[Pathfinder] How to fix the Artificer

[Jarred Stone]

Surely, after Christmas, I will be DMing some kind of steampunk campaign using Pathfinder. Every class is easily adapted to those tims, but I have a little problem. The Artificer.

You know, the coolest thing about steampunk is about being a mad inventor. In fact, my player will surely be a summoner (ala Doctor Frankestein with his Eidolon), an alchemist and, of course, an artificer.

I have been looking at the Third Party version the Tome of Secrets has about the Artificer but, I am seeing a little too unbalanced. Both for the good and bad of the player. Source: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer

How could I fix this? He actually wants a tinker or some kind of engineer. I have seen the D&D 3.5 version and, well, it sounds more like a mage with a lot with Use Magical Device instead of the "inventor" aura he is looking for. Any ideas to fix it or, at least, some kind of variant or option to take it as a Artificer?

[MeeposFire]

Well the 3e artificer was actually a builder of magic items. He could build almost anything involving magic. You could invent new magic items easily using that artificer too. They were also the masters of using items and magical constructs such as wands. However they were not builders of mechanical machines unless they ran on magic.

There was a tinkerer class in the Warcraft D&D game which does utilize machines and the like however it is not really a strong class and really lacks a strong role in a party.

[Lord Raziere]

hm....I might have one thing. a friend of mine once made a class based upon a character I made, that used gadgets, and might just solve your problem. are okay with it being a little heavy on guns and bombs? I have others if you dislike that option, for I once scoured the net for pathfinder artificer classes, and while I came up with many, I don't know which one I really find acceptable, I have even made my own, it was considered very powerful.


The Gizmark

You know the theories of science state that if I mix this, with a bit of this and push this button. What you mean, don't push the button? I wanna though!" - Brogben A gnomish Gizmark

Biography The idea of science itself is widely seen as blasphemy by the stuffy arcane sorts and the preachy divine sorts. Yet it's still there, the ideas that the cosmos does not do things randomly but that laws of universal theory hold everything from going ape **** and exploding under some gods temper tantrum. Gizmarks are the product of this theory and way of life. Gizmarks often come into conflict with damn well everyone too uninformed to realize their destructive brand of genius - some call it insanity- but those who do come to know them often follow a well worn style of dealing with their mad tinkerings the theory of "smile and Nod" Thats to say, when a Gizmark starts being all science talk just nod your head and smile like you understand a word spewing out of their mouth. Everyone wins.


Abilities Gizmarks are men and women of intellect and science, it;s not their fault the dull heathens fail to comprehend the simplicity of their works. Int is the top priority for Gizmarks, it powers their abilities, saves and helps them in all ways. Cha is a close second at least if you intent to try and get along with people your working with. Generally speaking Gizmarks rarely focus on any combat ability bus Dex, they abhor being close to uncivilized and un enlightened folks. Why confront a Orc with fisticuffs when you can blow em away with a Grenade?


In The World - Gizmarks make excellent companions in the strange worlds abroad and locally. Their accute sense of wonder and keen - some say annoyingly- perceptive senses and thinking make them experts at circumventing traps and difficult situations by knowing the exact key points to strike and who to bribe when that fails. They frequently adventure, seeking new ways to tinker and design their strange tech gizmos, knowledge is key and Gizmarks horde it almost with Draconic fashion, many often buy out whole libraries or find secluded citadels and massive keeps with which to store and design their works.


Races Gnomes and Halflings have a disastrous love affair with the skills of the Gizmark, they just adore finding new theories and blowing the religious and old world theories to hell in a hand basket. The level of adoration these races have is only equaled by the loathing races like the Elves have for it. Elves live in harmony with the cycles of nature, they do not care to figure out what makes nature tick, it simply is. So when a Gizmark comes by and very casually starts to explain why things work, and thus blowing the mystery of nature to heck the Elves tend to get violently annoyed.


