Rolemaster/RMC/RMX/MERP

[Rhynn]

So, I hate Rolemaster but I love MERP. One of my players is so traumatized he started sort of mooing "noooooo" as soon as Rolemaster was brought up. One was just relaxedly cynical as he made comments about Tablemaster/Rollmaster. The third one, though, is really into the idea.

And damnit but I love MERP adventures, and for the last year of working on and running old-school games, I've been thinking over and over how old-school those adventures are (in an idiom quite different from OSR D&D), and how I'd love to run an old-school campaign using those modules.

The problem is that...

the primary memory I have of Rolemaster is this one damned running battle against a group of orcs in a ruined castle that took something like 3 sessions (probably 12-18 hours) to resolve! Because we were using 2nd Edition Rolemaster with Arms Law (the one with 42 full-page attack tables, each for one weapon, each with a matrix of over 2000 results, and 18 pages of critical tables, and 6 pages of misc. tables, not counting spell attack & critical tables in Spell Law), which was the only combat system available for that edition (no core book with simpler tables, like RMSS had).

Back then, a bunch of kids like us had no easy access to scanners, printers, or even photocopiers, so this meant that combat consisted mainly of the GM flipping through our single copies of each book looking for tables. See, you also needed all the various experience tables during combat, so you didn't forget to tally that XP (because PCs needed almost obscene amounts to advance levels, and every little bit was precious)...

Rolemaster Standard System helped a bit with the battle tables, simplifying them, but introduced a new problem: the Player Characters were now an accounting nightmare that none of my players could master. (I was apparently born with the withered heart of an accountant, and love making spreadsheets, so I was okay.) The skill category system, the 40 categories and over 230 skills* (many of them actually groups of skills that you could take several of), the special rules for all of them, the freaking separate maneuver tables for each of 40 skill categories... agh! The total result was an even worse game.

* I counted! I think it was 42 and 237?

Don't get me wrong, we freaking loved playing, we had fun, but more and more and more the system wore on us, until I just couldn't keep it up. I was defeated. I gave up. We haven't played Rolemaster in over 10 years.

But anyway, I was enticed. I've been thinking of ways to hack Rolemaster to be playable. MERP is too simplistic, especially in character generation. RMSS is just too dang much.

And then I found out Rolemaster Classic had come out, and got it, along with Rolemaster Express (RMX rules squeezed into one). The Combat Companion introduced a simplified combat system, and now I have the power of printers & scanners at my fingertips (I have enough university printing allowance per semester to anything I could ever want and not even make a dent)...

So what am I gonna do with all this? Tell me, Gentle Reader, how you've turned the lovely mess that is Rolemaster into a playable experience? How do I convince my traumatized and skeptical players I've created something that won't eat their soul? What are your tips, tricks, and warnings?

Right now, I'm thinking of just running either RMC with some changes (RMSS Special Progression for Body Development and Power Points, maybe), or RMX with a lot of additions (especially from the Express Additions), including all standard classes and races (RMX and RMC are easy to merge seamlessly), with probably a modified version of the Combat Companion combat system (and remove the Weapon Types that limit criticals in ridiculous ways; what do you mean, you can't crit a man in plate armor with a knife? How do you think knights killed each other!?) ...


Edit: Magestaff (from Additions 9) is the best spell list ever. It's ridiculous how in love I am with that list. And Venturer is the best "Elf Warrior" class I've seen; for some reason, I can't help but see Middle-earth Elves as Mentalism casters (mostly half- and hybrid-, though, rather than full Mentalists).

Edit2: I mean, come on! "I have a glowing Gandalf-staff that gives me OB bonuses to attacks and spells and shoots shock bolts, pew pew!"

[LibraryOgre]

My suggestion would be to dump MERP and use another system. For me? Go with Castles and Crusades, for a few reasons.

1) Nice and iconic, with a close-enough-to-Tolkien feel. Rangers are rangers. Wizards are wizards. Clerics are clerics, but you don't have to scrape too much cruft off them to make them fit into LOTR. Alternatively, you can make Illusionists your only non-Maiar casters and still have a good team.

2) The MERP conversions to AD&D work perfectly well for C&C.

3) Because MERP is d100 and C&C is d20, you can wing things if you can divide by 5 in your head.

[Rhynn]

Actually, one of my biggest goals is to avoid any conversion work on the modules. So I can change the combat tables, etc., I use, but the statlines (Hits 102, DB 30, OB 76bs) would be used as-is... ideally.

