Help with an Upcoming Fight

[Kesnit]

In the last session of our 3.5 game, we ended right before going into combat. (The party agreed we need time to plan.)

The enemy is a homebrewed undead tentacle monster with 30' reach. One hit from a tentacle will almost certainly kill a PC. Magic does not seem to work near the monster. (According to the DM, wands will work.)

Party make-up:
Human Ranger/Druid (shapeshift variant) - total of 9 levels, but I am not sure of the breakdown.
Human Favored Soul/Ranger - 7 or 8 levels. Again, I don't know the breakdown
Bobcat Rogue 8 - The Rogue is awakened and capable of communicating with the party. However, she does not have hands, and has no UMD.
Rogue 2/Druid 5/Daggerspell Shaper 1 (me) - Since I went DS Shaper, my feats are TWF, WF (Dagger), Weapon Finesse, and Natural Spell. I do not have a ranged weapon because I was counting on either using magic or getting in melee range.

We may also have an Expert/Psion (total of 8 levels) and a Truenamer (with 5 levels).

The Ranger/Druid uses a bow for combat, so he will plink away with that. The FS/Ranger is holding a banner that buffs the party, and needs both hands. So she is effectively out of combat.

My question relates to me and the Rogue. The FS told me she has Cure wands in her pack, and since they are on the Druid spell list, I can use them. The Rogue, however, has no ideas for anything she can do. (She built for stealth, traps, locks, and melee sneak attack.)

Does anyone have any ideas for something either the Rogue or I can do (other than Cure Wands)?

[Another_Poet]

Well, your party's strengths are Sneak Attack and magic, neither of which will work here.

You told us your party's class makeup, which is appreciated, but you didn't say what kind of wands you have other than Cure. Your wand inventory is probably the most important thing to review and consider, since nothing else will work. I'd start there.

Otherwise, here are some ideas.

Do psionics and truenaming powers work in the plant's presence? That would be awesome.
I wouldn't actually engage with the Cure wands. They are Touch spells. You need to cross a 30' zone of AoOs. Creatures with reach and tentacles usually get multiple AoOs. You stated this creature could kill a party member with one blow. It's a suicide charge.
What about indirect use of magic? Can you summon creatures as a aafe distance, and send them in to fight?
Can you cast Entangle at a distance to put a barrier between you & it? This would help with keeping out of its reach.
Other than that, everyone should use bows... keep backing away and hitting it. If it's a wide open space, back away in different directions so it can't follow you all. If it's an enclosed space, create a barrier so it can't close the distance to you. Use a mundane barrier if needed.

[Callin]

Buy the DM a pizza?

Seriously though, that is a druid/ranger heavy group lol. I wish I could help but I am drawing a blank. I mean you really dont have much to work with. You have a Shapeshifter Melee, a buffer that does not do much, you are melee, and a cat.

Look to your surroundings and see if you can drop it off a cliff or collapse the ceiling onto it. Or Wildshape into something that can fly that is Large (hopefully) and carry off your teammates.

Oh yea the Psion and the Truenamer. Look to the Psion?

[cakellene]

What about using magic on the environment to trap the creature?

[Andezzar]

What about using magic on the environment to trap the creature?I think the OP said magic does not work around the creature so the creature might be surrounded by an AMF or similar.

If you have time to go to town, have the Favored soul buy lots of Summon Monster spells.

Druid 5 should have some good buff spells. Not sure if they work around the creature though.

[cakellene]

I think the OP said magic does not work around the creature so the creature might be surrounded by an AMF or similar.

If you have time to go to town, have the Favored soul buy lots of Summon Monster spells.

Druid 5 should have some good buff spells. Not sure if they work around the creature though.

He said wands work though, so seems some kind of funky fudging by DM.

[Slipperychicken]

What does the environment look like? Cave? Underwater? Outside? Is there a ceiling?

[jaydubs]

As far as magic working, what is "near the creature?"

There are some spells (instantaneous conjuration) that will cut through anti-magic fields since they create something mundane. For instance, splinterbolt creates a high speed wooden javelin. That real object isn't going to stop moving or stop existing once magic stops working.

You might also consider summoning creatures that have ranged attacks. For instance, SNA III can give you a satyr that comes with a shortbow. Give him real, non-summoned arrows to shoot. Similarly, air elementals (SNA II) are usually depicted as having a generally humanoid form, which gives them simple weapon proficiency. Give them some small light crossbows or slings, and plink away.

The bobcat rogue can... I'm not sure. Lure it away?

[Slipperychicken]

If it doesn't have ranged attacks, you could totally be faster than it (especially if you have access to mounts), and just kite it to death.

Also, always have a backup ranged weapon. Even when you're a magic-user. It costs almost nothing (if you have a sling, it actually does cost nothing), and might sometimes come in handy, so there's no excuse.

[Kesnit]

You told us your party's class makeup, which is appreciated, but you didn't say what kind of wands you have other than Cure.

