More campaign setting help (because I'm lazy)

[Talya]

A couple months ago I posted a thread brainstorming ideas for a campaign setting.

It was going to be an adult-oriented setting (think Game-of-Thrones level of "anything goes" violence and sex), heavy on intrigue and politics, not so combat heavy (though combat will exist and be deadly.)

So here are the basics so far:

The land of Boreala lies far to the north, across a barren frozen desert that separates it from the southern Empire of Vottamar. Despite it's extreme northern lattitude, Boreala is surrounded by oceans, and the currents are able to keep it temperate. Winters in Boreala are harsh, but not overly long, and the spring and fall are usually warm enough for water to stay liquid. The brief summers can even be warm at times. A mountain range along the north of the continent naturally separates Boreala from the wasteland to the south, and only one pass through the mountain is big enough for an army to march through. Sitting at the mouth of that pass is the great southern wall of the city of Bastion.

Bastion's higher altitude keeps it frozen most of the year, except for a brief thaw in the summer months. Despite this, it is the great commercial and financial hub of Boreala. Bastion has also been a city under siege, with the southern wall having faced a slave army from the Vottamar Empire almost every summer for the last 50 years. Still, the Vottamari have never managed to break through the walls, and the many remains of Vottamari slave-soldiers still frozen and unspoiled, decorate the Chill Steppes leading to the wall in the great wasteland to the south.

Despite the fanaticism driving the Vottamar Empire, they are not the most common threat that those adventuring in Boreala will encounter. The walls have stood for centuries against any invader, they will continue to stand, so long as the people of the North defend it. That is where the threat lies.

The people of the north are not homogenous. Humans make up the bulk of the population on the surface, but even they don't get along with each other all the time. The various dales and fiefdoms are constantly teetering on war, held in check only by their common need to defend Bastion. To add to the complexity, a small settlement of aloof snow elves also send a token representation to defend Bastion. Dwarves work under the mountains and the wall itself to keep the stonework solid. Even Drow have been driven north by the Vottamari penchant for racial supremacy and religious intolerance. And the north has always been home to trolls and giants and the usual threats.

Boreala is a Nordic setting. It will be culturally based on Scandinavian and Gaelic themes, with a touch of Slavic mythological influence as well. Additionally, themes common in old Germanic myth and legend will be common here. The Brothers Grimm would feel right at home.

From a violence perspective, honor duels will be common, as well as deadly bandit raids, assassinations, and the occasional outright skirmish.

Sexually, the need to keep warm in the frigid winters has removed most inhibitions from the northern cultures, who treat sexual matters as casually as they treat other bodily functions such as eating. Pair-bonds still exist, with hand-fasting signifying a permanent union.

System used will be pathfinder.

So now, details. There are so many things I need:

A pantheon: Religion will be important here. I'm intending to go with a fairly diverse single pantheon, worshipped by all peoples and races in the north. The focus of any particular group may be on individual deities within the pantheon (perhaps an evil Spider Goddess has made its way into the Pantheon for the drow, for instance), but there will be only one recognized pantheon in the north. It needs to have most concepts covered, as a consequence. Names are a hard part for me, again.

The Vottamari: The Vottamari might be human. Or elves. I'm not sure. I do know that the ruling class is small. Slavery is ubiquitous. Religious tolerance doesn't exist, heretics are killed in horrible ways. (The traditional burning at the stake is probably good.) They are a monotheistic religion, though their god(dess?) exists in Borealan legend as a demon.

Nitpicking details: Important people, fiefdoms, large villages, dangerous forests. Individual plot ideas for intrigue...

You guys usually have a lot of neat ideas here; I can usually find something I want to use when I start a conversation like this.

[Illven]

The Vottamari: The Vottamari might be human. Or elves. I'm not sure. I do know that the ruling class is small. Slavery is ubiquitous. Religious tolerance doesn't exist, heretics are killed in horrible ways. (The traditional burning at the stake is probably good.) They are a monotheistic religion, though their god(dess?) exists in Borealan legend as a demon.


Why not make the ruling class Half-elves? Pelor knows they don't get enough love, and it'd explain their diplomacy bonus as people just assume they are members of the ruling class.

[Talya]

Why not make the ruling class Half-elves? Pelor knows they don't get enough love, and it'd explain their diplomacy bonus as people just assume they are members of the ruling class.

This is pathfinder. Half-Elves are awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[avr]

If the ruling class likes fire enough to burn people, maybe they're Ifrits?

The old Norse pantheon is essentially a couple of dysfunctional families. You could use something like that to organise the concepts. If you're bad with names, referring to the deities by title might work e.g. The Smith, The Bastard, The Dark Mother, etc.

[Callin]

I second the Title for Gods. Makes for a much more Medieval sounding and Darker backdrop for clergy. You could also look to Elder Scrolls for some titles and descriptions. That also can allow for "Custom" mixing and matching of Domains.

Maybe a fluff change to Oreads for the ruling class. Make em more cold based though.

[Ivanhoe]

This sounds like an interesting campaign concept. Also, I like the Game of Thrones-style, including a wall against a constant threat (in this case, vs the South).

