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Grod_The_Giant
2013-12-11, 11:14 PM
This entry is a bit shorter than normal, since I already have working paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12150015#post12150015)and ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14192508#post14192508)rewrites. So instead of reposting the entire classes, I'll just post the revised spells sections. They should plug neatly enough into any version you care to use.

First, both classes use the following table for spells/day:
{table=head]Level|0-lv|1st|2nd|3rd|4th
1|2|—|—|—|—
2|2|—|—|—|—
3|2|—|—|—|—
4|2|2|—|—|—
5|3|2|—|—|—
6|3|2|—|—|—
7|3|2|2|—|—
8|3|3|2|—|—
9|4|3|2|—|—
10|4|3|2|2|—
11|4|3|3|2|—
12|4|4|3|2|—
13|4|4|3|2|2
14|5|4|3|3|2
15|5|4|4|3|2
16|5|4|4|3|2
17|5|5|4|3|3
18|5|5|4|4|3
19|5|5|4|4|3
20|5|5|5|4|3[/table]

Paladin

Spells: A paladin casts divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list. A paladin automatically knows all spells on the Paladin spell list, and can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time.

To cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the paladin’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. The paladin does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does.

Paladin Spell List

0-Level Paladin Spells (Orisons)

Axiomatic Water (M) (SpC): Makes lawful-aligned axiomatic water.
Bless Water: Makes holy water.
Bless Weapon: Weapon strikes true against evil foes.
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or small object.
Detect Undead: Reveals undead within 60 ft.
Guidance: +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Virtue: Subject gains 1 temporary hp.


1st Level Paladin Spells

Bless: Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and +1 on saves against fear.
Bear’s Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Bull’s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
Comprehend Languages: You understand all spoken and written languages.
Divine Favor: You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls.
Eagle’s Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
Enlarge Person: Humanoid creature doubles in size.
Lionheart (SpC): Subject gains immunity to fear.
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Moment of Clarity (SpC): Subject gains second save against mind-affecting spell or ability.
Protection from Chaos/Evil: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Resurgence (SpC): You grant subject a second chance at a saving throw.
Rhino’s Rush (SpC): Next charge deals double damage.
See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects.
Sense Heretic (SpC): Glow reveals when evil creature is near.
Shield of Faith: Aura grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.


2nd Level Paladin Spells

Angelskin (SpC): Lawful good creature gains DR 5/evil.
Aura of Glory (SpC): Remove any fear effect from allies.
Dispel Magic: Cancels spells and magical effects.
Divine Insight (SpC): You gain insight bonus of 5 + caster level on one single skill check.
Heroism: Gives +2 bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks.
Holy Mount (SpC): Special mount gains celestial template.
Invisibility Purge: Dispels invisibility within 5 ft./level.
Knight’s Move (SpC): You instantly move to flank a subject.
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil: As protection from chaos/evil, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Magic Weapon, Greater: +1 bonus/four levels (max +5).
Resist Energy: Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Shield Other (F): You take half of subject’s damage.
Zeal (SpC): You move through foes to attack the enemy you want.
Zone of Truth: Subjects within range cannot lie.


3rd Level Paladin Spells

Death Ward: Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects.
Dimensional Anchor: Bars extradimensional movement.
Discern Lies: Reveals deliberate falsehoods.
Find the Gap (SpC): Your attacks ignore armor and natural armor.
Freedom of Movement: Subject moves normally despite impediments.
Heal Mount: As heal on warhorse or other special mount.
Mantle of Good/Law (SpC): You gain SR 12 + caster level against spells with opposite alignment descriptor.
Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse.
Resurgence, Mass (SpC): As resurgence, but multiple subjects.
Tongues: Speak any language.
Weapon of the Deity (SpC): Your weapon gains enhancement bonus and special ability.


