Using magic devices as a wizard.

[MrUberGr]

So, we've come across this paradox. A wizard scribes a scroll, and saves it for later. In order to use it you have to "use magic device" with a dc 20 + scrollCL. Not only is "use magic device" under charisma, it's not even a class skill for wizard. So, in a campaign where you cannot spam scribe scroll, and then sell them for money, it's pretty much useless. Right?

Is this the same for wands, staffs, rings etc? You have to "use magic device"?

-edit: Not only do you have to "use magic device", but do you have to "decipher script" on your own writings as well?

[Corlindale]

That's not how it works. If a wizard's Caster Level is high enough, he can just use the scroll (assuming read magic and spellcraft, of course). Even if his caster level is lower, he can still use it if he makes a caster level check. He doesn't need UMD to cast a scroll with a wizard spell on it.


You only need Use Magic Device if you play a class that doesn't normally have access to that spell. So a wizard would need UMD to use scrolls of cleric spells, but not wizard spells.

It's similar for wands and staves - you only need UMD if you are trying to cast a spell your class wouldn't normally have available.

[cakellene]

UMD let's you emulate being to cast the spell from scroll,/wand wizards have no need to use UMD a lot of time.

[Greenish]

Use Magic Device skill is for the suckers who can't magic. You're the damn wizard, you don't roll for that sort of stuff.

Scrolls just work, if the spell is on your (class) spell list, and you have high enough CL. If your CL is too low, you gotta roll a CL check, but that should never come up with the scrolls you scribed yourself.

Wands just work, if the spell is on your (class) spell list. Just point and click.

Staffs work like wands, point and click.


Rings, well, anyone can wear (and use) a ring, no checks required.

[MrUberGr]

hmm, so if I scribe a spell onto a scroll I can instantly use it as well? Cause the feat (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/scribe-scroll--2533/) doesn't say anything like that.

[cakellene]

Scribe scroll feat is not the place to look for rules on how to use scrolls, just how to make them.

[eggynack]

hmm, so if I scribe a spell onto a scroll I can instantly use it as well? Cause the feat (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/scribe-scroll--2533/) doesn't say anything like that.
It's not in the rules for scribing scrolls. It's just in the normal rules for scrolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm), particularly the part about activating the spell. Specifically, it needs to match your type, between divine and arcane, you need the spell to be on your class list, you need the requisite ability score, and your caster level must be the spell's caster level or greater (lest there is a mishap). As the scriber of the scroll, you conveniently needed to fill those prerequisites already, but you can fill the prerequisites of scrolls you didn't scribe too.

[MrUberGr]

Hmm, k thanks. Must've missed that part. :smallredface:

[MrUberGr]

hmm, I can't seem to find how much time it takes to scribe a scroll.

[Karnith]

hmm, I can't seem to find how much time it takes to scribe a scroll.
It's in the description of the Scribe Scroll feat. Per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#scribeScroll):

You can create a scroll of any spell that you know. Scribing a scroll takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a scroll is its spell level × its caster level × 25 gp. To scribe a scroll, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price.
(Emphasis mine) Don't you love how the rules are all over the place?

[MrUberGr]

So assuming you need 8 hours rest per day, there are 16 hours left. (960minutes for 1000g). So essentialy 9.6 minutes for each 10g. Am I right?

[Psyren]

You can only spend 8 hours crafting items per day:


The caster works for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day. But the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit.

(You're overthinking this a bit. Generally if you find yourself dividing hours into minutes you've probably taken a wrong turn somewhere.)

What scroll are you trying to make?

[nedz]

There is some ambiguity about how long it takes to scribe a scroll of multiple spells.

One day per spell
One day per 1,000 gp of the total value of spells on the scroll

I'm in the second camp myself but different people read these rules in different ways :smallsigh:

[MrUberGr]

hahaha! :smallbiggrin: nothing specific, but it's different to be able to write a scroll on the fly and having to spend half a morning to do it.

[Psyren]

While the scrollmasters are in this thread, I have a question. We all know that scrolls can contain multiple spells, but can a PC create scrolls like that? Scribe Scroll seems to say that scrolls made by a PC can only hold one spell each, at least by RAW.

[Duke of Urrel]

While the scrollmasters are in this thread, I have a question. We all know that scrolls can contain multiple spells, but can a PC create scrolls like that? Scribe Scroll seems to say that scrolls made by a PC can only hold one spell each, at least by RAW.

You can download a page of FAQ here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CD8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdonjon-facile.com%2Fdoc%2FFAQ.doc&ei=ZRqrUoTSFsjcyQHinIHQBA&usg=AFQjCNF9O_1UzC7MmZ91lgywn8JnajmuXA&sig2=yBAzTDe-2bRHPgYhbCVK9g&bvm=bv.57967247,d.aWc) that contains the following exchange:

Q: According to the rules, creating a magic item takes one day per 1,000 gp in its base cost, with a minimum of one day. The random scroll generation charts in the Dungeon Master’s Guide state that a scroll could have up to six spells on it. Does this mean that when I create a scroll I can place six spells on it? Does it count as one scroll or six for purposes of item creation (in other words, should it take one day or six)?

A: A scroll with multiple spells counts as a single item for the purpose of determining the time to create it. A divine scroll with six castings of cure light wounds (market price 150 gp) would take 1 day to scribe; a divine scroll with six castings of heal (market price 9,900 gp) would take 10 days to scribe. You’d need to expend (and prepare, if that’s required by
your class) the spell once for each time it appears on the scroll. The act of scribing cure light wounds the first time onto a scroll expends cure light wounds, which means you’d need to have another one prepared to scribe it again.

I'd like to give my thanks to Kamap of Belgium for the reference.

[nedz]

Scribe Scroll [Item Creation]
You can create a scroll of any spell that you know. Scribing a scroll takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a scroll is its spell level × its caster level × 25 gp. To scribe a scroll, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price.

Creating Scrolls
To create a scroll, a character needs a supply of choice writing materials, the cost of which is subsumed in the cost for scribing the scroll—12.5 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.

All writing implements and materials used to scribe a scroll must be fresh and unused. A character must pay the full cost for scribing each spell scroll no matter how many times she previously has scribed the same spell.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, she pays the cost upon beginning the scroll in addition to the XP cost for making the scroll itself. Likewise, a material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not. (A focus used in scribing a scroll can be reused.) The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

Scribing a scroll requires one day per each 1,000 gp of the base price.

Scrolls
A scroll is a spell (or collection of spells) that has been stored in written form. A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated. Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell.

Looking at the above there is either a dysfunction, or at the very least a gap, in the rules here.

There are some FAQ entries FWIW


Can my wizard craft more than one item in a day if the total cost to create the items is no more than 1,000 gp?
No. All items take at least one day to craft, so you can’t combine multiple cheap items into a single day’s work. A small loophole to this rule is the scroll with multiple spells, which counts as a single item.


According to the rules, creating a magic item takes one day per 1,000 gp in its base cost, with a minimum of one day. The random scroll generation charts in the Dungeon Master’s Guide state that a scroll could have up to six spells on it. Does this mean that when I create a scroll I can place six spells on it? Does it count as one scroll or six for purposes of item creation (in other words, should it take one day or six)?
A scroll with multiple spells counts as a single item for the purpose of determining the time to create it. A divine scroll with six castings of cure light wounds (market price 150 gp) would take 1 day to scribe; a divine scroll with six castings of heal (market price 9,900 gp) would take 10 days to scribe.
You’d need to expend (and prepare, if that’s required by your class) the spell once for each time it appears on the scroll.
The act of scribing cure light wounds the first time onto a scroll expends cure light wounds, which means you’d need to have another one prepared to scribe it again.

Ed: FAQ'd

[Psyren]

Thanks, I think the FAQ rulings are reasonable and will show them to my DM.