To be honest, I don't know. I only know about the Cure wands since the FS player mentioned to me. I'll ask at game.


Do psionics and truenaming powers work in the plant's presence? That would be awesome.

Psionics probably not. The DM uses magic-psi transparancy, so if magic doesn't work, psionics won't. If the TN is there, his powers may work.


I wouldn't actually engage with the Cure wands. They are Touch spells. You need to cross a 30' zone of AoOs. Creatures with reach and tentacles usually get multiple AoOs. You stated this creature could kill a party member with one blow. It's a suicide charge.

Learn something new every day. I always thought wands were usable at range. If they aren't, my only idea to be useful goes out the window.


What about indirect use of magic? Can you summon creatures as a safe distance, and send them in to fight?

There is an area a good ways away where magic works. Not sure about summoning, though. The DM seems to have specifically set up this area to keep the Paladin from summoning his Red Dragon mount, which leads me to think that the only place to summon is on the other side of a 5' wide hallway.

(Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the Paladin. He's a Paladin 7, fully build for melee.)


Can you cast Entangle at a distance to put a barrier between you & it? This would help with keeping out of its reach.

Staying away from it won't be an issue. It cannot move.


If you have time to go to town, have the Favored soul buy lots of Summon Monster spells.

Not a bad idea. I don't know what scrolls we'd be able to find, but I can bring that one up.


Druid 5 should have some good buff spells. Not sure if they work around the creature though.

If we back out far enough and the party gives me a night to rest, I can swap to all buff spells. But they would all have to be pre-cast from a distace away, since the AMF seems to extend through the entire area.


What does the environment look like? Cave? Underwater? Outside? Is there a ceiling?

It's an abandoned underground temple. The tentacle monster is at the end of a long, wide hallway. The only way in or out is through a 5' wide passage. IIRC, it is about 50' from the entrance to the closest we can get to the tentacle monster.


As far as magic working, what is "near the creature?"

The only place I know for sure magic works is right at the entrance to the hallway.


There are some spells (instantaneous conjuration) that will cut through anti-magic fields since they create something mundane. For instance, splinterbolt creates a high speed wooden javelin. That real object isn't going to stop moving or stop existing once magic stops working.

I can check those out. They need a really long range, though.


You might also consider summoning creatures that have ranged attacks. For instance, SNA III can give you a satyr that comes with a shortbow. Give him real, non-summoned arrows to shoot. Similarly, air elementals (SNA II) are usually depicted as having a generally humanoid form, which gives them simple weapon proficiency. Give them some small light crossbows or slings, and plink away.[quote]

That would work, except we don't have any extra weapons to give. The DM may allow me to say the Satyr arrives with a bow (since bow is listed in their write-up). I'll have to ask.

[quote]The bobcat rogue can... I'm not sure. Lure it away?

Yeah, she's a major problem. :smallfrown:


Also, always have a backup ranged weapon. Even when you're a magic-user. It costs almost nothing (if you have a sling, it actually does cost nothing), and might sometimes come in handy, so there's no excuse.

At this point, mundane weapons become more and more useless. And I already had to spend my WBL on statting up two weapons and appropriate gear, so didn't have a lot left over to spend on a magical bow that would probably never be used.

Besides, I'm a DRUID! That whole "bears with a bear summoning bears" thing..? (OK, so my animal companion is actually a wolf. But anyway...)

[Kerilstrasz]

summon flying creatures, ride em and fly above it..
use arrows,wands of stone or iron wall (let the walls drop on the creature), and oil flasks with some lit torches
is the creature in a cave? collapse his exit pathway and trap him in the smallest space possible.. start filling the space with water(create water)
is it in a structure? same as above
is it at the open? arrows and wands thingie i said 1st..
see if there is a city nearby that can rend you a hot air balloon...
or flying mounts..

[jaydubs]

Staying away from it won't be an issue. It cannot move.



Wait, so what's the problem? I know it might not be as exciting for the melee players, but if the monster can't move, why can't you just stay really far back and have the guy with the bow just keep attacking until it dies?

[WbtE]

Do you have to fight this thing? As it can't move, is there any chance of just going around it or leaving well-enough alone?

[nedz]

Can someone else hold the banner ?
Do you even need the buff up in the encounter ?

[Andezzar]

It's an abandoned underground temple. The tentacle monster is at the end of a long, wide hallway. The only way in or out is through a 5' wide passage. IIRC, it is about 50' from the entrance to the closest we can get to the tentacle monster.Do you need to go past that monster? If not, collapse the ceiling/seal the hallway. It is not necessary to kill the monster to win the encounter.

[Kesnit]

summon flying creatures, ride em and fly above it..

Summons don't work past the 5' hallway.


use arrows,

Which only 1 person has.


wands of stone or iron wall

Which we don't have.


and oil flasks with some lit torches

We can't get within 30' of the tentacles.