Class Stats
BAB Poor
Good Saves Will, Ref
Class Skills Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Knowledge ( Engineering), Perception, Sleight of Hand.
Skill Ranks Per level 8 + Int mod
Proficiencies Gizmarks are proficient with all simple and Martial weapons as well as Light and Medium Armor and Shields ( but not Tower shields)
Role Gizmarks are best kept to rear lines, often leading parties with their deft combat analysis, quick acting special abilities and of course using their trademarked Grenades and Gizmo Guns.
Alignment Any Good or Neutral.


Class Features
Gizmark Knowledge, Gizmo Gun Lvl 1, Grenade Lvl 1
Theory of Explosives
Scientific Principle
Gizmo Gun Lvl 2, Grenade Lvl 2
Theory of Understanding
Gizmo Breakthrough
Gizmo Gun Lvl 3, Grenade Lvl 3
Theory of Cosmic Frivolity
Scientific Principle
Gizmo Gun Lvl 4, Grenade Lvl 4
Theory of Supreme Idiocy
Gizmo Breakthrough
Gizmo Gun Lvl 5, Grenade Lvl 5
Theory Of Random Destruction
Scientific Principle
Gizmo Gun Lvl 6, Grenade Lvl 6
Theory of Mass Destruction
Gizmo Breakthrough
Perfected Gizmo Tech.
Theory of Galactic Inspiration


Feature Descriptions


Gizmark Knowledge - At first level the Gizmark gains a intuitive understanding of how things work. he gains a +4 bonus on Disable device checks and on any check in regards to understanding how a item be it magical or mundane works and triggers.


Gizmo Gun (EX) Gizmarks love their toys, and they love nothing more then showing the unenlightened and poor sods who still use crude weaponry how real adventurers operate. At level one they craft their first real toy called the Gizmo gun. Which is a unique fire arm that only the Gizmark can use. The weapon is a ranged exotic weapon, that deals 1d6 damage with a crit of x2 and a range of 15ft. Initially the Gizmo gun has no special powers however as it levels the Gizmark develops new sorts of round and shapes for the gun enhancing it's abilities. As listed below Changing his guns configuration is a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity

Shotgun! Lvl 1 - At Level one the Gizmark learns to shorten the barrel and load a secret blend of shot and gunpowder. The Guns range drops to 10ft but it's damage buffs to 1d8 and deals half damage to foes adjcent to the target,


Sniper Piper: Lvl 2 At level two the Gozmark develops the tech to hit at range like the little bastard he is. His gun barrel elongates and he learns how to form a special ranged round and a strange clockwork scope of sorts. The guns range doubles, deals 1d8 damage but requires a full round action to fire.


Splosions?! Lvl 3- At level 3 the Gizmark learns to use explosive rounds, when his gun is in default configuration his shots deal 2d6 damage now.


Dual Wield Baby! Lvl 4 - At level four the Gizmark understands the glory of twins. he can break his one gun down into two shorter simpler models, he can dual wield and fire a shot from each as a standard action, the guns deal 1d6 damage each and can be aimed at two different targets within range.


Special Delivery Lvl 5 - At level five the Gizmo gun gains a new configuration, as a full round action the Gozmark can configure himself a strange device called a launcher. The weapon takes a standard action to fire and fires a compressed shell of magical gunpowder. The attack is ranged, 40ft but targets a spot not a specific target. On impact every enemy in 10ft must make a DC ( 10+ Int Mod) ref save or be exposed to a massive explosive charge for 2d10 damage. This weapon takes two full rounds to reload and provokes attacks of opportunity while doing so.


Rapid Fireeeee! Lvl 6 - At level 6 the Gizmarks gun evolves to a final stage, he may now spend a full round action to make one attack at every target within 15ft. This ability can be used only once every 2 rounds


Grenade (EX) - At level one the Gizmark claims fundamental understanding of things that go boom. They learn to craft small devices that may seem like Alchemic bombs but are more accurately not remotely similar. They Begin each day with a stock pile of 3 Basic Grenades for their use, these weapons are ranged attacks with a range of 35 ft that are exotic weapons that deal 1d6 damage.

To use one the Gizmark simply primes it and throws [standard action]. The weapon lands in a square targeted and explodes 1 round later.

To make more Grenades the Gizmark needs 2 hours of undisturbed work - Or a full round action which provokes attacks of opportunity-, and a Craft Check with a DC 15 to successfully merge and meld the workings. Otherwise he simply needs to wait and compile his stock again that night without the need for the check.

