Half-Minotaur and You

[GhengisConrad]

So... who allows this into their games?

If you do allow it, does it really only cost +1 Level Adjustment? I've read somewhere that when you go up from Med to Large it would also be another +1 Level Adjustment. Does anyone have documentation for that assertion?

My uses is for to make a anthropomorphic raven, or a wind mephit, Medium not small, and the only ways I've found to do such a thing would be to add the half-ogre template or the half-minotaur template....

I wanted to take a poll... but I can't find the option for that in this forum...

[Flickerdart]

If you do allow it, does it really only cost +1 Level Adjustment? I've read somewhere that when you go up from Med to Large it would also be another +1 Level Adjustment.
The size increase rules Half-Minotaur uses are monster advancement rules, which have a +1 CR cost associated with them. However, PCs don't have CR, so this doesn't happen to them.

[Asteron]

We allowed it in the gestalt Red Hand of Doom campaign. He had a Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer and went Barb/Warhulk//Cleric. It was pretty much charge and kill for for anything...

However, that campaign was pretty much a test in how ridiculous we could get and not a good benchmark for how the system actually works (cause Houserules...)

It could stand to be +2 or +3 as written.

[Know(Nothing)]

I'm pretty lenient on stuff that improves non-casters.

[OldTrees1]

I allow Half-Minotaur minus the size modifiers to stats. So they get Large size, +10 speed, +4 nat AC, Str +4, Con +2, Int -2 and some minor traits.

[GhengisConrad]

Savage species outlines that being 'small' is worth -1... therefor it would stand to reason prehaps jumping from small is worth +1 by itself, then also Nat armor up to 5 is worth another +1, another 5' of reach is worth +1, and unbalanced scores is worth +1... so yeah.. worth a good +2 or +3 in my book... but its not like I go through rebalancing everything else in the game by the savage species 'acid test'....

[The Viscount]

Being small isn't worth -1 LA, though. There are a number of small races that are LA +0 or +1.

[Coidzor]

I allow Half-Minotaur minus the size modifiers to stats. So they get Large size, +10 speed, +4 nat AC, Str +4, Con +2, Int -2 and some minor traits.

Exactly. The main problem with Half-Minotaur stems from the combination of an increase to physical ability scores along with increasing them again due to the increase in size. Make the abillity score increase more reasonable and it's a very solid LA+1, but not overtly problematic.

I wouldn't use it as written, but I would use it with modification. Same with Feral and Half-Ogre.

[Curmudgeon]

I tend to allow most things which are legal by the rules. Half-Minotaur increases size for Small and Medium creatures (i.e., all the common D&D PC race choices). For a Small creature, this size boost involves a net gain of +4 to physical abilities. For a Medium creature it's a much more impressive +10 total, plus a +2 boost to natural armor. However, that makes the character Large all the time (barring magic, that is). Given that (as already noted) most D&D characters are Medium size or smaller, this is going to have significant consequences. Yes, the reach is advantageous. However, being subject to the squeezing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#squeezing) rules is a major drawback, and that's going to happen whenever the ceiling is below character height. If the space is narrow as well as low-ceilinged, the character will move at only 1/4 speed because multiplying real-world values (like distance and speed) follow normal (not D&D) math.

If a Large character is overshadowing the smaller PCs, it's easy enough to arrange for a bunch of encounters in spaces suitable only for Medium and smaller characters, where the Large PC is seriously disadvantaged.

[Slipperychicken]

If you're playing at a reasonably optimized level, then it's a nice thing for melee. If there aren't any other PC melee guys to overshadow, then it doesn't matter, and is worth a level IMO. If you're playing with low-op melees, then it's likely to overshadow them.


Honestly, this is one of very few templates which I think are worthwhile for melee, without being disgustingly OP. If one is losing out on a whole level, this is the kind of bonus one should get IMO.

[The Viscount]

I wouldn't use it as written, but I would use it with modification. Same with Feral and Half-Ogre.

Which Half-Ogre are you referring to? The Dragon Magazine Template is regarded as unbalanced by some, but the Race in Savage Species has been updated to LA+2 in Races of Destiny.

[Coidzor]

Which Half-Ogre are you referring to? The Dragon Magazine Template is regarded as unbalanced by some, but the Race in Savage Species has been updated to LA+2 in Races of Destiny.

Specifically the template as part of the triumvirate of LA+1 templates that are more than worth it, but as I recall, there were tweaks I wanted to make to the race as well in either incarnation.

[One Step Two]

As an alternative, there's the Minotaur Race from Dragonlance campaign setting, they are Medium Sized, but can pick up a feat which gives them essentially Powerful build. No LA, one feat tax. Oh, and you can grab Scent as a feat too with that race.

[GhengisConrad]

As an alternative, there's the Minotaur Race from Dragonlance campaign setting, they are Medium Sized, but can pick up a feat which gives them essentially Powerful build. No LA, one feat tax. Oh, and you can grab Scent as a feat too with that race.

The point is to bump up size categories for small creatures.

[The Viscount]

If you're playing a small race, why do you want it to be larger? If it is for melee reasons, why are you picking a small race to begin with? Is there something in particular you are looking for? If so, it might be possible to achieve with other races.

[Slipperychicken]

If you're playing a small race, why do you want it to be larger? If it is for melee reasons, why are you picking a small race to begin with? Is there something in particular you are looking for? If so, it might be possible to achieve with other races.

Maybe somebody has a character concept of a tall, horned goblin who prefers to fight in melee is strong and dextrous enough to try both melee and ranged combat?


In terms of game mechanics, one can apply Half-Minotaur to a Small race, get really nice stat boosts, and wind up as Medium. This allows them to be good at melee without facing hassle to go indoors. This is very nice with Strongheart Halflings, because their bonus feat can help with melee.

[GhengisConrad]

If you're playing a small race, why do you want it to be larger? If it is for melee reasons, why are you picking a small race to begin with? Is there something in particular you are looking for? If so, it might be possible to achieve with other races.

Because I enjoy breaking things. Its my personal fetish. I always went through all the dungeons in Zelda to get the last weapon, so I could fight the first boss with it before getting any of the other pendants/crystals.

What I did not realize until I starting googleing dnd stuff, is that the game is just too easy to break....

its like, last weapon against the boss fun, game genie bad. And some stuff just feels like a game genie... and I don't know where how why when to draw that line.... frustrating.

anyway....
Horn attacks, natural armor, size increase.

This brings into play Wind Mephlings and Anthro Ravens. In my group, everyone is airborn to avoid attacks. I don't want to dimensiondoor/shadowpounce behind them without wings and fall to the ground, and I don't want to rely on an item that can be broken or taken away or denied.