Here are some ideas:

A pantheon
Since your campaign seems to be in the North about very diverse people with a lot of violent clashes, I guess you'll need to provide some reasons set deep into their culture why they still work together. A common pantheon would be a good reason.
I could imagine a very simple (for you and the players) pantheon representing the 9 alignments, including 9 people that are commonly associated with these:
Drow - spider queen - chaotic evil
Snow elves - some kind of ice deity - chaotic neutral (are they aloof or to human eyes just plain crazy?)
Wood elves - some kind of forest deity - chaotic good
Hey, that covers already the elves!
Then ...
Dwarves - [insert random dwarven god] - lawful neutral (very traditional)
Giants (and trollkin) - lawful evil
Boreals (a new race to develop, every campaign should carry a new element...) - lawful good (maybe halflings that are some sort of anti-kender - incredibly nice and reliable, and quite rare? :smallwink:)
Then ...
City Humans - neutral (the main population, also of Bastion)
Mountain humans - neutral good (living in nice communities in an alp-like region, highly independent)
Tundra humans - neutral evil (dschenghis khan-like people? Or use the dothraki as an idea?)

The pantheon would ideally be about balancing and tolerating each other, i.e. even the drow would not be racist and religious fanatics, but merely chaotic evil in other ways.
All of these people - and their pantheon - would oppose the vast empire to the South, which is the entire opposite: monotheistic and intolerant.

The Vottomori
The should be human imo, since it fits your description quite nicely. Maybe a human-sacrifice-religion, possibly with a slightly inferior culture to that of the North - but with vastly more military (so it appears only a matter of time until they will engulf the North, since the North only has like 1/100th of the population of the South; and still it would explain why they could not yet conquer. Possibly they are on a high neolithic level like evil Atztec empires, fighting against the typical high medieaval setting in the North with their metal weapons and armour etc.

Another thing to set them apart (including their intolerance) could be that they have no magic and hate the North for it (since there, the usual - up - to - 10th - level D&D magic would be existent). Or, they have some magic focused on god-kings like in the Dark Sun setting, but only divine in nature (whereas the North hast both divine and arcane - or maybe the North has only druidic and arcane, while the South has clerical and psionic).

Basically, everything to show a vast difference between North and South would help.

Nitpicking details
The three "good" aligned people (moutain humans, wood elves and boreals) should be rare, since you apparently want to have more of a dark/violence-based campaign.
The wall idea got me thinking. Maybe it could be done like in Game of thrones, that only convicted criminals are sentenced to life-long service on the wall. The pcs might at the start of the campaign be sentenced to such a service and get scouting tasks from there etc.
A long-running campaign theme could then be that they try to (legally or illegaly) get out of that service which they know will eventually kill them (e.g. there is a giant veteran on the wall believed to be there already 37 years, who nobody dares to talk to, but nobody longer, and maybe the second longest only the commander with e.g. 20 years, a 10th level fighter/barbarian from the mountain range etc.)
Towards mid-end campaign, the pcs may even find out that there are some nice people in the South, or that the South is actually quite civilised while the North is in the thrall of 9 awful demons posing as the pantheon and they were fed propaganda all their lives, with the world being actually much bigger than just North and South etc.

That's about it, maybe I'll get some more ideas later ... good luck with your campaign!

[Talya]

This sounds like an interesting campaign concept. Also, I like the Game of Thrones-style, including a wall against a constant threat (in this case, vs the South).

My most prevalent influences here have been GoT and Skyrim.

A pantheon

Oh damn, alignment. Yeah. I wasn't even thinking of that in relation to the gods yet. I do intend for the gods to represent concepts, rather than really good or evil, though each will lend itself more readily to certain alignment types.


Deities I need (but am not limited to):
War, Honor, Smithing, Stonecrafting, The Seasons (Separately or combined, perhaps), The Elements (separately), Fertility & Childbirth, Farming & Crops, Hunting, Drink and Merrymaking (combined perhaps with hedonistic pleasure), Family (Hearth & Home), Thieving and Sneaking, Wildlife, The Underneath (caves and underground dwellers), Light, Darkness, Magic, Death

Other deity concepts i'm contemplating are nature oriented: The Sky, The Earth, The Sun, The Moon, Rainfall & Storms, Mountains, the Sea, Snow & Ice. Some of these might actually go well combined with other divine portfolios. For instance, the elemental god of air makes a natural sky god.

In fact, many of the concepts above could end up combined together. For instance, if the goddess of Darkness ends up being chaotic neutral, she might get sneaking and thieving (and lies) added to her portfolio.


The Vottomori
The should be human imo, since it fits your description quite nicely. Maybe a human-sacrifice-religion, possibly with a slightly inferior culture to that of the North - but with vastly more military (so it appears only a matter of time until they will engulf the North, since the North only has like 1/100th of the population of the South; and still it would explain why they could not yet conquer. Possibly they are on a high neolithic level like evil Atztec empires, fighting against the typical high medieaval setting in the North with their metal weapons and armour etc.
One thing that has kept the Vottamari from overwhelming the north is their reliance on slave armies. On more than one occasion, after their slave-handlers have been killed, legions have defected to the North. They are motivated by the people driving them with whips and the horrible punishments given for disobedience, but every once in a while a glimmer of hope can shatter the tyrant's hold.