4th Level Paladin Spells

Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification.
Dismissal: Forces a creature to return to native plane.
Dispel Chaos/Evil: +4 bonus against attacks by chaotic/evil creatures.
Favor of The Martyr (SpC): Subject gains immunity to nonlethal damage, charm and compulsion effects, and other adverse conditions
Hallow (M): Designates location as holy.
Heal: Cures 10 points/level of damage, all diseases and mental conditions.
Heroism, Greater: Gives +4 bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks; immunity to fear; temporary hp.
Holy Sword: Weapon becomes +5, deals +2d6 damage against evil.
Lawful Sword (SpC): Weapon becomes +5 axiomatic weapon and emits magic circle against chaos.
Revenance (SpC): Restores dead creature to life for 1 minute/ level.
Righteous Aura: You detonate on death, healing good creatures and damaging others (2d6/level damage).
Righteous Might: Your size increases, and you gain combat bonuses.
Sacred Haven (SpC): Creatures gain +2 AC, retain Dex bonus, and you can lay on hands at range.
Spell Resistance: Subject gains SR 12 + level.
True Seeing (M): Lets you see all things as they really are.



Ranger

Spells: A ranger casts divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list. A ranger automatically knows all spells on the ranger spell list, and can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time.

To cast a spell, a ranger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger’s Wisdom modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score.

Ranger Spell List

0-level Ranger Spells (Orisons)

Detect Animals or Plants: Detects kinds of animals or plants.
Detect Favored Enemy (SpC): You know if favored enemies are within 60 ft.
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or object.
Detect Snares and Pits: Reveals natural or primitive traps.
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Know Direction: You discern north.
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object.
Purify Food and Drink: Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.


1st Level Ranger Spells

Animal Messenger: Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place.
Bear’s Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Camouflage (SpC): Grants +10 bonus on Hide checks.
Cat’s Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level.
Charm Animal: Makes one animal your friend.
Embrace the Wild (SpC): You gain an animal’s senses for 10 minutes/level.
Entangle: Plants entangle everyone in 40-ft.-radius circle.
Guided Shot (SpC): You ignore distance, cover, concealment penalties with your ranged attacks for 1 round.
Hunter’s Mercy (SpC): Your next hit with a bow is automatically a critical hit.
Lightfoot (SpC): Your move does not provoke attacks of opportunity for 1 round.
Living Prints (SpC): You perceive tracks as if they had just been made.
Longstrider: Increases your speed.
Marked Object (SpC): You gain bonus to track a specific being.
Speak with Animals: You can communicate with animals.
Surefoot (SpC): +10 bonus on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks.


2nd Level Ranger Spells

Barkskin: Grants +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor.
Burrow (SpC): Subject can burrow with a speed of 30 feet.
Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft.
Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it attacks.
Haste, Swift (SpC): Move faster, +1 on attacks, AC, Refl ex saves.
Lion’s Charge (SpC): You can make a full attack on a charge for 1 round.
Locate Object: Senses direction toward object (specific or type).
One with the Land (SpC): Link with nature gives a +2 bonus on nature-related skill checks.
See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects.
Snare: Creates a magic booby trap.
Speak with Plants: You can talk to normal plants and plant creatures.
Train Animal (SpC): Affected animal gains additional tricks equal to 1/2 caster level for 1 hour/level.
Tremorsense (SpC): Grants tremorsense to a range of 30 feet.
Wind Wall: Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.


3rd Level Ranger Spells

Arrow Storm (SpC): You make one ranged attack against each foe within one range increment.
Blade Storm (SpC): You make melee attacks against every foe you threaten.
Blade Thirst (SpC): Slashing weapon glows and gains +3 bonus.
Bottle of Smoke (F) (SpC): Uncorking bottle creates fast horse made of smoke.
Command Plants: Sway the actions of one or more plant creatures.
Dimension Door: Teleports you short distance.
Find the Gap (SpC): Your attacks ignore armor and natural armor.
Haste: One creature/level moves faster, +1 on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves.
Invisibility, Greater: As invisibility, but subject can attack and stay invisible.
Locate Creature: Indicates direction to familiar creature.
Mark of the Hunter (SpC): Rune on creature makes it easier to attack.
Plant Growth: Grows vegetation, improves crops.
Secure Shelter: Creates sturdy cottage.
Tree Shape: You look exactly like a tree for 1 hour/level.


