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RPGaddict28
2013-12-15, 12:34 PM
In my current campaign, someone else decided to play a LG cleric summoner with a paladin cohort. While my party isn't evil, there is a CN murderhobo and my Chaotic Good(Stupid) barbarian. The took offense with the murderhobo when he put the clerics summoned dog out of its misery. Then they pissed off my barbarian after they insulted his best friend, who is a wizard I'm gonna go back to playing, and my barbarian would have killed em in three rounds.

Ultimately, I don't see the pally sticking around very long and unless the cleric has a change of heart, she won't either, but I don't wanna discourage the player from playing. What do I do?

Also, my wizard managed to make them blow 1900 GP, by using the sendings very freely, then having a 1000 GP info fee.

TriForce
2013-12-15, 12:42 PM
In my current campaign, someone else decided to play a LG cleric summoner with a paladin cohort. While my party isn't evil, there is a CN murderhobo and my Chaotic Good(Stupid) barbarian. The took offense with the murderhobo when he put the clerics summoned dog out of its misery. Then they pissed off my barbarian after they insulted his best friend, who is a wizard I'm gonna go back to playing, and my barbarian would have killed em in three rounds.

Ultimately, I don't see the pally sticking around very long and unless the cleric has a change of heart, she won't either, but I don't wanna discourage the player from playing. What do I do?

Also, my wizard managed to make them blow 1900 GP, by using the sendings very freely, then having a 1000 GP info fee.

quick question: how can a "murderhobo" be chaotic neutral?

a LG alignment is a guideline, not a rule. any alignment can be friends with someone from any other alignment, since not every evil character is a murderer, and not every LG person is a annoying stick in the mud.

if nothing else, you might want to remind the cleric player of the above, besides wich, the paladin cohort is under the control of the DM, not a player

Airk
2013-12-15, 12:55 PM
quick question: how can a "murderhobo" be chaotic neutral?

Yah. Murder is evil by definition.

Pex
2013-12-15, 02:05 PM
Players have to choose to get along by their own fiat. You control your character's actions. The lawful good character does not get sanctimonious against the other party members. The other party members don't do things they know will p-off the lawful good character.

Kalmageddon
2013-12-15, 02:11 PM
Are you the DM or a player?

RPGaddict28
2013-12-15, 02:54 PM
Are you the DM or a player?

I'm a player, although either advice will be nice, as I'm gonna DM a campaign with a paladin.

Zanos
2013-12-15, 02:58 PM
quick question: how can a "murderhobo" be chaotic neutral?
Murderhobo is just a joke term for a typical adventurer persona. Typically adventurers will have no home and move frequently form place to place("hobo") and make a living off of killing monsters they find and taking their stuff ("murder").

Summoned creatures don't actually die when they're killed, summoning is weird like that. Putting it's out of it's misery would just send it back where it came from.

Why were they insulting your wizard friend?

Typical when people have issues with Paladins/Clerics it's because they take their code/dogma far too seriously. If you're having an issue with the Paladins code, you should probably remind him that tyrannical enforcing your worldview on everyone with force is Lawful Evil. I'm not sure if that's the issue here, though.

RPGaddict28
2013-12-15, 03:07 PM
Murderhobo is just a joke term for a typical adventurer persona. Typically adventurers will have no home and move frequently form place to place("hobo") and make a living off of killing monsters they find and taking their stuff ("murder").

Summoned creatures don't actually die when they're killed, summoning is weird like that. Putting it's out of it's misery would just send it back where it came from.

Why were they insulting your wizard friend?

Typical when people have issues with Paladins/Clerics it's because they take their code/dogma far too seriously. If you're having an issue with the Paladins code, you should probably remind him that tyrannical enforcing your worldview on everyone with force is Lawful Evil. I'm not sure if that's the issue here, though.

Well, first off, the wizard is my other character, I just wanted to mess around with a thogaturge( http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049 and they were insulting him because they thought he was really evil, and just using the barbarian, Mrawr. Mrawr really likes my wizard, so he was getting mad, and they asked for Mrawr to show his magic, he does, nearly kills the pally, then he gets a calmed emotion, and was gonna kill them both, if he wasn't fatigued.

And yeah, your point about their tyranny may help.

Oh and I forgot, the pally is a GMPC

Kelb_Panthera
2013-12-15, 03:08 PM
Murderhobo isn't a literal term. It basically means itinerant mercenary. Murderhobo just has a more entertaining ring to it.

As for the topic at hand, the player with the paladin is being a dink. Call him/her on it. Paladins don't have to be sanctimonious sticks in the mud any more than rogues have to be amoral kleptomaniacs.

If they say, "it's what the character would do/say," do me a personal favor and slap the taste out of their mouth. That's an excuse and it's utter BS. The player controls the character and if the character is being a dink it's actually the player being a dink.

Just noticed the gmpc note. Replace each instance of player with DM in the text above. The DM is a player too but some people make excessive distinction there. Also DMPC is code for fancy NPC. If he's being excessively dinkish, gank his shiny metal ass just like you would a merchant that cheated you or an uppity town guard.

Kalmageddon
2013-12-15, 03:31 PM
I'm a player, although either advice will be nice, as I'm gonna DM a campaign with a paladin.

Well then, for the future setting up the campaign tone is helpful, so that each player can choose an appropriate character.
For the situation at hand... Well, your character is under your control, if you want to let the other players have fun just let them, what's the problem?

Scow2
2013-12-15, 03:32 PM
Oh and I forgot, the pally is a GMPCKILL IT WITH FIRE!

Slipperychicken
2013-12-15, 03:40 PM
KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Yeah. GMPCs tend to be bad. Paladins tend to be bad. Mixing the two with a murderhobo party is just a recipe for disaster.


Also, why would they kill the dog?