Due to the complex workings he cannot have more then 4 Grenades on him at any one time, they are volatile, dangerous and cannot be stored safely if he over stuffs his special pouches.

At each level he develops new twists to his Grenade technology. He may prep any sort of grenade he knows at the beginning of each day however To alter the configuration of his Grenades on the fly he needs a DC Craft check, each mod alters the baseline DC to craft them. He may craft any grenades he knows at the start of the day


Double Whammy, Lvl 1 (DC +2) - The Crafted Grenade now triggers twice, granting two explosive attacks. it detonates once as normal then again 1d2 rounds later.


Sticky Bomb! Lvl 2 (DC +6) - The Crafted Grenade now sticks to targets, it;s treated as a ranged touch attack now and not a typical ranged attack. It can also be stuck to walls or other areas.


Long Ball, Lvl 3 (DC +8) - The Grenade now gains +20 ft to its distance when thrown, detonates on impact with anything it touches and cannot be thrown back.


Hello Sleepy Susan, Lvl 4 (DC +10) At level four the Gizmark learns to swap out his explosive charge with a devilish mixture of sleeping potion and paralytic toxin. Rather then dealing damage targets need a DC ( 15 + Int mod) Fort save or be put into a magical sleep or 1d6 rounds.


Jumping Jimminy, Lvl 5 (DC + 12) - The weapon is thrown as normal but instantly teleports within 1d3 spaces of the target and promptly explodes.


Can you say Kablooey? Lvl 6 (DC +15) - These special Grenades are double loaded with a extra volatile mix their damage improves to 1d10


Theory of Explosives - The Gizmark loves to make things go boom. At any time he may make special "modification" to mechanical or magical objects and rig them to explode when used. Doing so requires he make a DC check = to the items normal craft check. If he succeeds the item appears normal but when used it explodes for 1d10 damage.


Scientific Principle - The Gizmark loves his science, at this level and each named level afterward he gains a staking bonus of +1 to his atk rolls with his Gizmo weapons or a +1 bonus to his Craft checks when altering or crafting Gizmo weapons.


Theory Of Understanding - The Gizmarks keen sight and perception allow him to analyze combat and it's flow with brutal insights. For every round combat goes on the Gizmark gains a +1 sacred bonus to any Perception checks used to identify a foes specific weakness. This ability reduces the foes overall AC by 1 point for every successful check the Gizmark makes. Making a Check is a Full round action on the Part of the Gizmark.


Gizmo Break Through. The Gizmak is never happy, always trying to find some new toys and trinkets that cause havoc. At each named level the Gizmark uncovers the theory and use of a New Gizmo. He may choose one from the List below at each named level.


Jetpack - The Gizmark develops a strange contraption he calls a Jetpack. he gains a fly speed of 20ft Average and can take off and land as a move action. However the Jetpack is volatile, each time it's activated roll a d4, On a roll of 4, 3, or 2 The unit works as described. a roll of 1 causes the item to malfunction and explode dealing 1d4 damage to the Gizmark. He can repair the device as a full round action for no cost.


All Seeing Goggles - The Gizmark develops a strange set of goggles, the items grant either low light vision or Darkvision out 15ft.


Techno Glove The Gizmark develops a unique gauntlet like weapon, as a standard action he can fire a explosive spike from his little weapon dealing 1d6 damage to a target within 20ft as a range attack. The spike explodes on crit dealing triple damage.


Springheel Boots - The Gismark can load special springs into his boots that can be triggered as a move action granting a +4 bonus on acrobatics checks and jump checks.


Grenade Belt - The Player gains improved storage of his grenades developing a small pouch filled belt, his max storage or Grenades now improves to 8 and he needs only one hour of undisturbed time to make new ones.


Theory of Cosmic Frivolity - The Gizmark now understands the idea that the cosmos does whatever the hell it wants but, that randomness can be utilized. Any time the Gizmark makes a successful save against a spell or ability roll a 1d4, if the result is a 3 or greater, the spell rebounds and instead targets the caster of that ability.


