Need help with a psionic gish

[zeek0]

Hello all, I'm planning out my first character with PrCs involved, and I need some specific help.

I am planning out a psionic gish sort of character, more for entertainment than for quality. I want an Elocutor-like character, but I know that Elocutor is sub-optimal and not what I am looking for anyway (I do plan on dipping a level for scorn earth). Another PrC I am looking into is Anarchic Initiate.

Most people seem to say that Wilder is a better base class for Gishes because of the 3/4 BAB and hit die bonus

The Problem: I find myself in love with the spells that are only provided by the Nomad(Psychoportation) Discipline Powers. They seem a lot of fun.

What is the best way to allow myself access to the Nomad powers without sacrificing power? My first thought is Psion 1/Wilder 4/ Anarchic Initiate X/Elocutor X.

[Darksword]

Well technically a wilder can learn discipline powers. Check out here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm). You would have your wilder research and devolve the power. It does have an exp cost. But it might be the best choice.
There is also psychic chiurgery. But finding the person who knows it and can implant the wanted power could be problem.
Expanded knowledge is another great choice but it has a lower max power and is cost a feat.
Also if you want only some of powers from the discipline check if there is a mantle that can do it and take the Mantle Wilder AFC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a)

[zeek0]

Thanks, I appreciate the help!

[Feint's End]

Play a Psywar and take the ACF Mantled Warrior at second level. You get access to teleport, fly etc + the amazing Dimension Hop power. Also the bonus feats make entrance into Elocator easier. This build is obviously focused more on fighting than manifesting.

If you want to go funky you could combine the whole thing with Tashalatora and Intuitive Attack to be wisdom based so you have some decent manifesting on top of you normal build.

More specifically. What kind of gysh do you want? Bab 16+ and 9ths? Or just some fighter with power support.

edit: best is you just tell me the image you have in your head. I personally am a big psionic fan and have build several mobile gyshs.

[zeek0]

The image I have in my head:
-Highly mobile
-teleportation
-perhaps some sneak attacks?
-I really enjoy these from the nomad discipline: dimension swap, teleport trigger
-utility gained from psionic powers
-most damage is from melee attacks, but maybe not all

Thanks a lot all

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Gish build should always strive for two things: 9th level spells/powers by 20th level, and +16 BAB by 20th level. All things, including class features, are secondary to that since most class features could instead be mimicked by power/spells.

Wilder is actually one of the worst gish choices due to how few powers known they get, and the fact that you can only afford to lose two levels of manifesting to still get 9ths pre-epic.

Psion and the Erudite variant are the most common choice, due to their superior choices in powers. They get plenty of powers known, and access to discipline powers by default.

Ardent from Complete Psionic is also a popular choice for many reasons. Due to the mechanics of when it gains access to the next higher level of powers, the feat Practiced Manifester will actually make up for loss of lefels of manifesting. Its selection of powers is extremely limited, but you can often get round that with Substitute Powers (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a). Add on 3/4 BAB and it ends up being better than Wilder.

For prestige classes, you want manifesting progression and BAB above all else. That usually means including nine or ten levels of Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) (Illithid Slayer in XPH), and six levels of Sanctified Mind from Lords of Madness wouldn't be a bad choice. Abjurant Champion in Complete Mage has a built-in recommendation to adapt it to a psionic prestige class, so that's another excellent choice. Again, just about any class features you would be able to obtain from another prestige class can be duplicated with a power, spell, or item. The loss of BAB or manifesting that you would suffer for taking a non-gish prestige class [i]cannot[i] be made up for via powers, items, or other means short of retraining out of that prestige class.

Anarchic Initiate is better for a dedicated manifester. The loss of BAB and lack of class features that would help you fight makes it a poor choice for a gish. Elocater isn't used much because it has no synergy. It requires Spring Attack, which you'll almost never use as you want to be full attacking, so you waste three feats to qualify for it. The benefits are extremely mediocre, so if you want to go this route maybe replace it with a psionic adaptation of Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) instead. Psion 6/ Swiftblade 9/ Abjurant Champion 5 would be fairly standard.

[zeek0]

Awesome help, thanks for that long response. I'll look into all of that!

[Rubik]

A Gish build should always strive for two things: 9th level spells/powers by 20th level, and +16 BAB by 20th level.Actually, what gishes should strive for is effectiveness. Pure psychic warriors gain none of those things, and yet they're some of the best gishes in the entire game, at least tying with clerics for martial prowess (and that's saying something). This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2926.msg97988#msg97988), for instance, is incredibly potent for an ECL 12 martial character, and would only get more so as it gains in levels, and it certainly doesn't need full BAB or 9ths for that, since psychic warrior powers scale incredibly well through the mid-to-upper levels.

Also see The King of Smack. (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/910286)

[zeek0]

I appreciate all the comments, thanks. It really does help. If anyone else has some help or tips for a high-mobility psionic character, then please let me know!

[DownwardSpiral]

So, there's an alternate psionic class called the psionic rogue. It's like the psychic warriror, except less warrior, and more rogue.

the complete writeup is here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b

pros:
nice mobility powers
all the work is pretty much done, dont need to dip a whole bunch.
minor sneak attack

cons:
3/4ths bab
maxs out at 5th level powers.