Paladin Gestalts

[Stag]

So I've been thinking of good gestalt character choices to go with a pathfinder paladin, assuming I have no restriction on multi-classing. I was thinking Ranger+Paladin would be a good combo, but am unsure on the usefulness of combinations like Paladin+Alchemist. Anyone ever try playing a gestalt paladin? And if you did how did that work out for you?

[A_S]

I'm no PF expert, but I know that Oracle/Paladin is a very common multiclass. I'm guessing gestalting the two of them would let you get the Oradin tricks online sooner/better.

*edit* Further reading (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257365).

[Drelua]

My friend played a Paladin//Bard once. It wasn't very well optimized and the campaign unfortunately didn't make it to a second session, but it made for good skills and BAB, and all good saves. RP-wise it was sort of a warrior-poet skill monkey.

Edit: Oh, and a Paladin//Ninja could be good for CHA-synergy, maybe make them a halfling, plus if you dual-wield saps or maybe dip monk you could take Sap Adept for +2 damage per sneak attack die. Combining that with Smite would make for one hell of a full attack. RPing that would certainly be... interesting.

[JHShadon]

Go Paladin//Ninja to become Holy Batman, or you could go Paladin/Fighter to add a little more warrior to the Holy Warrior.

[Drachasor]

Sure you want all Paladin?

Paladin 2 / Magus 6 / Other stuff 12 // Sorcerer 20 would be pretty awesome, especially once you hit level 8.


The basic theory behind Gestalting, generally speaking, is that you want one class that has really strong active abilities. Then you want to be able to get a lot of passive bonuses from another (saves and other stuff). That's how I understand it anyhow. Imho, no reason not to use some sort of full caster.

[Greenish]

Paladin//Ninja has caught my eyes, too, they compliment each other very nicely. Paladin's chassis gives full BAB, good Fort & Will, Ninja's adds a few exotic weapons, good Ref, and loads of skills & skillpoints (which paladin really misses). Add charisma synergy, ninja tricks and paladin features, and you get quite a well-rounded guy (or gal) indeed.

Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife) goes with everything. Shape your conviction into a blade and smite your enemies with it.

[Ravens_cry]

Paladin//Ninja has caught my eyes, too, they compliment each other very nicely. Paladin's chassis gives full BAB, good Fort & Will, Ninja's adds a few exotic weapons, good Ref, and loads of skills & skillpoints (which paladin really misses). Add charisma synergy, ninja tricks and paladin features, and you get quite a well-rounded guy (or gal) indeed.

Yeah, that could be nice. Really one you'd have to clear with your DM though, as some tend to be restrictive about the paladin concept. Personally, I'd love to play/see a sneaking, stealthy paladin, but some think paladin must equal Sir Galahad.

[Greenish]

Well, there's no Ninja class feature (aside from a few tricks like Evasion) that wouldn't work while wearing shiny full plate and galloping about, righting all wrongs.

[RMS Oceanic]

Is it Pathfinder only or can you backport 3.5 stuff?

Because taking the Serenity feat (Wisdom to Paladin abilities instead of Charisma) makes the Paladin a nice chassis to enhance the Swordsage.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, you want to NOT overlap things or take classes with close power sets. Paladin and Ranger are both full bab semi-divine classes. Not what you want.

I would consider Inquisitor. It gives you serious smiting power (bane smiting) and toughness beyond even what a paladin gets (fast healing on top of lay on hands)

It is a little MAD, but I would focus on physical prowess rather than spells, so a 12 in wis and 14 cha can get you max level spells in each with a +4 wis amulet. A little pricey, but is saves you a ton of point buy.

You are a heavy armed and armored hunter of heresy who is powered by divine right and who's faith is unshakable. Take divine hunter and be a super archer who applies all kinds of nice enhancements to his bow. Take the preacher archtype for inquisitor.

[MonochromeTiger]

Yeah, that could be nice. Really one you'd have to clear with your DM though, as some tend to be restrictive about the paladin concept. Personally, I'd love to play/see a sneaking, stealthy paladin, but some think paladin must equal Sir Galahad.

I don't see why people can't have both. I'm sure if you get a stealthy enough horse the sneak attack damage from a ride-by attack with a lance would be perfectly effective.

[Fouredged Sword]

A small character doing ride by attack to get within flanking positions could be a concept that may work well. Also there is the scout archtype for rogues that allows you to sneak attack after moving.

A half orc paladin/rogue could again work with the skulking slayer and scout archtypes. Stealth is no longer needed, you are ether charging into the thick of things or smashing faces. It gets even funnier when you realize that sap master feats work with a merciful greatclub. Stand in front of a group and make no attempts to hide. When the time comes to attack, scream "Sneak ATTACK!" and charge.

[Talya]

pathfinder paladin is GREAT.

gestalt with oracle is probably best, it's the oradin with no multiclassing drawbacks.

whatever you gestalt with should be charisma focused.

[Larkas]

In gestalt, you want to combine two classes with different strengths and that have some synergy. Paladin and Ranger have more or less the same strengths (Full BAB, minion, half casting) and no synergy (different stats used for spellcasting).

If you want a "naturey champion", a better combination could be Oracle//Ranger (just dump Wis if necessary, the Oracle's casting is vastly superior) or even Paladin//Druid (made better if you can port Serenity, and only possible with some alignment waiving).

If you just want a fun character, Paladin//Oracle and Paladin//Sorcerer are both good choices, what with Charisma being such a great stat for all the classes. Paladin//Inquisitor can be fun too, not to mention flavorful and skillful, but it's less diverse and powerful. Paladin//Cleric is a possibility too, since Cleric also gets some mileage out of Charisma, but could certainly be made better with Serenity or Dynamic Priest ported (otherwise, you'll have to divide your resources between Wisdom and Charisma). Paladin//Monk, specially the Qinggong variety, can also be fun, but again Serenity is desirable. Finally, Paladin//Bard can also be great, but you'll have to deal with alignment waivings here too.

[Greenish]

Finally, Paladin//Bard can also be great, but you'll have to deal with alignment waivings here too.PF bard doesn't have alignment restrictions. Paladin//Bard is pretty sweet, and you could take the Dawnflower Dervish for bard for more face-smashing (or slashing, as the case may be), or Archivist and double as a rogue.

[Larkas]

PF bard doesn't have alignment restrictions. Paladin//Bard is pretty sweet, and you could take the Dawnflower Dervish for bard for more face-smashing (or slashing, as the case may be), or Archivist and double as a rogue.

Oooh, didn't know that. Nice!

[Ravens_cry]

Well, there's no Ninja class feature (aside from a few tricks like Evasion) that wouldn't work while wearing shiny full plate and galloping about, righting all wrongs.

I don't see why people can't have both. I'm sure if you get a stealthy enough horse the sneak attack damage from a ride-by attack with a lance would be perfectly effective.
I am talking thematically. Plus, from an optimization stand point, you are better off TWF.

[Razanir]

I might wind up in a gestalt campaign next semester, and I was actually planning on a Paladin//Oracle, with Holy Vindicator on a yet-to-be-determined side.

[IAmTehDave]

Not sure how optimized it'd be, but a fun concept: If you can use the Serenity feat, would go either Paladin//PsyWar or Paladin//Soulknife(Gifted and/or Armored and/or Shielded Blade(s))
Armored or Shielded Blade would work even without Serenity. With Soulknife, you'd have good reflex saves, and a free action to summon your weapon.
You could use the Divine Bond on your Mind Blade to have Standard Action customizing on it above and beyond your normal enhancements. (And some that are normally unavailable to the SK)

As a Psychic Warrior, you've got fighter style Bonus feats, and psywar manifesting, so stuff like Psionic Lion's Charge: Pounce with your Smite Evil?
Take either the Interceptor or the Mind Knight path (Or both, eventually) for more Paladin flavor to the PsyWar. Or take the Protector archetype instead to be a tank.

I understand that neither of those really diversifies the Paladin; either of those would pretty much be "And can hit things better or differently" but for the fluff of it, I'd play a PLD//PsW or PLD/SK

[Stag]

Is it Pathfinder only or can you backport 3.5 stuff?