Theory of Supreme Idiocy It's funny when your so smart and everyone else is plain old stupid. 4/day the Gizmark may rebuke a target within 10ft that he can see with a scathing insult to their IQ. The target needs a DC Will save ( 10 + Int mod) or they become acutely demoralized and Dazed for 4 rounds.


Theory of Random Destruction - stuff just ain't made like it should be from this point forward anytime the Gizmark is subjected to any ability, class feature, spell etc even from allies it has a 50% chance to fail entirely and not effect the Gizmark. Roll a 1d4 every time an ability targets the Gizmark, a roll of 3 or 4 carry out the effect and save normally a roll of 1 or 2 and the effect simply bounces off to target a random creature within the effects range.


Theory of Mass Destruction - Ohh big explosions are soo much better. At this level the Gizmark now enjoys a improved bang for his buck. The Radius for his Grenades now improves to 40ft.


Perfected Grenade Tech - At this Level the Gizmark unlocks a faster way to make his stuff. He can Create Grenades as a full round action and enjoys a improved stockpile of grenades which improves to 12.


Theory of Galactic Inspiration at level 20 the Gismark gains his epiphany moment. He may now craft and modify Grenades as standard actions - though he still cannot over exceed his limit of 12- and he gains the ability to take 10 on any Craft check used to make, or fix Gizmark devices.

[Ravens_cry]

The Summoner could easily be fluffed as someone constantly tinkering and working on a 'pet' automaton, or even several depending on archetype. It could even be a mini-mecha if you use the Synthesist archetype.

[Lord Raziere]

hm, maybe there needs to be multiple kinds of tech classes, just like there are multiple divine or arcane classes. a guy who uses a bunch of little devices is different from a power suit guy, who is different from a cyborg, and so on. putting them all under "artificer", I don't think will cover all the different things technology can do.

[Ravens_cry]

hm, maybe there needs to be multiple kinds of tech classes, just like there are multiple divine or arcane classes. a guy who uses a bunch of little devices is different from a power suit guy, who is different from a cyborg, and so on. putting them all under "artificer", I don't think will cover all the different things technology can do.
I can agree with this statement.
You could also add feats to let other classes use more advanced technology as well.

[Jarred Stone]

The Summoner could easily be fluffed as someone constantly tinkering and working on a 'pet' automaton, or even several depending on archetype. It could even be a mini-mecha if you use the Synthesist archetype.

In fact, the summoner's Eidolon is some kind of homunculus droid after his idealised vission of he (now dead) wife. And, the alchemist, is actually a warforged demolition man, more focused on bombs than on "biological solutions" like potions and stuff like that.

Another thing I was wondering is the fact that, in Pathfinder, every firearm is a ranged touch attack withing 30 ft. I know in the XIX century, armor was almost unuseful but, someone knows about a way to make possible a tankish character too as an option? Like the typical BBEG who has a steel plate under his shirt to stop some of the shoots.

[Vortenger]

Um...whats wrong with the Artificer? Its not much different than the original from Eberron, and is quite a bit more friendly to use in combat than the infusion system. What is it you think needs fixing?

Some suggestions: 1. Like the original Artificer, I'd suggest making the scrolls the Arty crafts non divine and non-arcane, so every wizard, alchemist, and witch isn't tying the poor slob to a chair and using him to bloat their spellbooks. Yes, this means the scroll must be UMD'd to work ( and you'll finally get to use that awesome scroll mishap table).

2. Weird Science inventions are pretty cool, but the UMD rules regarding them may need some tweaking in-game.

Those things aside, the PF Artificer is still pretty much the same ol' T1 campaign smashing monstrosity it and the wizard and ilk have always been. The class can do anything, its the player you may have to reign in.

[WbtE]

The Jack of all Trades through to Exemplar abilities don't really make sense and should be axed. An Artificer is quite a specialised profession. I'd suggest giving them 6+ skill points (one part compensation, one part rationalisation).

Looking at the spell abilities, they're very impressive at low levels but seem to fall well behind at higher levels. Granted, there's versatility there, but I think a progression more like the Bard's would make more sense.

