Soulmelds as class prerequisites

[GhengisConrad]

Alright, so specifically I wanna use the blink shirt to crack into ShadowLord.

I would argue that, given the Soulmeld-Magic Transperency coupled by the fact that RAW "you gain the ability to teleport (as dimension door)"... dimension door is a spell, and now I have its ability. Sounds pretty much like a spell-like ability....

but as an offering to my RAW gods... y'know... I'd love some insight.

[Eldonauran]

or be able to cast dimension door as a spell or spell-like ability.
This is the sticking point. The blink shirt gives you the supernatural ability to teleport, as the spell dimension door. The requirement specifies a "spell" or "spell-like" ability. This is not either, but supernatural. That is the unarguable RAW of the matter.

However, I would allow this as a DM. If you take class levels, or invest in feats (to which this prestige class has many as a requirement), to get this ability, I'dsay you have earned it.

[GhengisConrad]

wait, so it is a supernatural ability? That's confirmed RAW? the way me and mine play... it's really more like an elaborate court battle.

IIRC (AFB), there is a savage species feat that lets you convert supers to spell-likes or the other way around? Or... isn't there some kind of pyramid?...

With few exceptions, if it isn't strictly RAW, it just feels.... dirty.

[Eldonauran]

Well, I am having a hard time tracking down the answer for that. We all know how ... Cleverly the information in the book is listed. However, check out the sample soul born on page 171. The azurin soul born has thunder step boots listed as a supernatural ability.

The duskling totemist on 176-177 has four, great raptor mask, rageclaws, totem avatar and work pelt. All listed as supernatural.

The same with the Rilkan and the Skarn sample builds. Every single one has the (Su) tag at the endof each Soulmeld. Even the essentia pool is listed as a (Su) ability. I'd say its safe to assume soulmelds are supernatural. At least until I can find the exact passage.

[Karnith]

To the best of my knowledge meldshaping/soulmelds are never given a specific ability type as a rule (though they are almost certainly supposed to be Supernatural abilities, given the examples, sample characters, and monsters in the book). This has annoyed people since the book came out.

About the best you're going to get, as far as defining the ability type by RAW, are:
"A soulmeld is a semipermanent magical effect crafted from raw incarnum" (MoI, p. 4)
"When a meldshaper binds a meld to a chakra, it becomes supernaturally tied or affixed to that body location" (p. 5)
"[Soulmelds] resemble both long-lasting spells and magic items in many ways, but are neither" (p. 49)
"... soulmelds enhance the meldshaper’s attributes—often in the form of bonuses on various rolls and checks—and grant him special abilities that might resemble class features and spell-like abilities" (p. 49)
The Soulmeld-Magic Transparency rule (p. 52)
Nowhere in the book could the writers be bothered to just come out and say whether soulmelds are Supernatural, Spell-like, or whatever, of course. It's kinda like Spellcasting in that regard.

[Eldonauran]

***snip***

I've given the entire book a good glance through. You are right, the soulmelds are never flatout listed as supernatural. I payed very close attention to the monster entries where the soulmelds are actually given the supernatural notation (Su). Without exception, every listed Soulmeld had the (Su) attached to it.

This is obviously where I got the idea the soulmelds are supernatural. Even being suppressed in an anti magic field, as supernatural effects are, the soulmelds follow the written rules for supernatural abilities.

[Karnith]

Even being suppressed in an anti magic field, as supernatural effects are, the soulmelds follow the written rules for supernatural abilities.
Except in that they are subject to SR and can be dispelled like magic items, of course.

So, yeah, it's a gap in the rules (unless you want to argue that it's a natural ability, which rarely ends well).

[Eldonauran]

Except in that they are subject to SR and can be dispelled like magic items, of course.

So, yeah, it's a gap in the rules (unless you want to argue that it's a natural ability, which rarely ends well).

Technically, when they get dispelled, they only get suppressed for 1d4 rounds.


Dispel magic and spells of that nature interact with a soulmeld as if the Soulmeld was a magic item. ... If successful, the soulmeld's magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds.

So, you can't counter them or dispel them. They function as supernatural abilities in almost every way.

[Fax Celestis]

Technically, when they get dispelled, they only get suppressed for 1d4 rounds.



So, you can't counter them or dispel them. They function as supernatural abilities in almost every way.

Actually, that means they act identically to a magic item.

[Eldonauran]

Actually, that means they act identically to a magic item.

Hence, "almost every way". Most supernatural abilities are always on and don't need to be shaped. Soulmelds are supernatural abilities that can be suppressed with a dispel magic (or similar effect) like magic items. Lets call them supernatural magic items then?

As abilities go, there is only spell-like, supernatural or extraordinary. Soulmelds only firmly fit into one of those categories.

[Big Fau]

Actually, that means they act identically to a magic item.

Yeah, that's how they were supposed to be. The Devs intended the Bo9S, ToM, and MoI as a testing ground for ideas for 4E, and one of those ideas was removing magic items. Incarnum was the replacement they came up with, so it's effects are more or less magic items (due to their being subject to SR and Dispel).

[Legendxp]

Wait which book are these soulmelds in? I've been researching D&D relentlessly and couldn't find which book it was in.

[OldTrees1]

Wait which book are these soulmelds in? I've been researching D&D relentlessly and couldn't find which book it was in.

Soulmelds are located in the "Magic of Incarnum" book

[Legendxp]

Thanks! :smallbiggrin: I appreciate it! I've been trying to find those forever.