Sentient-sacrifice is definitely used. I think it INCLUDES the race of the ruling class. Their demon-god demands the best, and the slaves make unfit sacrifices.





Nitpicking details
The three "good" aligned people (moutain humans, wood elves and boreals) should be rare, since you apparently want to have more of a dark/violence-based campaign.
The wall idea got me thinking. Maybe it could be done like in Game of thrones, that only convicted criminals are sentenced to life-long service on the wall. The pcs might at the start of the campaign be sentenced to such a service and get scouting tasks from there etc.
A long-running campaign theme could then be that they try to (legally or illegaly) get out of that service which they know will eventually kill them (e.g. there is a giant veteran on the wall believed to be there already 37 years, who nobody dares to talk to, but nobody longer, and maybe the second longest only the commander with e.g. 20 years, a 10th level fighter/barbarian from the mountain range etc.)

Oooh. There's definitely room for some of this. I do think the majority of the defenders serve year-long shifts, loaned to the wall by their individual fiefdoms, but perhaps there is an option for criminals condemned to death to serve the rest of their life on the front-lines of the wall instead.


Towards mid-end campaign, the pcs may even find out that there are some nice people in the South, or that the South is actually quite civilised while the North is in the thrall of 9 awful demons posing as the pantheon and they were fed propaganda all their lives, with the world being actually much bigger than just North and South etc.

The south has lots of nice people. Almost all of them living in slavery. The population of the north has skyrocketed in the last 50 years with refugees.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Talya
Boreala is surrounded by oceans, and the currents are able to keep it temperate. Winters in Boreala are harsh, but not overly long....

Is this what you wish Canada could be like?

:smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Talya
A mountain range along the north of the continent naturally separates Boreala from the wasteland to the south, and only one pass through the mountain is big enough for an army to march through. Sitting at the mouth of that pass is the great southern wall of the city of Bastion.

This sings out for a map. The setting sounds extremely cool, but some aspects of the geography I'm not entirely clear on. How does the frozen desert to the south relate to the oceans surrounding Boreala?


Originally Posted by Ivanhoe
The [Vottamari] should be human imo, since it fits your description quite nicely.

Seconded. Humans do narrow intolerance very, very well.

I also like the notion that even the drow have been driven north and forced into an uneasy, no doubt distasteful alliance with the Boreali. That said, you might include a layer of drow overseers just below the Vottamari overlords. Since the drow have refined self-serving opportunism to a dark art, there may well be a residue of collaborators who threw in their fortune with the Vottamari, preferring the satisfaction of dominating slaves to the cold humiliation of treating with the mongrels and rejects of the Boreali. (Along those lines, you might also look into the Crinti of Damara from the Forgotten Realms.)

Also, the drow are perhaps more accustomed than most other races to the notion of a cruel, capricious divine power that demands bloody sacrifice. The remaining drow collaborators could really make a niche for themselves as accomplished slave-drivers, which would inevitably prompt some of those revolts and defections in forward-operating legions.

[Talya]

This sings out for a map. The setting sounds extremely cool, but some aspects of the geography I'm not entirely clear on. How does the frozen desert to the south relate to the oceans surrounding Boreala?


I had something in mind like this (made in MSPaint in 2 minutes. I've got a copy of some RPG mapmaking software that I can't figure out how to use yet -- when I do I can make a nice looking map.)

http://i42.tinypic.com/2i1ee6t.jpg

[Kol Korran]

Hey there Talya, this sounds like a cool idea. In a previous campaign I had somewhat of a similar concept- The PCs belonged to a versatyle multi race culture, who drew heavily on witch/ spirit/ natural/ voodoo influences. Their strength was diversity, their weakness was an inability to work coherently enough together. They faced a confronting human Empire, who came from a different continent, who was entirely different. It worked like a unified force, driven by strange religious dogma, and the two cultures just couldn't mix well.

Now, I made the cultures more unique by limiting some of the options for each culture. One was obviously race, but I also limited classes- the Islanders (PC's side) used spontaneous like magic users and less practiced martial classes, while the Empire was the opposite, they had the learned magic users, as well as fighters, paladin and more. Some classes were further modified to represent the cultures better.

There were also types of equipment that the different races had access to at the start, such as ships, armor (The Empire had the secret of creating heavy armor and fire arms for exmaple) and so on. You can perhaps make some special mechanics for a side or race (The islanders had "mixed blessings", sort of action points that could work for good or ill, a sort of a "throw of the dice") and so on. You get the idea.

I also put two other foreign cultures who werenew to the area, and had their own secrets (Psionic cat people spice sellers, who delat in information and experiences, and a construct race of artificers and living ships, who sought "the source" or something)

The idea was to make each culture quite different, and it worked quite nicely. In your case there could be some ideas:
- The northern culture could rely on less a formal pantheon then gods, and more on "primal forces" or whatever. Their casters could represent this by limiting them to the witch, oracle, druid, sorcerer for example. While the slave traders could have clerics, inquisitiors, paladinds and such. about martial classes i'm less sure, but you could probably work something out. The slave traders might have cavaliers, and the special resource of... horses and cavalry! (probably as commanders of large slave formations or elite units).