Wait, so what's the problem? I know it might not be as exciting for the melee players, but if the monster can't move, why can't you just stay really far back and have the guy with the bow just keep attacking until it dies?

Which is a plan... And leaves all but one player sitting around on our rears for about an hour. And with the way the DM gives XP, if we don't contribute to the solution, we get no XP. So the Ranger/Druid would probably get 7000 XP and the rest of us none.


Do you have to fight this thing? As it can't move, is there any chance of just going around it or leaving well-enough alone?

If we don't fight it, we don't get any XP. Which means we wasted most of last session to get nowhere.


Can someone else hold the banner ?

Probably, but it still works out the same. Except two people actually get to act.


Do you even need the buff up in the encounter ?

Probably not. Except it may go faster.


Do you need to go past that monster? If not, collapse the ceiling/seal the hallway. It is not necessary to kill the monster to win the encounter.

Yes, we do. The loot is under the monster

[WbtE]

If we don't fight it, we don't get any XP.

OK. I guess you're making a rational decision in an irrational world.

[jaydubs]

Oh wow, that's just... a weird way to do XP.

Okay, so I'm going to give you a Macgyver-esque, everyone gets XP plan.

Slings are free. You don't have to buy them, apparently your characters just find them or make them somehow. It's entirely possible to weave a sling out of any type of string or cord (I've actually done this myself, and there are videos on youtube). So as long as someone in your party has rope, you can unravel it and weave a set of slings for everyone in the party.

Now, slings can use ordinary rocks as ammunition. You take a penalty, but it can be done. Bobcats can pick up rocks in their mouths. She gets to be your ammo monkey. So the plan now is for everyone without a ranged weapon to start weaving a sling, and for the bobcat to start wandering around the temple looking for stray rocks. Then, you pelt the monster with rocks until the it dies.

Everyone contributed, so everyone gets XP. Does that sound like something your DM would allow?

[Kesnit]

OK. I guess you're making a rational decision in an irrational world.

I missed something here. :smallconfused:

[Tommy2255]

I missed something here. :smallconfused:

He's saying your DM is being weird. That's not how xp is supposed to work. Your actions make sense in the context of an dumb rule that doesn't make sense.

[nedz]

So they guy who plays the caster aiming to one shot every encounter keeps on winning. He won't always succeed, but when he does he hogs the xp and pulls ahead. Now anyone could do this, it's just easier with casters. This is kind of a linear Fighter exponential Wizard ruling isn't it ?

[AMFV]

So they guy who plays the caster aiming to one shot every encounter keeps on winning. He won't always succeed, but when he does he hogs the xp and pulls ahead. Now anyone could do this, it's just easier with casters. This is kind of a linear Fighter exponential Wizard ruling isn't it ?

Depending on how the DM classes "contributions" if it's a damage related thing then a god Wizard will fall far behind very very quickly.

[Andezzar]

Depending on how the DM classes "contributions" if it's a damage related thing then a god Wizard will fall far behind very very quickly.Then make an übercharger - preferably one that flies with perfect maneuverability and belts of battle/extra movement actions. Round one charge, one creature dies, round two (possibly extra movement to set up another charge) charge, another creature dies. repeat as often as necessary.

Not sure about the damage potential of the tentacle beast, but usually a creature can get only one AoO per provoking action. Additionally movement only is one provocation regardless of how many threatened squares you exit.
So closing in on the creature you will only be hit a maximum of one time. That should be survivable unless the creature can kill/shut you down in a single hit.

[nedz]

Depending on how the DM classes "contributions" if it's a damage related thing then a god Wizard will fall far behind very very quickly.

SoDs which do some damage on a made save would seem to be optimal.
If the encounter is against a single foe then either you take all the xp, or at least a portion.

[PersonMan]

Which is a plan... And leaves all but one player sitting around on our rears for about an hour. And with the way the DM gives XP, if we don't contribute to the solution, we get no XP. So the Ranger/Druid would probably get 7000 XP and the rest of us none.

Ignoring the weird XP thing, just pass the bow around. Take turns shooting it.

[Andezzar]

Ignoring the weird XP thing, just pass the bow around. Take turns shooting it.Maybe that will also cause the DM to rethink his weird XP distribution system.

[Slipperychicken]

Ignoring the weird XP thing, just pass the bow around. Take turns shooting it.

Yeah, if it's really such an issue, pass around your bow until everyone hits it once.

The XP reward and party participation can go suck a 10ft pole. If you accomplish your objective, you won IMO.

Also, you don't have to spend 1000gp for your backup weapon. You could just cast Magic Weapon on your backup nonmagical weapon.

[Andezzar]

The XP reward and party participation can go suck a 10ft pole. If you accomplish your objective, you won IMO.That is RAW too.


Also, you don't have to spend 1000gp for your backup weapon. You could just cast Magic Weapon on your backup nonmagical weapon.it's 2000 gp unless you enchant it yourself. You would also need a masterwork weapon unless you use the spell.