For the first time ever, I am having a murderhobo problem.

[AstralFire]

Never had murderhobo PCs before, really. I mean, occasionally one person might have those tendencies, but the rest of the party kept them in check, so this is new territory for me.

I've recently started DMing for a new group, and I try to keep a mix of encounters going; some social, some combat, some exploration, some investigation, and then a few things that are mostly intended as fluff. Tourism. An interesting bit of the world they can interact with in minor ways.

The Tourism is the problem here. It's been a different combination of players each time, but whenever I try to write interesting quirks and make people feel real, eventually part of the party finds their behavior suspicious.

The Paladin has a bit of a murderhobo thing going on when Evil is detected. He doesn't attack evil people willy-nilly (and I play some ordinary people as pinging evil, Eberron-style), but evil + remotely suspicious is a problem. He's really good about being self-sacrificing in other situations, so I haven't made him fall yet. He was actually a key part of the resistance to what happened last night, thank goodness.

Party's in the frozen tundra, making way for a wintry forest inhabited by an elusive order of druids.

Storm is coming in, so they make their way to a stone beacon (lighthouses for the ground, pretty much) to ask for shelter. Encounter a gnome and a halfling team who run this tower. Before the party can say a word, with the wind ripping branches off of trees (and into their faces, they were starting to hate reflex saves) the duo usher them in.

Both are more than willing to give the party some shelter for now, but warn that if it's a long one, they will expect the party to be out within about 10 or 12 hours, regardless of whether the storm has passed. With that said, they begin cooking some food.

Party argues back, manages to diplo out of them that the duo have given shelter to people before and been robbed or worse in their sleep, with only their extensive array of traps saving them. They have multiple wounds to match with this story. Party continues to plead, the halfling begins to falter, and the halfling and the gnome go back to the kitchen to argue over it.

This is when my party begins to suspect them. Some even think that the two are werewolves and I literally have no clue where the hell that one came from. Paladin detects evil, they're not, is satisfied. Wizard and Rogue decide to investigate upstairs, triggering nearly lethal traps in the stairs and knocking them unconscious. Several of the party members took this as proof that the gnome and halfling were trying to kill the party, secretly.

A fight very nearly broke out until the Paladin literally threw himself in harm's way to protect one of the two, which got approval from me, but for a while there he was the only voice of reason in the party, with another person neutral.

Now, this would have been an interesting encounter, and part of the fun of tabletops is that you can explore things not intended, but they're doing this kind of every time I do anything, and more's to the point, they're not having fun when these detours occur. Several of them have personal plot points that they're trying to pursue; they complain to me about getting sessions repeatedly derailed because half the party is confident that something needs murderin' before they get killed first.

I have no idea what to do save for just chopping out tourism encounters, but I like having the players interact with the world.

[BWR]

Try talking to them.
Just voice your problems and say you aren't alone and ask if the players can be a little less violent.
The players and the DM being on the same page is vital for a good game. If the two sides want different things, one of you will have to give in.

As a side note, there needs to be a sticky along the lines of "Help, my X is a problem" with generic advice which amounts to "try talking to them as rational adults and avoid making IC solutions to OOC problems".

[AstralFire]

Try talking to them.
Just voice your problems and say you aren't alone and ask if the players can be a little less violent.
The players and the DM being on the same page is vital for a good game. If the two sides want different things, one of you will have to give in.

As a side note, there needs to be a sticky along the lines of "Help, my X is a problem" with generic advice which amounts to "try talking to them as rational adults and avoid making IC solutions to OOC problems".

It's actually already been pointed out several times (as in, every session so far) - like I said, when one player *isn't* doing this behavior, the others frequently are, so it's not like I have a single recurring factor here. Things seem to snowball regardless.

[Norin]

Have them attempt to Murderhobo the wrong guy once in a while.
- Someone that outpowers the whole party.
- Someone who has very influential family\connections\etc.

Just let them know that this style of play will not fly and if they keep doing it, they will die. *shrug*

Violence breeds violence. :smallwink:

[Airk]

Have them attempt to Murderhobo the wrong guy once in a while.
- Someone that outpowers the whole party.
- Someone who has very influential family\connections\etc.

Just let them know that this style of play will not fly and if they keep doing it, they will die. *shrug*

Violence breeds violence. :smallwink:

I agree with your premise, but not your methods. Yes, it's great to throw them a scenario where they realize that this might be the wrong way to approach a problem. But "making trouble for them" is the wrong approach.

Did they just kill someone? Ooops. Well, have their young daughter come home from gathering berries and start bawling her eyes out because Dad is dead. Maybe they'll think twice next time.

[Know(Nothing)]

Honestly that sounds like an incredibly tense and fun session.

I would actually go the opposite way from Norrin. Next time they needlessly suspect someone an innocent person, have that someone continue acting "suspicious." Have them be rude, and withhold information. These things aren't evil, but a lot of times PCs think being a jerk and being a villain count as the same thing. If the PCs kill them, reveal that they were fantastically good and nice person, and it's just that the character didn't trust them(which will be pretty reasonable considering their unpredictable and murdery nature). Make the ostensibly good PCs be pursued by good law enforcement. Make them rewrite their alignments. Zap the paladin for associating with evil characters.