I also suggest modifying the "Elbow Grease" ability to affect only one Craft initially and let the increases either stack up or be dispersed as the player desires. (It's likely that this will not matter.)

The class should probably have some special competency against golems and when wrecking mechanical or magical objects.

[mucat]

How could I fix this? He actually wants a tinker or some kind of engineer. I have seen the D&D 3.5 version and, well, it sounds more like a mage with a lot with Use Magical Device instead of the "inventor" aura he is looking for. Any ideas to fix it or, at least, some kind of variant or option to take it as a Artificer?
When I played a 3.5 Eberron artificer once, I asked the GM for permission to "refluff" many of her creations as magitech gizmos rather than scrolls, wands, etc. They still followed the exact same rules for creation and activation, of course.

This worked especially well for the artificer scrolls. Scrolls were the mainstay of her combat tricks at low level, and since they're errata'd as "neither arcane nor divine, but just artificer scrolls," there is no reason at all they can't look like something more interesting. I remember that her Entangle "scrolls", for example, involved a sort of grenade launcher that lobbed a canister over her enemies, then detonated it to rain plant-growth serum down on the area...

[Vortenger]

The Jack of all Trades through to Exemplar abilities don't really make sense and should be axed. An Artificer is quite a specialised profession. I'd suggest giving them 6+ skill points (one part compensation, one part rationalisation).

Looking at the spell abilities, they're very impressive at low levels but seem to fall well behind at higher levels. Granted, there's versatility there, but I think a progression more like the Bard's would make more sense.

I also suggest modifying the "Elbow Grease" ability to affect only one Craft initially and let the increases either stack up or be dispersed as the player desires. (It's likely that this will not matter.)

The class should probably have some special competency against golems and when wrecking mechanical or magical objects.

When compared to a bard, the Arty comes out ahead, but you can see quite a few parallels. And by this rubric, we should nerf bard's skill abilities as well , because the Bard is a quite a specialized profession (one part sarcasm, one part rationalisation).

1. Why doesn't Exemplar make sense? This is a skill-monkey class, and DND/PF is known for giving skill classes more skill uses, not less. When not crafting those skills are mandatory for the Arty to be useful. I do think that the skill points assigned are a little wacky. Compare to a bard who has slightly more skill access, points, and the same skill abilities, with more!

2. The spell progression comes on a little fast and ends at access to ALL 4th level spells and below. When speaking of a skill based class in need of versatility, I can't think of a better way to do that. Thankfully stopping us at 4th level spells prevents too much spell abuse. Compare to a bard who gets up to 2 level higher spells, but from a limited list.

3. I think it won't matter...so why complicate things needlessly? Don't do this.

4. The Arty has access to almost all construct bashing tools in the game. There's no need to add in new crunch. Moreover, with base classes it is generally considered bad design to incorporate corner-case-use abilities. (PF witches and 3.5 rogues lament auto-immune creatures enough already)

@Mucat: The PF Artificer does not have the specific language to say that it's spells are neither arcane or divine, and as such they default to arcane. Because of the can of worms that opens in a campaign world, I agree it should be treated as such, but that is not the default.

[Draz74]

Ernir's Tinkerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232069) should be easy to adapt to PF. It might be kinda underpowered unless you're willing to also convert some feats and possibly soulmelds from Incarnum to PF as well. (The whole class runs on a re-fluffed version of Incarnum mechanics.)

[malonkey1]

Also, my homebrew class, the Arcane Engineer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291410), is specifically designed as a machine maker, and could fit well in a Steampunk setting. I cannot say that I am well-versed in the 3.P Artificer, so I can't help you there.

[Ravens_cry]

It's lacklusterfrom what I hear, but the Gnomish Artificer prestige class (which can also be taken by humans) fits this concept quite well.

[mucat]

@Mucat: The PF Artificer does not have the specific language to say that it's spells are neither arcane or divine, and as such they default to arcane. Because of the can of worms that opens in a campaign world, I agree it should be treated as such, but that is not the default.
True. I was actually talking about a way of reflavoring the 3.5 artificer, not the Pathfinder one...since it sounded like the 3.5 version was one option Jarred was considering, but it struck him as more magelike than engineery.