If I did do a system conversion, it'd probably be either ACKS (for those old-school mechanics; it's my go-to D&D now, and I've already made a B/X style halfling class anyway), Decipher's LotR RPG, or The One Ring.

Plus, like I (kind of?) said, I do like Rolemaster in theory; the practice just got out of control...

I know someone over at RPG.net had done some kind of Rolemaster/MERP conversion for a D&D-type game (I forget which one), with critical tables, etc., so I might look at that if I did go D&D.

[LibraryOgre]

In that case? Photocopy and organize, or invest some time in a good spreadsheet. Make copies of the most necessary tables, and organize them well. Once you get started, a lot of the difficulty of the game goes away... it's "roll d100, add X, and tell me the total".

[Rhynn]

That's one reason I love the Combat Companion tables: it's one page per attack mode (Piercing, Long Blade, Short Blade), and that one page contains 1) a list of weapons and their properties, 2) an attack roll table, and 3) a critical hit table. I can print extras and the players can divvy them up (and once I know what weapons everyone has, I can print a couple more so everyone has their own).

Some kind of table-binder might be good, too.

But this reminds me of the real reason anyone likes Rolemaster...


106-110 You know what stuck up people get? A crossbow bolt right up the left nostril, that's what they get!

111-115 You light up his life, and hair and clothing.

111-115 Usually when you grab someone's arm and twist it like that they go where you send them. He resists and you twist it all the way around in the socket.

61-65 You spear his foot and he squeals so loud that you're forced to lever the haft into his face to shut him up.

116-120 This is what gets you out of bed in the morning! Right under the ribs and through a lung.


It's the hilarious splatter movie of RPGs.

[LibraryOgre]

You stumble on an invisible, deceased, turtle. Lose 1 round in confusion.

Many years ago, incidentally, I ran a MERP game for my brother, and did not realize you didn't add OB to the critical tables. LOTS of shots through the ears.

[Rhynn]

Many years ago, incidentally, I ran a MERP game for my brother, and did not realize you didn't add OB to the critical tables. LOTS of shots through the ears.

Me and my friends started MERP at like 10-11 years of age and didn't get half of it right. Pretty sure we added weapon bonuses to criticals, and I know we added the "average stat bonuses by profession" to the stats (not bonuses!) of characters of a given profession... it was crazy.

[Black Jester]

I am actually part of a rolemaster/MERP hybrid campaign, but my impression so far was: It is good as long as it only uses MERP stuff, as soon as the more complicated materiel is introduced the game takes a nosedive. Every. Single. Time.

So, I would suggest, just play MERP. It is not perfect, but at least it works without bogging the game down. An alternative that could work (but I actually lack the practial experience with it) is HARP, the designated Rolemaster heir system, which at least seems to be more streamlined than the original Rolemaster and a bit more modernized (and generic) version of MERP.

[Rhynn]

Ironically, I noticed HARP books on the shelf at my FLGS when I was picking up my RM books. Can anyone tell me more about HARP?

Rolemaster Express is very nearly MERP - the combat, maneuver, etc. tables are basically the exact same. I think I may go with RMX but allow RMC classes, spell lists, etc., if any one player wants to use them. They have smooth and easy compatibility.

I already know I'm going to be printing out spell lists for players, and obviously it's going to take forever for any PC to get to use spells at higher levels (especially if I don't use rules that allow overcasting).

[Black Jester]

I haven't played it (yet), but I have read HARP, so my impressions are a bit theoretical, but as far as i have seen it, the system uses the same basic principles as Rolemaster/MERP, but is more focused on skills. The skill list is not exactly of GURPSian dimensions, but significantly larger and a bit more specific than that of MERP. In addition, you have talents, which work similar to advantages or feats. As far as I can tell, it is also better written, in the sense that the rules are generally more transparent and clear (but, then again, that is not much of a challenge when it comes to a comparison with MERP in my opinion). The magic system is greatly improved (and seems much better balanced, as well), using spells as individual skills instead of the fixed lists.
The number of tables are actually (and fortunately) quite small, you have the dearly beloved critical tables, but only one per category of damage. The talents offer an additional layer to the characters, but they are a bit cookie-cutterish, as most of them are basically standard fare for a fantasy genre. Speaking o layers, HARP adds culture as an additional aspect next to race to the character creation, which helps to differentiate characters a bit. Likewise, you can also multiclass now.

