A few NPC builds and questions on Marshals

[Ranting Fool]

I'm writing up a number of NPC's the the PC's will meet as part of a merc/adventurers guild thing which they could recruit for different adventures.

Now these NPC's aren't aiming to be massively optimized and will either be useful buffers or be very focused in areas the PC's aren't. So they'll only hire them for a reason rather then have any one of them along all the time, though know them they'll end up liking one of the personalities and want to have them around more often.

1: How many levels would you (The Playground as a whole) suggest for Marshal before PRC out (I'm not a massive fan of 1-3 levels dip)?

2: Are there any druids who focus on shapeshifting (Even with a loss of spellcasting)?

3: What Tier is Dragon Shaman (For some reason it's not on the links i have)?

4: Does Multi-classing Casters (1:1) make them less powerful enough not to over shadow the party without making them useless to the party?

[Diovid]

1: How many levels would you (The Playground as a whole) suggest for Marshal before PRC out (I'm not a massive fan of 1-3 levels dip)?

2: Are there any druids who focus on shapeshifting (Even with a loss of spellcasting)?

3: What Tier is Dragon Shaman (For some reason it's not on the links i have)?

4: Does Multi-classing Casters (1:1) make them less powerful enough not to over shadow the party without making them useless to the party?
1: Well, the marshal is usually considered to be 1 or 2 levels long, 4 if you're stretching it. It just isn't a good class. There are ways to make it slightly better at what it does but even those generally do not change the fact that it offers you very very little above level 4. For example you could make the marshal a Spellscale (Races of the Dragon), give it the draconic aura and double draconic aura feats (Dragon Magic) and give it the Regalia of the Hero (item set from the Magic Item Compendium), the Rearguard's Cape (Magic Item Compendium) and a shield with the Inspiration (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070618a&page=4) property. There is a prc which actually advances the Marshal's abilities and that's the Mythic Exemplar (Complete Champion) and possibly the Squire of Legend from the same book as well, I can't remember. Edit: There is a somewhat lacking handbook for marshals found here: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3475.0.

2: No, not druids. There are rangers who focus on shapeshifting however, using this variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger). After 5 levels they go into the Master of Many Forms (Complete Adventurer), Nature's Warrior (Complete Warrior) and Warshaper (Complete Warrior) prcs.

3: The Dragon Shaman is usually considered to be Tier 4 but a higher tier 4 than the Marshal.

4: That entirely depends on the party, the kind of multi-classing, the kind of casters etc.

[nedz]

1: How many levels would you (The Playground as a whole) suggest for Marshal before PRC out (I'm not a massive fan of 1-3 levels dip)?
One.
Seriously, one level is excellent.
Two levels gets you a major aura, but these are misnamed: minor auras > major auras.
Three levels gets you another minor aura, but it's not worth two levels waiting for.
Four levels gets you GMA, which would be excellent if it was more than 1/day.


2: Are there any druids who focus on shapeshifting (Even with a loss of spellcasting)?
Well all Druids get Wild Shape if that's what you mean.


3: What Tier is Dragon Shaman (For some reason it's not on the links i have)?
Dragon Shaman is a bit like Marshal. One level is good, but more is bad.


4: Does Multi-classing Casters (1:1) make them less powerful enough not to over shadow the party without making them useless to the party?
It depends on the build and synergy.
Gishes and spell-monkeys are good but they can be built badly.
Bard 1 / Sorcerer 1 is very strong at level 2; but Bard 3 / Sorcerer 3 is very weak at level 6.

[Red Fel]

I think that others have helped you on Questions 1 and 3 better than I can, so I'll just skip around.



2: Are there any druids who focus on shapeshifting (Even with a loss of spellcasting)?

Consider a Shifter Druid. You get your Shifter shapechange in addition to Wild Shape. Note: Do not take the 5th-level ACF, it stinks on ice, because Shifter changing is inferior to Wild Shape. Note also: PrC into Moonspeaker, improve Wild Shape and Shifter changing, keep spells, juice summons. Warshaper is also a good PrC for shapeshifting.


4: Does Multi-classing Casters (1:1) make them less powerful enough not to over shadow the party without making them useless to the party?