Just having them fight someone, especially someone who actually poses a threat, will make them feel justified in what they did. "See, they tried to kill us back! They WERE evil! You can't blame us for thinking so!" Having them obliterate a commoner who was clearly innocent and harmless might actually shake them out of their current mindset.

[Hyena]

Some even think that the two are werewolves and I literally have no clue where the hell that one came from.
Hm. Have your party played Neverwinter Nights?

[AstralFire]

Honestly that sounds like an incredibly tense and fun session.

I would actually go the opposite way from Norrin. Next time they needlessly suspect someone an innocent person, have that someone continue acting "suspicious." Have them be rude, and withhold information. These things aren't evil, but a lot of times PCs think being a jerk and being a villain count as the same thing. If the PCs kill them, reveal that they were fantastically good and nice person, and it's just that the character didn't trust them(which will be pretty reasonable considering their unpredictable and murdery nature). Make the ostensibly good PCs be pursued by good law enforcement. Make them rewrite their alignments. Zap the paladin for associating with evil characters.

Just having them fight someone, especially someone who actually poses a threat, will make them feel justified in what they did. "See, they tried to kill us back! They WERE evil! You can't blame us for thinking so!" Having them obliterate a commoner who was clearly innocent and harmless might actually shake them out of their current mindset.

I was really enjoying it until I started getting the nod that half of my party wanted to kill each other OoC. But it's a little bit repetitive after so many encounters (mostly tourist, but a few social) that ended up with similar tense moments, albeit without that awesomely great ending.

This is pretty much the course I've been taking, so "someone was actually really powerful, rocks fall everyone dies" is tempting, but I guess I should stay the course. Topic as much for venting as anything.


Hm. Have your party played Neverwinter Nights?

Possibly. I never finished the OC. Is there something relevant there?

[Gale]

I suppose you could always flip the tables and have the exact same thing occur to them. Suddenly, they encounter a group of adventurers that don't trust them, start casting detect alignment spells on them, and begin fabricating absurd ideas about who they really are. You may even give the adventurers the upper-hand forcing the players to talk their way out of it. Perhaps they'll then realize they have been acting foolish and stop.

Alternatively, try and treat the game as if it were real life. In reality most people you encounter aren't inherently evil and the concept of accusing every other person of being so if preposterous. If they kill someone have the victim be innocent enough to justify others being outraged over it. They may kill the local merchant suspecting him to be evil and he may very well have been. But he had built up a facade in the town that he was a kind respectable individual and without any proof of his true colors everyone is outraged by his death and wants the players dead.
In real life one cannot simply murder another person without justification and proof or there will be consequences. You may want to try incorporating this into your campaign.

[buttcyst]

you could always have the paladin's faction hand out the task of investigating a string of murders that have been happening recently in the area...

[Raven777]

It seems the problem is not so much murder hobos, when you read between the lines.

The actual problem feels more like a lack of leadership inside the group. It's not the random paranoia and uncalled for assaults that stall the sessions, it's the incessant arguing about what to do and people trying to do their own thing getting others in trouble.

Have you tried telling your players about this? That the sessions would go smoother if they reached consensus over things faster and stopped arguing back and forth? That, maybe, they need someone to call the shots?

Because my party used to act exactly like this. Never got the drop on anything because by the time we were done with arguing, the bad guys were ready for us. Exasperating all quest givers because by the time we were done arguing about whether or not o do something and at what price, the poor NPCs were considering asking someone else. Wasting opportunities left and right because deciding any course always took forever.

Then someday most of us got fed up and decided the Half Ogre Barbarian was our Glorious Leader from now on. Went much better after that. We kept all the murder hobo tendencies, but we became efficient about it.

I guess it may also be an issue of trust between players who haven't played together before needing to adjust to each other's style. With time, as everybody learns the tendencies of others and how they're likely to react to given situations, the party should become a better oiled machine.

[TheIronGolem]

Have you considered the occasional OOC comment along the lines of "guys, seriously, these people aren't going to attack you"?

It's kind of a hack, sure. But it's simple, it'll save you quite a bit of stress, and after a few such incidents your players will likely pick up on your patterns and learn to stop being so suspicious of every NPC who isn't as helpful as they'd like. Think of it as training wheels for your game.

[AstralFire]

Y'know... that is a really good point. Previous groups, a lot of people knew each other to begin with and cohesion shook out pretty quickly. This time not so much. I think you may have hit on something there. Thanks.

[DarkOne-Rob]

Heck, just put them in a dungeon crawl. I know you said you like a variety of encounters, but your players clearly need to let off some steam and just kill things...

Just my take...

[hymer]

It seems to me you are not all on the same page. If the players expect some sort of conflict or obstacle in every encounter, these tourism experiences must be puzzling. They're casting about for a conflict, but there isn't one.
Since you like fluffing your sessions out, maybe have it be part of the social/exploration/investiagtion encounters. Or, well, break the fourth wall and inform them that there is no clonflict intended here. At least until you all start getting on the same page.
I once played a short campaign with a GM, with only a single encounter with some actual conflict in it. I was bored out of my socks.