Oh, and as a nice bonus, the artwork seems to be done primarily by good old FASA alumni, especially Laubenstein sticks out. The printing quality isn't that good, but I found the artwork much more memorable and enjoyable than most of the time.

For my personal tastes (and I have no particular dislike for complex systems, as long as the complexity adds to the game, which I never had the impression the dozens of critical hit table of rolemaster did), HARP seems like a good development of the whole issue, streamlining the gameplay without making it too superficial. It would not be my first choice for a middle-earth campaign (too many better choices in that regard), but for a mini-campaign or a testdrive adventure, I will probably use it next year or so.

[Rhynn]

A lot of that HARP stuff (cultures, talents) is in most editions of Rolemaster, too: RMX explicitly separates cultures & races, RMSS/FRP/C sort of bundles them like MERP; and there's a whole Talent Law book... (Because you need a Law sourcebook for every dang thing!)

[Lorsa]

Would it be possible to create some sort of computer program that would take care of the table-flipping for you? Like select weapon, enter die outcome and it would give you the result?

I haven't actually played Rolemaster, but I've played a Lord of the Rings game that had very similar tables and remember it fondly.

[Blacky the Blackball]

So what am I gonna do with all this? Tell me, Gentle Reader, how you've turned the lovely mess that is Rolemaster into a playable experience?

I did this: Blood, Guts & Glory (http://www.gratisgames.webspace.virginmedia.com/bloodgutsandglory.html)

It's basically an OGL mash-up of Rolemaster 2e and d20 D&D, as follows:

Ability scores are the classic 6 from D&D with the usual 3-18 range. You don't have all the messing about with 10 temporary scores and 10 potential scores.
Skill rules are taken from D&D, with the usual "d20 + skill bonus >= DC" skill check. No Rolemaster-style static manoeuvre and moving manoeuvre tables.
Classes and skill acquisition are taken from Rolemaster.
The actual skill list is taken from Rolemaster, but it is the core 2e skill list so there are only (if I remember correctly) 27 skills on it, not the hundreds you would get with the Companions or with RMSS.
Learning spells is done the Rolemaster way, but casting spells is done in a much simpler way using rules inspired by D&D 4e's static defences.
Combat uses a simple declare actions / role initiative / act in initiative order sequence rather than Rolemaster's complex blend of different combat phases and percentage action.
Combat uses Rolemaster-style weapon tables, but simplified from having over 2,000 results each to having less than 400 each (they're 12x30 rather than 20x150).
The critical injury, healing spell and herb system is closely based on Rolemaster but has been extensively tweaked so that the three sets of rules actually match up. It's now obvious which critical results can be healed by which methods, and we no longer have the huge amount of ambiguity that Rolemaster had in every edition.

I put in a few pages of setting material, which sets the game in a post-apocalypse Elizabethan England populated by anthropomorphic animals, but it can be just as easily played in a generic fantasy setting if you ignore that short chapter (I even provide suggestions for how to go about replacing the animal races with generic fantasy races).

What's more, like all the stuff I write it's completely free!

[Khedrac]

You stumble on an invisible, deceased, turtle. Lose 1 round in confusion.And the winner is the 2v1 duel my character was watching where one of the 2 trolls and the barbarian both managed that result - made everyone else watching wonder if there really was something there...

[The Parasomniac]

Maybe I'm a really weird person, but I got really excited at the thought of 2000 results and 18 critical tables. I think I like a lot of variety in combat so it doesn't get stale. Not a fan of how the exp system sounds though.

Not sure how accessible all of these still are, but I'm definitely going to give them a look.

[skyth]

Big fan of Rolemaster here. The system works pretty well once you get the hang of it. One thing I would suggest would be everyone has their own copy of the weapon tables that they use. Or else, they just tell the GM what their total is.

Inputting everything into a computer is a good suggestion as well.

One thing also to consider is, if memory serves, in RMC I, they give you the formula that is used to calculate the damage. Regardless, it is formulatic. You start doing x damage at result y. Every z above that, you do one additional point of damage. You get an A crit at result xx, a B crit at result xy, etc. Granted, some weapons versus some armor types you get a different type of crit (Crushing versus Slashing for instance).

[Rhynn]

Would it be possible to create some sort of computer program that would take care of the table-flipping for you? Like select weapon, enter die outcome and it would give you the result?