Casters are complicated. A character with the same caster level as a non-caster's level (e.g. Wizard 6 compared to a Fighter 6) will have more diversity, and potentially more power as levels increase. But as soon as you lower caster level (e.g. a Wizard 6 vs. a Wizard 3/ Monk 3 or Sorcerer 3/ Cleric 3) that power level drops, substantially. For an offensive caster to be effective in a party, you need to be able to overcome SR and saves, and that usually requires a higher caster level (unless you focus on no save, SR: No-type spells). In short, it will make them less powerful, but it is also likely to cripple them. The easiest fix is on the player side, not the mechanics side - simply adjust your spellcasting tendencies to let the party shine.

[Ansem]

1: How many levels would you (The Playground as a whole) suggest for Marshal before PRC out (I'm not a massive fan of 1-3 levels dip)?

1 or 2(if you want major aura), you never want more than 2 dip in Marshal, the classes doesn't synergise with anything, you just want that aura and get out.

[Ranting Fool]

1 or 2(if you want major aura), you never want more than 2 dip in Marshal, the classes doesn't synergise with anything, you just want that aura and get out.

The free move action can be nice for melee builds that like full round attacks :smalltongue:

But yeah I see the point. It's a shame the class is so unimpressive at later levels.

[Urpriest]

I'm writing up a number of NPC's the the PC's will meet as part of a merc/adventurers guild thing which they could recruit for different adventures.

Now these NPC's aren't aiming to be massively optimized and will either be useful buffers or be very focused in areas the PC's aren't. So they'll only hire them for a reason rather then have any one of them along all the time, though know them they'll end up liking one of the personalities and want to have them around more often.

1: How many levels would you (The Playground as a whole) suggest for Marshal before PRC out (I'm not a massive fan of 1-3 levels dip)?

I wouldn't "PrC out". Marshals don't really have any abilities that need advancing, and "PrC out" implies a character that's primarily a Marshal using a PrC to enhance their Marshal-ness, which doesn't happen. Marshal is a class that gets taken for a few levels (1-3 or so) to add buffing potency onto a build that's primarily based on a another class. Basically, unless it's a level 1-3 character, it's not primarily a Marshal.


2: Are there any druids who focus on shapeshifting (Even with a loss of spellcasting)?

To be clear, do you want a Druid who focuses on shapeshifting, or a character who focuses on shapeshifting but isn't necessarily a Druid? Both are possible.


3: What Tier is Dragon Shaman (For some reason it's not on the links i have)?

Debatable. I'd call it Tier 5, others peg it at Tier 4.


4: Does Multi-classing Casters (1:1) make them less powerful enough not to over shadow the party without making them useless to the party?

Spells need to scale with level or they lose meaning. You want to nerf a caster, take away 2-3 levels, and focus the spell list on non-broken stuff. 1:1 multiclassing just makes the casting irrelevant.

[Blackhawk748]

Dragon Shaman can be Tier 4 if optimized right, usually by abusing their breath weapon (this is what ive heard) it is better than Marshal though. I would recommend a 2 lvl Fighter dip for your Dragon Shaman, get some good weapons better armor, and can actually do some good fighting styles.

[Ranting Fool]

To be clear, do you want a Druid who focuses on shapeshifting, or a character who focuses on shapeshifting but isn't necessarily a Druid? Both are possible.


Just thinking shapeshifting class could be cool for an NPC. But non-druid is better then druid. Better to shift into creatures rather then races with int 3+.


I'm making a whole bunch of NPC's but on the whole I'd like them to be Tier 4 or un-op 3's. Since so far 2 our of 3 PC's are Tier 4.

They are starting at level 3.
We have Archer Ranger (Who might Prc or just go full ranger) wants to be Aragorn :smalltongue:
And a Barbarian/battle sor/Dragon Disciple (That is the plan from what he tells me) so charging forward and hitting things very hard. And breaking down doors/walls/mountains. I'm quite sure he'd love to arm wrestle a giant or so at some point know him :smallbiggrin:
The other wanted to be an Archivist but most likely won't because of difference in Tier and might try out some flavor of skill monkey.

So just making a load of NPC's which won't step on toes / be Small BBEG's :smallbiggrin: