Elf Dilettante is bad?

[questionmark693]

I heard mention recently that Elf Dilettante (a feat) is a bad choice, and easily sub par, especially compared to able learner. But it looks pretty alright to me....what am I missing?

[Elderand]

You are missing the fact that elf dilletante is just a flat +1 bonus and allow untrained check but doesn't change the class/cross class distinction specificly the fact that cross class skill cost twice as much as class skills.

Able learner will outpace elf dilletante so fast you'll think it's gone supersonic.

[questionmark693]

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks :smallsmile:

[Pyromancer999]

Elf Dilettante is basically Jack of all Trades with a bonus to untrained skill checks. However, the reason Able Learner is so good is when combined with Factotum 1(or to a lesser but similar effect, Human Paragon 1), you get all the skills in the game as class skills for every class. That is good for PrC entry as well as a great deal many other things. That is why it is so good.

Edit: Ninja'd.

[hymer]

Not that there are a lot of characters who would actually have to choose between them, mind. The main advantage about the dilletante is for someone with few or no knowledge skills, being allowed to make checks as trained in all of them. Not that I'm recommending it.

[thethird]

Elf Dilettante is to Bardic Knack what Able Learner is to Factotum. :smallsmile:

[Seffbasilisk]

Elf Dilettante is best if you don't have a lot of skillpoints, or aim to specialize. I'm currently playing a Druid who has that, and from level 1-16, it's been useful.

I make knowledge checks on everything, I could aid another on the rogue picking locks, and spot-check the forgeries. Untrained UMD and Tumble are surprisingly useful at low levels, but the meat and potatoes of it is the knowledge checks. Int mod+1 on every single one?

Well, most DMs I've played under give penalties for making a 'related' knowledge check, or going for a 'broad' category, like Knowledge Religion on a Divine spell. Flipping that, specific knowledge checks should come with bonuses.

Also? Knowledge (Local: Everywhere.)

First time the party's in a new town? Well, you know where the best inns are, the armorer, which guard uniform has to be paid attention to, where to buy magic items, where to sell *cough* goods from uncle *cough*.

Sometimes I get a little Meta and roll Knowledge (Plot), but that's mostly for my own amusement.

[KillianHawkeye]

Able Learner is only able to be taken by humans and dopplegangers (and changelings). Elf Dilettante, only by elves. There doesn't seem to be much point in comparing them as if you actually had a choice between one or the other.

Beyond that, they don't even look like they're designed to fulfill the same purpose. One lets you train in any skill with ease (but you're still limited by the number of skill points your class gets), the other lets you be marginally better at EVERY skill you haven't trained in.