell, I imagine a lot more buildings would be made of fireproof materials.

You would have to feel bad for people who get saddled with worthless spells like Jump and Hold Portal.

BeerMug Paladin
2013-12-12, 04:22 AM
Things would slowly change over time to gear things to a higher magic world, with less hard labor jobs and work and more magical construction and artifice filling the world. Magical industrialization would kick into gear.

In the short term? Things wouldn't change all too much. Humans are the most common influence in most campaign worlds, and most of the time, humans are also generally neutral, which means they're okay with keeping their heads down and keeping the status quo. The sudden power given to everyone doesn't mean anything if people aren't motivated to do something with it.

The immediate changes will probably more likely be in the mundane, fun, utility spells being made much more common.

BWR
2013-12-12, 05:51 AM
Read up on the empire of Alphatia. ca. 50% of the population are casters (which is down from 99% on their original homeworld)
Also, Netheril had a high percentage of casters. Mostly minor stuff, though.

SethoMarkus
2013-12-12, 09:03 AM
I'd expect there to be a lot of pointless fighting at the beginning, when commoners first realize they are being given these powers. Not all-out rebellion, mind you, but the minority of peasants who were unhappy and on the verge of rebellion to begin with would probably use this as an opportunity to fight; those that were extremists even before gaining spells. If magic already existed before this, then I'd expect these minor uprisings to be stomped pretty hard and fast.

Now, if there was no magic in the world before this and suddenly 20-50% of the population found themselves with new, strange powers, I'd expect something more along the lines of X-Men. You'd have a group trying to suppress the sorcerers, a group trying to use the powers for good, a group trying to use the powers for greed/evil, a group of sorcerers trying to establish themselves as the new master race, a group trying to lay low and hide, and various other factions with differing degrees of apathy towards the whole situation.

Joe the Rat
2013-12-12, 09:25 AM
Queue the political debate about Sorcerer Control ...
Nah, you just have to make sure all of your resident Sorcerers are registered with the Crown, per the Sorcerer Registry Act.

Chancellor Kelley was a very vocal proponent of this policy... :smallwink:

Reference aside, There's probably going to be a lot of immediate panic and upheaval. Governments would be inclined to train their own - or recruit those who show stronger potential - to defend their holdings. Magic is more likely to be used in petty disputes. I could easily see the populations self-organize along sorcerer/non-sorcerer lines, particularly among common folk. Every bandit group will have at least a couple of sorcerers - or be predominantly sorcerers, depending on the political climate. Keep in mind that for Humans, most common folk won't be able to get past 1st level spells (CHA 11).

With a large chunk of the population getting 4 cantrips and 2 1st level arcane spells - let's assume half of which are selected at random - and subject to all the usual limitations... I think the number of adventurers might go up a bit. Keep in mind we aren't talking about getting all of the class skills or proficiencies here - you're just waking up with spellcasting. We aren't handing out familiars either. Although that could be part of the package. You wake up one morning, there's a tiny viper on your blanket talking to you, and half the people in your thorp look like extras from His Dark Materials.

If your wizards aren't too snooty, I could see a mass effort to recruit/train/study the spontaneously spontaneous casters... if for no other reason than to stay on top of what the heck is going on.

Perseus
2013-12-12, 01:57 PM
Ive always wondered what D&D would be like if age and level corresponded with each other.

Say:
Age 0 - 19 you are level 1. At level 20 you are level 2.
After this for every 2 years you gain 1 level.

With people playing casters in that system you could have some crazy rebellions I guess.

Slipperychicken
2013-12-12, 02:08 PM
Ive always wondered what D&D would be like if age and level corresponded with each other.

Say:
Age 0 - 19 you are level 1. At level 20 you are level 2.
After this for every 2 years you gain 1 level.


I would think that one would gain levels much slower than that to represent skill growth. Maybe NPCs would have their first class level and starting skill points and feats by adulthood, then gain another level after 5, 15, 35, and 70* years of work thereafter. Old people wouldn't have an OP number of hit points, since their Con penalties would balance them out.

Of course, with retraining in effect, one could always go to school and retrain Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) for Skill Focus (Knowledge: (Engineering)), or trade in Barbarian levels for Expert levels.


*I totally stole those numbers from ACKS, which gives proficiencies after that much time.

LibraryOgre
2013-12-12, 02:37 PM
Ive always wondered what D&D would be like if age and level corresponded with each other.

Say:
Age 0 - 19 you are level 1. At level 20 you are level 2.
After this for every 2 years you gain 1 level.

With people playing casters in that system you could have some crazy rebellions I guess.

My rule of thumb in 3.x was that your level (as a human) roughly corresponded to your age in decades.

10-19? Probably 1st level
20-29? Probably 2nd level
30-39? Probably 3rd level.

Sure, there are lots of exceptions... old people who learn nothing, young people with a lot of experience... but if I need to wing the level of someone, I go by their "human age" and assign a number.