Kalmageddon
2013-12-15, 03:41 PM
KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Come on, there's no need for that.
Stabbing should be enough.

Slipperychicken
2013-12-15, 03:42 PM
Come on, there's no need for that.
Stabbing should be enough.

Also, Paladins have good saves. If it's a fire spell, they should be able to resist it.

Cirrylius
2013-12-15, 03:51 PM
Summoned creatures don't actually die when they're killed, summoning is weird like that. Putting it's out of it's misery would just send it back where it came from.
It doesn't actually have to die, for reals. If my conjured unicorn got pumped full of poison lava and was going to spend remaining ten rounds of the spell's duration lying on the ground writhing in agony, killing it and sending it back to where it came from still puts it out of its misery.

veti
2013-12-15, 04:28 PM
I've been in that party. It doesn't actually have to be bad.

First off, characters aren't omniscient. Just because they're in your party, doesn't mean they see or know everything you do. Even if they're physically in the same room with you 24/7 (which I for one would strongly advise against), there'll be times when they're just not looking. You can do stuff literally behind their backs.

Oh sure, they'll find out sometimes, but they'll never catch you in an instant-butchery offence because - well, you're not evil, so presumably you're not doing those sorts of things anyway.

Second, a party is not just a set of bilateral relationships. There's a whole team dynamic to look for. If the DM has introduced a paladin, then s/he is trying to force something on the whole party. That could go either way: (1) you could do what s/he (probably) wants, and spend more time on the campaign rails - or (2) alternatively, you could decide "screw that, if that's LG then we're having no part of it", get rid of the paladin, and turn more chaotic and, optionally, evil.

If the DM is trying to railroad you into being more LG, I suggest a few timely hints to the effect that (2) is also a viable outcome if s/he presses you too hard. Don't be intimidated by the paladin; if it steps out of line, threaten it, just as you'd threaten any random fighter or rogue who insulted your friends or tried to thwart your intentions.

And pick your time, make sure the rest of the party will back you up. There's a whole political dimension here, and you may have to play popularity games for a while.

It's all part of the fun that is D&D. It's not just about player-on-mook violence, player interactivity is important too.

Sith_Happens
2013-12-15, 05:37 PM
I don't think "GMPC" is really an accurate term to apply to a cohort, even if the DM is technically supposed to be controlling them.

RPGaddict28
2013-12-15, 09:59 PM
I don't think "GMPC" is really an accurate term to apply to a cohort, even if the DM is technically supposed to be controlling them.

I'm not actually sure if it follows leadership rules or not. I think it may be an equal level pally.

Renegade Paladin
2013-12-15, 10:05 PM
Also, my wizard managed to make them blow 1900 GP, by using the sendings very freely, then having a 1000 GP info fee.
And they paid it? That's called fraud, and they really shouldn't have. :smalltongue:

SassyQuatch
2013-12-15, 10:17 PM
I'm going to catch some flak for this, but... GMPCs are fine. Unless you have a terrible DM who trirs to make Mary Sue characters who are somehow essential to the plot.

As for the topic, behave in character. If the CG character gets in the way you jist abandon jim and carry on on your own way. If that fails and he follows you around creatong problems you gank him, or for fun leave him to the mercy of the entire group of enemies you just encountered.

Airk
2013-12-15, 10:34 PM
I'm going to catch some flak for this, but... GMPCs are fine. Unless you have a terrible DM who tries to make Mary Sue characters who are somehow essential to the plot.

That's pretty much what 'GMPC' means these days. If it's not obnoxious, it's just an NPC.

SassyQuatch
2013-12-15, 10:58 PM
That's pretty much what 'GMPC' means these days. If it's not obnoxious, it's just an NPC.
Dang kids and their facy talk. Them words were ours first.

The Fury
2013-12-16, 11:32 PM
So would saying "Mary Sue GMPC" be redundant in the same way as "ATM machine?"


Dang kids and their facy talk. Them words were ours first.

Eh... Dangnabbit! Kids these days with their War of Worldcraft, an' somesuch! Why, back in my day...

Slipperychicken
2013-12-17, 07:58 AM
So would saying "Mary Sue GMPC" be redundant in the same way as "ATM machine?"


GMPCs aren't always mary sues.

If an character is adventuring with the PCs for an extended period, and is controlled by the GM, then I would call it a GMPC.



Eh... Dangnabbit! Kids these days with their War of Worldcraft, an' somesuch! Why, back in my day...

Back in the day, when men were men and women were -4 strength, if you wanted to kill a dragon, you went out an' friggin DID it. In real life too, none of this vidya-game nonsense! You had ta walk fifteen miles though a whole dungeon packed shoulder-to-shoulder full of bloodthirsty monsters, uphill both ways. And tough noogies if you forgot a cart. I once forgot a cart and had to pull the whole haul back on a mat made of blood-soaked monster skins held together by bones! And you don't see me complaining either! I tell you, we got some exercise in those days...

TriForce
2013-12-17, 11:21 PM
Well, first off, the wizard is my other character, I just wanted to mess around with a thogaturge( http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049 and they were insulting him because they thought he was really evil, and just using the barbarian, Mrawr. Mrawr really likes my wizard, so he was getting mad, and they asked for Mrawr to show his magic, he does, nearly kills the pally, then he gets a calmed emotion, and was gonna kill them both, if he wasn't fatigued.

And yeah, your point about their tyranny may help.

Oh and I forgot, the pally is a GMPC

i might be confused here, but they tought you were evil, and insulted you because of that, and your responce to it was nearly killing them? and if you werent fatigued you would have actually killed them? if thats the full story, they might be right.

while paladins and lawful good characters might be annoying for any other type of character, it takes both sides to get along. they need to loosen up, you need to earn their respect instead of proving them right