- In my game, the Empire's faith revoled around a concept which they called "The Virtues", which were sort of principals, but also possibly some sort of an outsider (Celestials?) or something such. I made a list of 4-6 main virtues, while they were a lot of others. This served as a "pantheon" for the empire. You might create a religion for the slave traders built on some sort of "god given principles", which force them to either convert people to their empire and way of life ("The one true way" sort of thing) Or be subjugated or terminated.

Did you ever play Star control 2? If so I suggest to think on the lines of the Ur Quan Kohr-ah and Kzer-za. It's one of the most interesting villains I've ever seen in a game. Some ideas for the villains? I suggest go with something big and scary... Some possible ideas- Dragons could be awesome, with enough dragon magic and dragon themed creatures you can have a slew of opponents for many levels. And they make a worthy adversery. Change their story, ecology andhow they work a bit, and make them interesting.

Aboleths might also be a horrific power! They make alien unfathomable machinations, enslaving thousands, seeking... what exactly? Why did they use so much magic to create special tanks to be carried ashore, and vast artificial lake cities where they command their armies from? What do they seek on land, and why do they try to exterminate all? Aboleths work nicely as an image of an Ur Quan, but you can also on the theme of the books and series The Tripods, for a feeling of something utterly alien and incomprehensible.

- I suggest to put some races to whom the relations is anigmatic or ambiguous. For example- The dwellers in the vast desert- they don't fightthe empire, but they also trade with the northern tribes at time. They are often neutral, but they are a mixed bunch, with their own beliefs and honor system (Perhaps fremen like?) I really liked the psionic cat people... :smalltongue: Also there could be some trader race who rtravels the coast and trade and also pirate/ rob all, a fiercely indepent race. (Actually they sound a bit the same :smallannoyed:)

- About Bastion and the joined service. I served in the Israeli which draws it's troops from all over Israel (Mandatory service), and mixing all these people from different locations, backgrounds and such into situations where their lives depend ion each other, living in close proximity for years, and mixing cultures, is one of the strongest unifying forces in Israeli society (which is an immigrant society, so you get a whole lot of mixture of cultures and pressures from all over the world). I know of a few other places with similar conditions, and in the vast majority of cases, this is a unifying force.

So you need something to either keep cultures apart, or the defense of Bastion functioning despite differences. This could be done of course, but it is worth of consideration. The army could form race/ culture based units, but this often leads to bad performance of an army as a whole. I don't know game of thrones well enough, though I've heard it works quite well there? Dunno.

I'm out of ideas for now, too tired. perhaps will write something later. Good luck, sounds great!

[hymer]

May I suggest you have the gods have more than one portfolio each? And not just obviously complimental ones. Wee Jas, as the goddess of death, magic, order and beauty is far more complex and interesting for it (IMO anyway).
As for names, here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_of_Odin)'s a very good resource I often use. A slight rewrite of the names is recommended, but this is a bunch of names/aliases/poetic rewrites of Odin. They fit the Nordic theme, and they will fit each other. I third (or fourth, or however far we've gone) the title advice above, though. Bolverk the Doer of Evil Deeds (god of assassins, thieves and liars - and yet the protector of the Sacred Grove of Something, since hiding it with misdirection is something a liar is good at), and Geirvalda the Spearmistress (goddess of the hunt, lightning and men-at-arms - and marriage, the spear being the phallic symbol it is, wielded interestingly by a goddess).
The gods and goddesses may not all agree, but they're all in the same place, and they all need to postpone Ragnarok for as long as possible.

May I also suggest some dark secret about the Vottamari? Something that has it make sense for them to sacrifice slave armies so often? Maybe the slaves are under some sort of compulsion, which inevitably runs out - so they get sent away to die before this happens. Maybe the deaths are a sacrifice to some evil being, which grows stronger with every slaughter? I dunno, but it's something I'd be wondering about if I were a player, and even a few theories about this striking behaviour would be appreciated.

Nitpicking... Bastion being the trade hub makes a good deal of sense, given it's a place where so many different kinds of people meet. On the other hand, it sounds like there should be someone or something in the great wasteland, which comes to Bastion to trade when there isn't a siege on. Trade hubs are usually on crossroads, on rivers or on ocean shores. Or some other reason why this edge of the inhabited regions is a hub.

Hope some of this was helpful. :smallsmile:

Edit (plots, etc.): If the Vottamari ever pick up shipbuilding as a major thing, Boreala could be in serious trouble. Volcanic eruption or earthquake could make the mountains (temporarily) passable away from Bastion, so preventing things like that could be a (religious?) thing. There may already be small passes, well hidden, and their secrets must be kept.
Networks of alliances are very useful in the volatile political situation. Using the giants or goblins or what-have-you as a common foe to gather some tribes or states, some (un)scrupulous person could be patching together an alliance which will alter the balance of power.
An ancient bloodlinee with very high prestige turns out not to be quite gone after all. Can the claims be proven/disproven? Is the claimant a powerbroker? Impostor? Being used by someone else? All three?
The distant elves have recalled their small force from Bastion, citing unrest on their border (those dang giants). Their neighbours use this as an excuse to do the same, partly to compensate for increased numbers of elven warriors, partly because they prefer to keep expenses down. Unity starts to crumble, as brinkmanship threatens to leave Bastion severely undermanned. Is it possible to make everyone desire to have troops in place? Could a tradition be established that only those with troops in the keep may trade there? Can someone discover (or pretend to discover) that this was once the case?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by hymer
On the other hand, it sounds like there should be someone or something in the great wasteland, which comes to Bastion to trade when there isn't a siege on. Trade hubs are usually on crossroads, on rivers or on ocean shores. Or some other reason why this edge of the inhabited regions is a hub.

