Deadly Defense Question

[tricktroller]

So by the wording of Deadly Defense

You gain an extra d6 damage when fighting defensively.

Under special it says you also gain the benefit of the feat when using combat expertise for at least a -2.

So would you be able to take a -6 to your attack and get +2d6 damage?

I am curious because there is an AEG feat which drops your fighting defensively penalty to -1 so for a total of -3 to hit I would get +2d6 damage, which would be pretty cool in my opinion.

[Fouredged Sword]

Nope, is you get X IF Y, not you get X PER Y.

[tricktroller]

alright. That's fine, I just thought it was inclusory because of the word "also"

Also can I post the text from dnd tools to here or is that not allowed?

The reason I am asking is I might be making a kalashtar with the dancing with shadows feat.

With two feats from the AEG book you get +6 (+7 with 5 ranks in tumble) when you fight defensively and only take a -1 penalty to hit. with Dancing with shadows you get your dodge bonus from combat expertise or fighting defensively on your next attack after taking the to hit penalty to one round. I intend to always be fighting defensively. Even when using graceful lunge because it does not say you can't continue to do so.

With another feat he drops his crit range down 1 per turn of fighting defensively or using combat expertise.

He will have power attack and use either a spiked chain or more likely an elven thinblade.

[Fouredged Sword]

You can post incomplete information without problem. If you post the text of a feat, you should not also post the prereqs. The idea is that you can post enough so that it is useful in regards to the conversation, but not enough that it can be used in play without referencing the book.

[tricktroller]

awesome and I can totally understand that form a business point of view.

When fighting defensively, you deal an extra 1d6 points of damage with any light weapon or with any weapon to which the Weapon Finesse feat applies (such as a rapier, spiked chain, or whip). This feat's benefit applies only when you are unarmored or wearing light armor and not using a shield.
Special
If you have the Combat Expertise feat, you also gain the benefit of Deadly Defense when taking a penalty of at least -2 on your attack roll from that feat.

My reasoning is that they are two completely separate statements and as written seem to provide their benefit to each instance. (emphasis mine obviously)

[tricktroller]

I can take the trait cautious to bump defensive to +8 (2 base,1 tumble, 4 feat 1 trait)

If the deadly defense worked like I want it to, fighting defensivley and combat expertise would net me -3 to hit +10 ac +2d6 damage and on the next turn I would continue to gain all the benefits and +10 to hit giving me instead of -3 a +7....

However all of that with 1d6 less is still pretty awesome.

[tricktroller]

actually if deadly defense doesnt work then I will be removing the courtblade and just going with a falchion and free up two feats for dirty things like cleave and other rude things.

[Khedrac]

The problem is that the statement is "also gain the benefit of the Deadly Defense feat" - i.e. the entire benefit
The befit is the +1D6 damage
Bonuses from the same source don't stack unless they explicitly state so (like sneak attack).
End result - if you fight defensively and take at least a 2 penalty from Combat Expertise then you do gain Deadly Defence's +1d6 twice, but it is the same 1d6 - you don't even get to roll twice and take the better, it's the same d6 roll and it counts once.

[tricktroller]

hmmm alrighty I can accept that, are there any other feats/ stuff that pump fighting defensively preferrably for damage?

[Fax Celestis]

hmmm alrighty I can accept that, are there any other feats/ stuff that pump fighting defensively preferrably for damage?

Not in WotC books, unfortunately.

You could try to pick up Riposte (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) somehow.

[Greenish]

hmmm alrighty I can accept that, are there any other feats/ stuff that pump fighting defensively preferrably for damage?There's Dancing with Shadows tactical feat from Races of Eberron. Also see this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178445).

[tricktroller]

@Fax - not really what I'm looking for but good suggestion!

I don't really see a lot of WotC stuff for fighting defensively, and I don't see a whole lot for combat expertise. However I think this guy fits pretty well as is now.

I am already making him a kalashtar with dancing with shadows XD That is how I will be getting +10 to ac and +7 to hit after my first round of combat.

[tricktroller]

Also in another post someone mentioned that a mongrelfolk could qualify for the kalashtar feats? If so I would much rather be a mongrelfolk lol

[Fouredged Sword]

Another thought along this vein is Rolbar's gambit and Stomguard warrior. Everytime someone attacks you, they risk an AOO. Every time an opponent risks an AOO you pass up, you get large attack and damage bonuses the next round.

[tricktroller]

yeah combat reflexes plus combat instincts is similar except that you get AoOs if they miss by a margin of your dex and BAB so at 4th it would be with 7 of my AC which will be 27. So if they get anywhere near my AC I get to kick their faces in. some more. Gotta find space for two more feats for that though. I guess I could take them both at 6th lol.

[Fouredged Sword]

Stormguard warrior is great because it DOESN'T use AOO's. It uses all the AOO's you don't have the attacks of opportunity to make. If an opponent triggers 10 AOO's in a round, but your dex is 5, 4 of them will be wasted. Stormguard warrior gives you nice large boost that don't use an AOO for the round to get.

[tricktroller]

prereqs are pretty steep though for a fighter... needs lots of ToB stuff.

Also its a terrible stance.

[Flickerdart]

There's actually a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178445) on fighting defensively. I had a pretty fun low-level build going once with Cobalt Expertise and Factotum that let me have some tricked-out trip checks.

[tricktroller]

Is there a better non exotic weapon for me to use with all of this? I have read through the fighting defensively handbook as well as the AEG book of feats and have all but 8th 10th 12th and 14th fighter feats mapped out. I might go with some other full BAB class as opposed to fighter but I am not sure. I was wondering if there was a PRC that involved it that wasn't dwarven defender lol though I suppose with the version of mongrelfolk I am using I could take it haha.