4th Level Ranger Spells

Commune with Nature: Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level.
Deeper Darkvision (SpC): Subject can see 90 ft. in magical darkness.
Foebane (SpC): Your weapon becomes +5 and deals +2d6 damage against a favored enemy.
Freedom of Movement: Subject moves normally despite impediments.
Implacable Pursuer (SpC): You know where prey is, as long as it’s moving.
Land Womb (SpC): You and one creature/level hide within the earth.
Mislead: Turns you invisible and creates illusory double.
Nondetection (M): Hides subject from divination, scrying.
Overland Flight: You fly at a speed of 40 ft. and can hustle over long distances.
Swamp Stride (SpC): As tree stride, but with bodies of water.
Tree Stride: Step from one tree to another far away.
Wild Runner (SpC): Change into centaur, gain some abilities.

Just to Browse
2013-12-11, 11:26 PM
While I would prefer a class rewrite (paladin is still underwhelming at high levels), this is a great idea.

However, the high-level spells are kinda sad. Greater Magic Weapon is not exciting at level 10and neither is magic circle. I'd look at the levels you're assigning the spells, and drop a lot of these spell levels.

nonsi
2013-12-12, 04:31 PM
Read Magic should not be on either Paladin's or Ranger's list.
Let them grow wings and polymorph if you feel like it, but don't give them Read Magic. A paladin/ranger toting scrolls is just so thematically wrong.

Virtue is a waste of time.

Angelskin - I don't like it for the same reason I don't like the Paladin being restricted to LG.

Other stuff seems Ok.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-12-12, 05:36 PM
While I would prefer a class rewrite (paladin is still underwhelming at high levels), this is a great idea.

However, the high-level spells are kinda sad. Greater Magic Weapon is not exciting at level 10and neither is magic circle. I'd look at the levels you're assigning the spells, and drop a lot of these spell levels.
I linked to full rewrites at the top, for those who are interested.

The thing about dropping spell levels is that if you do too much you wind up with a full caster whose list just happens to be 4 spell levels long. What cleric/druid spell levels would you fold into what paladin/ranger spell levels? Working on the assumption that you're not trying to fix the class by giving it loads more magic.


Read Magic should not be on either Paladin's or Ranger's list.
Let them grow wings and polymorph if you feel like it, but don't give them Read Magic. A paladin/ranger toting scrolls is just so thematically wrong.
Your opinion, not mine. As I see it, Read Magic (which is already on their lists by default, incidentally) is one of the fundamentally required spells, like Detect Magic. You can't use magic and not have it. So all of these rewrites get it, just like they all get Dispel Magic.


Virtue is a waste of time.
Many 0-level spells are, but I since it's not taking up space that could go to something, I figured there was no harm to leaving it there.


Angelskin - I don't like it for the same reason I don't like the Paladin being restricted to LG.
OK, don't cast it? Again, this is me matching the standard fluff. (And my personal fix, which emphasizes Good over law in the code, but still requires a LG alignment)

toapat
2013-12-12, 06:06 PM
you removed glory of the martyr from paladin.

as for what paladin and what Ranger can do magically, i feel like they should get magic that bleeds over from the arcane disciplines, not just the divine and primal ones.

Paladins are protectors, healers. Thematically magic which could fit under the descriptor of time could easily be on their spell list, being that a second could mean the difference between saving a life and it ending.

Rangers could easily get more travel or stealth related spells, like how in lord of the rings the rangers are primarily wanderers who blend in and go unnoticed as they travel the world, perhaps with Dimension Door as a 4th level spell.