This is a very good point here. Bastion is smack in the middle of an impassable mountain range, and conveniently located on the opposite side of the frozen waste from whoever's living further to the south--assuming there's anyone else who isn't Vottamari.

If the southlands are exclusively Vottamari, then there's a real question of who's trading at Bastion and where they're coming from. If this is internal Boreali trade, why are they going through a tight mountain pass to a repeatedly besieged fortress that's out of everyone's way? And if the trade is with other peoples or principalities across the water, why wouldn't that trade naturally flow to a major port city on the northern shores?

[WbtE]

I'm trying to make sense of Vottomar. The slave legions seem great for attacking and subjugating other peoples, but they could hardly work for internal security. At least, dispatching oppressed slave soldiers to put down a revolt of oppressed slaves seems like a lose condition to me. Given that Vottomar exists, it must have some other way of maintaining internal order - and my hunch is that they rely on a more pampered caste of slaves to do that job. This caste could be quite politically powerful (they might even be running Vottomar while the nobility focuses on spiritual matters), but regardless, they would have little interest in running off to Boreala to start a new life when their existing conditions are rather nice.

The mass of down-trodded slaves, on the other hand, would gladly run off to Boreala - if only they knew what it was really like. You haven't described this happening (instead, it's defections from slave armies), which makes me think that Vottomar does a good job of keeping Boreala secret or disguising its real nature. Probably the latter, with the official propaganda having taken such a hold on the ruling layers that they really believe Boreala is a realm of frost demons that must be defeated whatever the cost. Alternatively, the armies besieging Bastion could be a kind of mass execution for slaves who have attempted to free themselves.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by WbtE
Given that Vottomar exists, it must have some other way of maintaining internal order - and my hunch is that they rely on a more pampered caste of slaves to do that job. This caste could be quite politically powerful...but regardless, they would have little interest in running off to Boreala to start a new life when their existing conditions are rather nice.

This would mesh rather nicely with the idea of a caste of renegade drow or Crinti, who prefer collaborating with the Vottamari to life beyond the mountain-walls of Boreala. Given their racial history and proclivities, they'd have quite a practiced hand at controlling and "motivating" slaves of every kind.


Originally Posted by WbtE
...the official propaganda having taken such a hold on the ruling layers that they really believe Boreala is a realm of frost demons that must be defeated whatever the cost.

Probably the Vottamari overlords have a solid idea of what Boreala is like, but I'd expect there to be overwhelming propaganda to the masses. I see Vottamari culture as a police state, thick with minders and informers at every level, managed on a day-to-day basis by the drow/Crinti collaborators.

Just imagine a drow intelligence service with a cadre of evil beguilers at their disposal. Constant internal surveillance, frequent purges and public executions of suspected traitors, all of it designed to keep the population in servitude and at a fever-pitch of hatred at the supposed deadly threat from the icy terrors to the north.

.

[Hangwind]

Ok, my advice is this: DON'T MAKE THE RULING CLASS HUMANS!!! It has been done over and over.

How about you make the ruling class undead? People are sacrificed to the Demon God and he chooses the most vicious and evil among them to come back as undead nobles.

The grand irony is the fact that the leaders are making their own competition, the sacrificed finally gain a measure of security by losing their lives and ability to feel joy or any other happiness (reenforcing their sociopathic tendencies), and the nobles are more enslaved than the actual slaves.

This would make sure that natural selection took care of any weaklings and also explain the armies.

After all, if they die on the wall, they weren't sacrificed to the demon right?

It would also explain multiple armies escaping, since the over-seers would be undead and not want to risk being destroyed.

Also, you could use the culture as a counterpoint to the northern culture. The north is fairly free sexually thanks to their climate. The south would be very restrictive because the nobles (undead) wouldn't want the normal people to freely enjoy something they can't.

Maybe even have slave-breeding programs set up to take any possible pleasure out of making children.

[Talya]

who drew heavily on witch/ spirit/ natural/ voodoo influences. Their strength was diversity, their weakness was an inability to work coherently enough together. They faced a confronting human Empire, who came from a different continent, who was entirely different. It worked like a unified force, driven by strange religious dogma, and the two cultures just couldn't mix well.

Now, I made the cultures more unique by limiting some of the options for each culture. One was obviously race, but I also limited classes- the Islanders (PC's side) used spontaneous like magic users and less practiced martial classes, while the Empire was the opposite, they had the learned magic users, as well as fighters, paladin and more. Some classes were further modified to represent the cultures better.

There were also types of equipment that the different races had access to at the start, such as ships, armor (The Empire had the secret of creating heavy armor and fire arms for exmaple) and so on. You can perhaps make some special mechanics for a side or race (The islanders had "mixed blessings", sort of action points that could work for good or ill, a sort of a "throw of the dice") and so on. You get the idea.