Because taking the Serenity feat (Wisdom to Paladin abilities instead of Charisma) makes the Paladin a nice chassis to enhance the Swordsage.

No, I'm all for taking 3.5 material when I need it. Unless it directly contradicts something stated in PF.

[Sheogoroth]

There are a lot of archetypes, especially with sorcerer and alchemist, that you might have a hard time role-playing as a paladin.
You could try a Paladin-Monk Flurry of Smites, or a Cavalier-Paladin Smite Charger.

[Ravens_cry]

There are a lot of archetypes, especially with sorcerer and alchemist, that you might have a hard time role-playing as a paladin.
You could try a Paladin-Monk Flurry of Smites, or a Cavalier-Paladin Smite Charger.
Not sure what Cavalier gets that really gets that helps Paladin that much to be honest.

[Sheogoroth]

Not sure what Cavalier gets that really gets that helps Paladin that much to be honest.

You can throw up your smite and your challenge simultaneously. Plus your mount gets Cavalier level buffs AND the Paladin mount template.

[Ravens_cry]

You can throw up your smite and your challenge simultaneously. Plus your mount gets Cavalier level buffs AND the Paladin mount template.
That's my point. You get an extra boost from things you are already good at, but it doesn't add too much to versatility.

[MonochromeTiger]

That's my point. You get an extra boost from things you are already good at, but it doesn't add too much to versatility.

as far as fluff goes it makes sense for a paladin to gestalt into a class that helps him yell orders more clearly....

[WinWin]

If 3rd party material is allowed, then Tengu looks pretty good.

Yamabushi (paladin)//Swordmaster (rogue) would enable a mobile crit-fishing build.

[Talya]

Is it Pathfinder only or can you backport 3.5 stuff?


Wouldn't that be forward porting (which i suppose is just porting)? I would think making PF stuff compatible with 3.5 would be "backporting."

[Blackhawk748]

Well Paladin/Cleric is a classic, Extra Holy on your holy warrior, bonus points for riding around smacking people with a mace while screaming holy litanies of hatred

[Fax Celestis]

Paladin//Hexblade (ridiculous saves, among other things) and Paladin//Spellthief are often underlooked, in my estimation.

That said, my vote is for Paladin//Dragonfire Adept. "MY FIRE IS THE FIRE THAT WILL CLEANSE THE WORLD" *fwoosh*

[Greenish]

I notice Dread (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/dread) is Charisma-based, with good Ref saves and nice skill points. Put the fear of gods in them!

[Manly Man]

For fun times, you could also do a Paladin//Samurai. The Charisma focus of the Paladin will mesh well with some of the Samurai's features, you get add-ons from both sides when it comes to mounts, and the idea of having a holy avenger in katana form is just tasty. You'd have to ask your DM about whether that could be doable (since holy avengers are cold iron, and katanas are... not). Even if you can't have both of the weapons in one, the visuals of Smiting the bejeezus out of everything with a holy katana is pretty damned cool.

[Ravens_cry]

For fun times, you could also do a Paladin//Samurai. The Charisma focus of the Paladin will mesh well with some of the Samurai's features, you get add-ons from both sides when it comes to mounts, and the idea of having a holy avenger in katana form is just tasty. You'd have to ask your DM about whether that could be doable (since holy avengers are cold iron, and katanas are... not). Even if you can't have both of the weapons in one, the visuals of Smiting the bejeezus out of everything with a holy katana is pretty damned cool.
I don't remember anything saying a Katana can't be cold iron.:smallconfused: Yes, it's not a typical material, but it's not a typical material for any weapon, including longswords.
Now, a bigger problem is holy avenger specifically says 'longsword', but I personally see little issue porting it to another base weapon.

[Greenish]

There's Blade of the Rising Sun (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/blade-of-the-rising-sun), if you want a fancy paladin-appropriate katana.

And yeah, katanas are metal weapons, so they can be made of any special material that applies to those, such as mithril, alchemical silver, adamantine, cold iron…


[Edit]: Though I'd rather do Paladin//Soulknife and get Emulate Melee Weapon for a katana. :smalltongue: