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Irk
2013-12-13, 07:45 PM
In the past few weeks I've been hypothesizing about a potential high op game. In this case, High op means ice assassin shenanigans and wish loops, but no epic feats at first level. What I'm looking for are ideas for opponents and a ban list. The universe functions on RAW and real world physics were it applies

Right now, I'm considering doing the old shadesteel golems with rudimentary intelligence and class levels, as well as some factotum/(psion or warblade or both), maybe that pugilist zombie trick (with the immune to damage interpretation).

As for banning, thus far, I just really don't like the idea of letting PCs get epic feats at low levels, (though it's okay in certain games, I think), so no dragonwrought Kobold stuff. Apart from that, I guess I have to ban Pun-Pun, simply because I KNOW one of them will bring such a character to the tab;e if it is not explicitly forbidden. Also no chicken infested, only because it'll end the world when they become a hive mind and start casting CL 10^1000 spells.

Heliomance
2013-12-14, 02:31 PM
In the past few weeks I've been hypothesizing about a potential high op game. In this case, High op means ice assassin shenanigans and wish loops, but no epic feats at first level. What I'm looking for are ideas for opponents and a ban list. The universe functions on RAW and real world physics were it applies

Right now, I'm considering doing the old shadesteel golems with rudimentary intelligence and class levels, as well as some factotum/(psion or warblade or both), maybe that pugilist zombie trick (with the immune to damage interpretation).

As for banning, thus far, I just really don't like the idea of letting PCs get epic feats at low levels, (though it's okay in certain games, I think), so no dragonwrought Kobold stuff. Apart from that, I guess I have to ban Pun-Pun, simply because I KNOW one of them will bring such a character to the tab;e if it is not explicitly forbidden. Also no chicken infested, only because it'll end the world when they become a hive mind and start casting CL 10^1000 spells.
Epic feats at low levels are far less broken than the things you can do with Ice Assassins. Besides which, the vast majority of the epic feats have prereqs that you'll be hard-pressed to meet pre-Epic.

SRD feats you can actually qualify for at level 1:
Additional Magic Item Space - wear an additional magic item in a given slot. MIC makes this redundant.
Armor Skin - +1 Natural Armour. Whee.
Dire Charge - Pounce. Nice, but not broken.
Energy Resistance - resistance 10 to a single element. Probably not worth the feat slot, but thematically appropriate for a dragonwrought kobold.
Enhance Spell - very nice for blastercasters, but entirely useless at first level as it has a +4 adjustment on it.
Epic Fortitude - +4 to all fort saves. Yay?
Epic Prowess - essentially Weapon Focus (all). Still sucks.
Epic Reflexes - see Epic Fortitude.
Epic Reputation - +4 to social skills. Nice for a social monkey, still not broken at this level of optimisation.
Epic Spell Penetration (if a wizard and using flaws) - +2 vs spell resistance. Requires both spell pen feats. Why would you take this at level 1?
Epic Toughness - okay, +30 HP at level 1 is very nice, I'll grant. But this is probably the strongest feat available, and really? Hit points?
Epic Weapon Focus (if a fighter and using flaws) - +2 to attack with the chosen weapon. Requires both Focus and Specialisation. Really?
Epic Will - just to round out the set.
Extended Life Span. You're a dragon. Next!
Great <stat> - raise a stat by one point. A contender with Epic Toughness for best option, but really not all that broken at high op levels.
Holy Strike (if a paladin) - any weapon you hold is automatically Holy. Okay, this is incredibly nice for paladins. You get a +2 weapon enchantment for free. It's still not going to break the world.
Improved Darkvision - double the radius of your darkvision. Truly, this is real power.
Improved Low-light Vision - double the radius of your low-light vision. Even better than the last feat!
Penetrate Damage Reduction - your melee attacks, including natural attacks, overcome DR as if made out of a single special material of your choice.
Spellcasting Harrier (if a fighter, or using flaws) - enemy spellcasters you threaten still provoke AoOs for casting defensively. Very nice in a mageslayer build, but why are you building a kobold for melee?
Superior Initiative (if a fighter, or using flaws) - an additional +4 initiative (requires Improved Initiative). Sweet, but is it really worth being a dragonwrought kobold just to get this?
Unholy Strike (if a Paladin of Tyranny or Corruption) - see Holy Strike.

Note: You can pick up Tenacious Magic at level 12, which is pretty sweet but only applies to one spell. There are a few others that you can get access to pre-Epic but post level 1, but none of them are gamebreaking. Dragonwrought Kobolds seem like an awfully arbitrary ban if you're letting Ice Assassin and Wish loop cheese slide.

Eldariel
2013-12-14, 02:49 PM
Frank and K's Tomes (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=48453) explore this kind of a setting. Probably worth reading. Principally, things that can be Wished for have no real monetary value.