I also put two other foreign cultures who werenew to the area, and had their own secrets (Psionic cat people spice sellers, who delat in information and experiences, and a construct race of artificers and living ships, who sought "the source" or something)

The idea was to make each culture quite different, and it worked quite nicely. In your case there could be some ideas:
- The northern culture could rely on less a formal pantheon then gods, and more on "primal forces" or whatever. Their casters could represent this by limiting them to the witch, oracle, druid, sorcerer for example. While the slave traders could have clerics, inquisitiors, paladinds and such. about martial classes i'm less sure, but you could probably work something out. The slave traders might have cavaliers, and the special resource of... horses and cavalry! (probably as commanders of large slave formations or elite units).

I like this, although I don't want to limit player concepts too much. I think most limitations on classes would be confined to the types of NPCs you'd encounter.


Did you ever play Star control 2?
This was a *fat* game. I was a *happy camper* while *dissolving* *many bubbles* on ships in *the middle.* It was a *happy town.* Sadly, Star Control 3 made me *frumple* because it was made by *silly cows.*



If so I suggest to think on the lines of the Ur Quan Kohr-ah and Kzer-za. It's one of the most interesting villains I've ever seen in a game. Some ideas for the villains? I suggest go with something big and scary... Some possible ideas- Dragons could be awesome, with enough dragon magic and dragon themed creatures you can have a slew of opponents for many levels. And they make a worthy adversery. Change their story, ecology andhow they work a bit, and make them interesting.

Dragons will be ever present. With Skyrim forming a big part of my inspiration for this, I am still thinking of how to work them into the plot and setting in a very important way without being derivative.


- I suggest to put some races to whom the relations is anigmatic or ambiguous. For example- The dwellers in the vast desert- they don't fightthe empire, but they also trade with the northern tribes at time. They are often neutral, but they are a mixed bunch, with their own beliefs and honor system (Perhaps fremen like?) I really liked the psionic cat people... :smalltongue: Also there could be some trader race who rtravels the coast and trade and also pirate/ rob all, a fiercely indepent race. (Actually they sound a bit the same :smallannoyed:)

This is a good idea, and coincides well with this other post:



Nitpicking... Bastion being the trade hub makes a good deal of sense, given it's a place where so many different kinds of people meet. On the other hand, it sounds like there should be someone or something in the great wasteland, which comes to Bastion to trade when there isn't a siege on. Trade hubs are usually on crossroads, on rivers or on ocean shores. Or some other reason why this edge of the inhabited regions is a hub.


Both are good ideas.


May I suggest you have the gods have more than one portfolio each? And not just obviously complimental ones. Wee Jas, as the goddess of death, magic, order and beauty is far more complex and interesting for it (IMO anyway).
As for names, here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_of_Odin)'s a very good resource I often use. A slight rewrite of the names is recommended, but this is a bunch of names/aliases/poetic rewrites of Odin. They fit the Nordic theme, and they will fit each other. I third (or fourth, or however far we've gone) the title advice above, though. Bolverk the Doer of Evil Deeds (god of assassins, thieves and liars - and yet the protector of the Sacred Grove of Something, since hiding it with misdirection is something a liar is good at), and Geirvalda the Spearmistress (goddess of the hunt, lightning and men-at-arms - and marriage, the spear being the phallic symbol it is, wielded interestingly by a goddess).
The gods and goddesses may not all agree, but they're all in the same place, and they all need to postpone Ragnarok for as long as possible.

May I also suggest some dark secret about the Vottamari? Something that has it make sense for them to sacrifice slave armies so often? Maybe the slaves are under some sort of compulsion, which inevitably runs out - so they get sent away to die before this happens. Maybe the deaths are a sacrifice to some evil being, which grows stronger with every slaughter? I dunno, but it's something I'd be wondering about if I were a player, and even a few theories about this striking behaviour would be appreciated.
Both of these I love. However, the thing with the gods gets complicated.

Yes, it makes them more interesting. However, it also makes certain character concepts less appropriate. It would also require a whole lot of thought to make them appropriate.

With that said, I'm in favor of including as many portfolios as make sense under a single deity. But I DO like having LOTS of deity choices, too.


Ok, my advice is this: DON'T MAKE THE RULING CLASS HUMANS!!! It has been done over and over.

How about you make the ruling class undead? People are sacrificed to the Demon God and he chooses the most vicious and evil among them to come back as undead nobles.

The grand irony is the fact that the leaders are making their own competition, the sacrificed finally gain a measure of security by losing their lives and ability to feel joy or any other happiness (reenforcing their sociopathic tendencies), and the nobles are more enslaved than the actual slaves.

This would make sure that natural selection took care of any weaklings and also explain the armies.

After all, if they die on the wall, they weren't sacrificed to the demon right?

It would also explain multiple armies escaping, since the over-seers would be undead and not want to risk being destroyed.

Also, you could use the culture as a counterpoint to the northern culture. The north is fairly free sexually thanks to their climate. The south would be very restrictive because the nobles (undead) wouldn't want the normal people to freely enjoy something they can't.

Maybe even have slave-breeding programs set up to take any possible pleasure out of making children.

Oh man, these are perfect. Without adapting a thing. I love them!