I haven't actually played Rolemaster, but I've played a Lord of the Rings game that had very similar tables and remember it fondly.

It is theoretically possible, but I'm currently interning and 40 hours a week of typing code is enough for me. Besides, I think there's a lot of stuff you should be doing first to simplify a game before you even consider creating a program for it... :smallbiggrin:

If you mean the old ICE LoR, that game is awesomely simple. Later ICE Middle-Earth sourcebooks actually include LoR stats for monsters, etc.!


Big fan of Rolemaster here. The system works pretty well once you get the hang of it.

A lot of people say that, but I played it for ~8 years, very much had the hang of it, and it just got worse and worse (partly my own fault for switching to RMFRP)!


One thing I would suggest would be everyone has their own copy of the weapon tables that they use.

Yeah, like I said, I'm probably gonna use the Combat Companion tables and do just that; or create my own based on them.


Or else, they just tell the GM what their total is.

That's what we did back in the day, and largely what resulted in hours of book-flipping (even though my Arms Law STILL has little tape notes sticking out of it for the most common weapons).


I'm going to look into HARP as I can; from what I can tell, it's 75% similar to Rolemaster (same stats, same system for skills, etc.), so I might be able to integrate parts of it very well.

[skyth]

I've done RM2...On and off for around 25 years or so :) Not familiar with the other versions (Though I've poked around MERP a bit and have some modules from Middle Earth).

[Lorsa]

It is theoretically possible, but I'm currently interning and 40 hours a week of typing code is enough for me. Besides, I think there's a lot of stuff you should be doing first to simplify a game before you even consider creating a program for it... :smallbiggrin:

Yes, you might have a point there. Although if you don't want to do the programming yourself, this is a forum for nerds, I'm sure there'll be someone that's also code-savvy that wants to spend a few hours doing it just for fun!


If you mean the old ICE LoR, that game is awesomely simple. Later ICE Middle-Earth sourcebooks actually include LoR stats for monsters, etc.!

I must embarrasingly say that I don't know exactly which one I mean. It was in swedish but I have the feeling they'd just been copying something else (either a direct translation or heavy influence). It used some d100 mechanic if I remember correctly and if you did enough damage (which was seen at the first table) you consulted a second table that went up to values like 140 or something that had descriptions very similar to those you mentioned for Rolemaster.

[Remmirath]

I love MERP, and have spent most of my effort on tweaking rules to make MERP conform better to Middle-earth (a lot less magic everywhere, things like that). I've also tweaked it a bit for various issues some people in the group had with it, mostly minor, and some realism-oriented things that I've always wanted to add into some system but just didn't make sense in D&D. I'm still working on our complete house rule list for MERP, but it's coming along.

I have yet to actually play a game of just Rolemaster, but I do own the books, and I don't see any particular problem with them. The critical tables have always been one of my favourite things about MERP, and so having more of them is a plus -- although they are a bit intimidatingly large on the outset. I can't say that I'm as fond of Rolemaster as I am of MERP yet, having not actually managed to get a full game together, but I expect I would be (or at least nearly so). I have already implementing some things from Rolemaster into MERP, but they've mostly been minor things (shield rules, splitting up the healing skill, stuff like that). I like having more armour categories, although perhaps not quite that many more.


Me and my friends started MERP at like 10-11 years of age and didn't get half of it right. Pretty sure we added weapon bonuses to criticals, and I know we added the "average stat bonuses by profession" to the stats (not bonuses!) of characters of a given profession... it was crazy.

Heh, I remember that we also did the first of those when we started playing MERP. Resulted in some quaint happenings, especially combined with our lack of understanding the round order -- including a wide variety of odd and unlikely double kills. Crazy stuff. I was also around ten at the time, I believe, and had previously only played first edition AD&D, so that was rather different. Kept making all sorts of mistakes. I know those weren't the only ones, but they were the most memorable.


I must embarrasingly say that I don't know exactly which one I mean. It was in swedish but I have the feeling they'd just been copying something else (either a direct translation or heavy influence). It used some d100 mechanic if I remember correctly and if you did enough damage (which was seen at the first table) you consulted a second table that went up to values like 140 or something that had descriptions very similar to those you mentioned for Rolemaster.

Sounds like MERP (MERP stands for Middle-earth Roleplaying, since I don't believe anybody has mentioned that yet in this thread). My only experience with LOR was from some of those choose your own adventure type books, but I believe that it was significantly more simple than that.