T.G. Oskar
2013-12-12, 10:22 PM
you removed glory of the martyr from paladin.

Note that the only additions made to the Paladin spell list are from the PHB and the Spell Compendium. Glory of the Martyr is in the Book of Exalted Deeds, and was never ported to the SpC.


Paladins are protectors, healers. Thematically magic which could fit under the descriptor of time could easily be on their spell list, being that a second could mean the difference between saving a life and it ending.

Uh...what?

Perhaps it's my way of seeing the Paladin (and we've clashed about this a few times), but time isn't something I see the Paladin controlling. The only few spells that deal with time are Time Stop and Temporal Stasis, and they're far from the range of Paladin spellcasting (or even Bard spellcasting).

Personally, I find the Heroism/Good Hope/Greater Heroism line to fit thematically; they already have an aura that grants courage, so they indirectly inspire courage in their allies. Heroism grants most of those benefits, Greater Heroism adds that PLUS immunity to fear, and Good Hope is just a nice buff all around (one that adds damage, as well). They're straight from the PHB, as well, and it's odd that they're arcane, not divine, spells. It's twice as distressing when you have Heroes' Feast along, which I don't see as thematically fitting (then again, difference in visions).

Strange not to see Righteous Aura, though. Or Conviction; that spell grants a pretty hefty saves boost, and it's a 1st level spell. Or...where the heck is Shield Other? If they're protectors, they MUST have this spell. I understand if it's meant to exist as part of your Paladin project, but as you say that "they should plug neatly enough into any version you care to use", you have to consider that not all Paladin revisions have Shield Other as a class feature. Considering your version grants a sacred bonus instead of a deflection/resistance bonus, they're distinct enough. In fact, you can have two people protected at once this way. Your decision if you wish to add Glory of the Martyr, but I agree with toapat that it's a great spell, and worth raiding the BoED for it. Shield of Warding is also a great spell, and while it's really odd, I find Silverbeard interestingly nice.

Sure, it's a "Fixed-list" project, but limiting to only a small handful of spells won't help.


Rangers could easily get more travel or stealth related spells, like how in lord of the rings the rangers are primarily wanderers who blend in and go unnoticed as they travel the world, perhaps with Dimension Door as a 4th level spell.

Strangely enough, I agree with this sentiment. Invisibility and Haste would be fine additions, particularly as they have Swift Haste on their original list (speaking of which; where's Swift Haste? It's a cool 2nd level spell that's cast as a swift action and grants up to 4 rounds of Haste...)

I'd also consider adding some of the Druid's trap spells, as they'd make good trappers. Fire Trap, Spike Growth and Spike Stones can be decent if used correctly.

toapat
2013-12-13, 12:08 AM
Uh...what?

Haste/Slow and the Celerity line, not Time Stop or even greater celerity

I dont disagree at all with what you said. The pinnacle time spells? Hell no. those shouldnt even be available outside of 8th-9th level spells. I was referencing the low level time dilation spells.

and i wasnt saying definite concepts to add exactly, low level time magic can fit well within the domain of a semi-mystic guardian because you lower the risk to your allies and increase their strength.


the only 8-9th level spells i ever consider giving paladin are Holy aura (and honestly i now consider that as moreso necessary if to be included as a class feature then a spell) and True resurrection, as most of them dont thematically fit within paladin anyway.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-01-31, 11:31 PM
Alrightie, went back and made some changes here.

genericwit
2014-02-05, 07:09 PM
While I would prefer a class rewrite (paladin is still underwhelming at high levels), this is a great idea.

However, the high-level spells are kinda sad. Greater Magic Weapon is not exciting at level 10and neither is magic circle. I'd look at the levels you're assigning the spells, and drop a lot of these spell levels.

If you really need a re-write for Paladin, just give them the Pathfinder Smite (lasts all combat against one enemy)... Or better yet, just use the Pathfinder Paladin. Along with this spell list, it would do wonders for them.