[Hangwind]

On the subject of the pantheon. You seem to be looking for a chimera pantheon with all kinds of different gods working together. Why not call them the Scarred Gods? In order for the demon to have taken over, it would have had to somehow defeat the other gods in the continent. Have the gods each bear a scar from that time as a reminder and unifier.

The priests of the various gods could be required to bear the unique scar that their god has as a sign of who they serve.

Also, while the gods should have alignments, have them not restrict themselves to one particular alignment or race. For instance, while the drow goddess is definitely worshiped more by the drow than others, she wouldn't object to a good aligned worshiper that believes in...preemptive solutions. As long as the philosophies match, the alignments can be different.

I just had the odd image of a LG cleric using inflict in the name of Lolth.:smallamused:

Also, the gods could be the ones working hard at keeping this confederation together because they remember their loss to the demon. The local lordlings would be the ones causing the trouble. Maybe make a plot point of one of your clerics being a "trouble-shooting" priest?

It would fit the Norse setting because the Nordic gods were known for being both good and evil. (Did you know Loki made both Mjölnir and Gungnir?)

[Maginomicon]

Oh damn, alignment. Yeah. I wasn't even thinking of that in relation to the gods yet. I do intend for the gods to represent concepts, rather than really good or evil, though each will lend itself more readily to certain alignment types.You might be able to find a workable methodology in Real Alignments (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283341) that fits this concept. Having gods that follow a particular "path" might fit your pantheon a lot easier than having them follow a standard alignment.

[avr]

Deities I need (but am not limited to):
War, Honor, Smithing, Stonecrafting, The Seasons (Separately or combined, perhaps), The Elements (separately), Fertility & Childbirth, Farming & Crops, Hunting, Drink and Merrymaking (combined perhaps with hedonistic pleasure), Family (Hearth & Home), Thieving and Sneaking, Wildlife, The Underneath (caves and underground dwellers), Light, Darkness, Magic, Death

Other deity concepts i'm contemplating are nature oriented: The Sky, The Earth, The Sun, The Moon, Rainfall & Storms, Mountains, the Sea, Snow & Ice. Some of these might actually go well combined with other divine portfolios. For instance, the elemental god of air makes a natural sky god.

In fact, many of the concepts above could end up combined together. For instance, if the goddess of Darkness ends up being chaotic neutral, she might get sneaking and thieving (and lies) added to her portfolio.
OK, if I were to organise this into the 2 families I suggested I might go with

First family (civilised-ish)
The Smith - patriarch of the family. Smithing, Family (Hearth and Home)
The Dark Mother - his consort. Darkness, the Moon, Death.
The Lady of Beasts - his first daughter. Fertility, Farming, trade & domesticated animals.
The Lady of Lore - his second daughter. Magic, Light, beauty.
The Lady of Battle - his last daughter. War, Honor, Drink and Merrymaking.

Second family (elemental, naturalistic)
The Queen of the Sea - matriarch of the family. Elemental Water, the Seasons, The Sea.
The Sky Father - her consort. Elemental Air, The Sun, The Sky
The Beastlord - her first son. Elemental Earth, Mountains, Wildlife.
The Icelord - her second son. Magic, Snow and Ice, Stonecrafting (glaciers carve stone like nothing else).
The Stormlord - her last son. Storms and Rainfall, War.

And a few more - say his forge fire spoke to the Smith one day and promised riches. He told it to go back to his work. His son was less wise and came back, listened and freed the fire. It killed him and took his body. The Flame now has dominion over Elemental Fire and Undeath.

Before humans came to the North there was a now vanished race who worshipped a deity of Caves and Stonecrafting. There are a few who worship at its shrines hoping for its gifts of concealment to assist with their Thieving and Sneaking. Call it the Blind One.

[Talya]

Okay, here's what I've got so far...



Far, far to the north, beyond the a barren frozen desert plains known as the Chill Steppes, lie the Nordic Lands of Boreala. Despite it's extreme northern lattitude, Boreala is surrounded by oceans, and the currents are able to keep it temperate. Winters in Boreala are harsh, but not overly long, and the spring and fall are usually warm enough for water to stay liquid. The brief summers can even be warm at times. A mountain range along the north of the continent naturally separates Boreala from the frozen wasteland to the south, and only one pass through the mountain is big enough for an army to march through. Sitting at the mouth of that pass is the great southern wall of the city of Bastion.

Bastion's higher altitude keeps it frozen most of the year, except for a brief thaw in the summer months. The largest city in Boreala, it is the great commercial and financial hub of the North. Bastion has also been a city under siege, with the southern wall having faced a slave army from the Vottamar Empire almost every summer for the last 50 years. Still, the Vottamari have never managed to break through the walls, and the many remains of Vottamari slave-soldiers still frozen and unspoiled, decorate the Chill Steppes leading to the wall in the great wasteland to the south.

South beyond the Chill Steppes, the wasteland warms, and thaws, and eventually burns, becoming the great Burning Desert. Far to the southeast of Bastion, beginning where these deserts end, is the vast Empire of Vottamar. The Vottamari are a mysterious nation, little is known of their rulers. Their subjects are part of a rigid caste system, with half the population in outright slavery. The Vottamari are bent on world domination, on wiping out the pagan infidels of the north and spreading their intolerant faith of sentient-sacrifice and slavery throughout the world.

Despite the fanaticism driving the Vottamar Empire, they are not a common threat for most Borealans. The walls have stood for centuries against any invader, they will continue to stand, so long as the people of the North defend it. It is convincing the Nordic peoples to keep working together that is the problem. A lack of unity is where the threat lies. The people of the north are not homogenous. Humans make up the bulk of the population on the surface, but even they don't get along with each other all the time. The various dales and fiefdoms are constantly teetering on the edge war, held in check only by their common need to defend Bastion. To add to the complexity, a small settlement of aloof snow elves also send a token representation to defend Bastion. Dwarves work under the mountains and the wall itself to keep the stonework solid. Even Drow have been driven north by the Vottamari penchant for racial supremacy and religious intolerance. And the north has always been home to trolls and giants and the usual threats.

Boreala is a place of great poetic eddas, where myths are real and the stories of one’s heroism represent immortality in the physical world. Dark forests, ancient and alien fey creatures, trolls, giants, witches, and dragons are there to terrorize the lands. Among civilized and barbarians alike, honor duels are common, bandit raids are deadly, assassinations are a way of life, and the occasional outright skirmish between fiefdoms not outside the realm of possibility. Sexual mores lack the strictness of other places; the need to keep warm in the frigid winters has removed most inhibitions from the northern cultures, who treat sexual matters as casually as they treat other bodily functions such as eating. Pair-bonds still exist, with hand-fasting signifying a permanent union.

Religion in Boreala is as rugged as its people. A single, diverse pantheon is worshipped, representing many philosophies and concepts. This pantheon, known as The Twelve Divines, is broken into two families, as follows.

The Steel King - patriarch of the family. Smithing, Family, Elemental Fire (Hearth and Home)
The Dark Mother - his consort. Darkness, Death, Plots, Trickery, Scheming.
The Lady of Beasts - his first daughter. Fertility, Farming, trade & domesticated animals.
The Lady of Lore - his second daughter. Magic, Light, beauty.
The Lady of Battle - his last daughter. War, Honor, Drink and Merrymaking.
The Demon Prince – his only son. Murder, undeath, slavery, sadism.

The Queen of the Sea - matriarch of the family. Elemental Water, the Moon, The Sea.
The Sky Father - her consort. Elemental Air, The Sun, The Sky, The Seasons
The Beastlord - her first son. Elemental Earth, Mountains, Wildlife.
The Icelord - her second son. Magic, Snow and Ice, Stonecrafting (glaciers carve stone like nothing else).
The Stormlord - her last son. Storms and Rainfall, War.
The Witch – her only daughter. Mysteries, The Fey, Witchcraft, Sensuality

Some say that the Demon Prince bears an uncanny resemblance to the dark god of the Vottamari.

Defenders of the North

Bastion is a civilized place, cold as it is. The Knights of the Wall, an order of paladins comprised of all the peoples of the North, look out for the interests and defense of the city. The arcane magical defenses of the city are handled by the Wizards of the Frozen Tower. The Dwarves of the Delve look after the stonework, and deadly yet simple contrivances such as ensuring that the aquaducts that bring water to the walls defenses don't allow the water to freeze before it's dumped on would-be invaders on the Chill Steppes below. The city guard themselves are some of the best trained fighting men in the world. The "Loathesome Legion," Bastion's terrifying vanguard, is comprised of the worst sort of condemned criminal scum who volunteered to pay their dues in defense of Bastion rather than by the headsman's axe. Their reprieve from death is usually short-lived. Priests of the Twelve Divines bless the defenders constantly, and the vast city north of the wall rarely gives any of it a second thought.

The lands beyond the wall are less civilized. Barbarians, huntsmen, sorcerers, witches, and shamanistic magics make up the majority of the adventuring vocations in Boreala outside of Bastion, as beyond the city, there are fewer institutions to support organized forces and academic pursuits.

Every one of the 37 fiefdoms in Boreala must send defenders to the wall, for a term of four and a half seasons, beginning on Samhain Eve, ending a year and two months later on the Eve of Yule (to give the previous defenders time to help train the new ones), in proportion to their populations. This makes the defenders of the wall one of the most diverse groups ever assembled in one place as a single fighting force. It is a credit to the great training regimen of Bastion's officers that they are able to work together effectively.

[avr]

Glad I was some help!

There has to be some direct benefit in being one of the fiefdoms which sends defenders to the wall, otherwise a group of those furthest away would eventually stop sending people there, or one of the fiefdoms would split apart and leave one half to carry the burden. Maybe there's a share in Bastion's wealth, either directly or by having trading rights there. Maybe something political with the right to call on aid from the other fiefdoms.

[Talya]

Glad I was some help!

There has to be some direct benefit in being one of the fiefdoms which sends defenders to the wall, otherwise a group of those furthest away would eventually stop sending people there, or one of the fiefdoms would split apart and leave one half to carry the burden. Maybe there's a share in Bastion's wealth, either directly or by having trading rights there. Maybe something political with the right to call on aid from the other fiefdoms.

Big help!
I loved your setup for the gods. I renamed one, added two, and shuffled a couple portfolio elements around, (I prefer associating the moon with the Sea (tides), rather than darkness (which the moon illuminates)), but I love the concept.