Pathfinder: Setting Seriousness

[TheZoobler]

Just out of curiosity, how serious is the setting of Pathfinder? The rules sound appealing :) and the design sounds solid. However, some things I read about it make it sound like it's just as serious/high fantasy as DnD, other things I read about it make it sound more goofy, or pulp fantasy.

One of the things that has attracted me to DnD the most is how the setting is played pretty seriously as high-ish fantasy, with only a few anachronisms and only a little "goofiness". That's just talking the core books: not themed rule supplements. Some things about Pathfinder seem like they might just take me out of the experience. Like they belong more in a Warcraft/Warhammer type of setting than a 100% serious fantasy campaign. Hard to describe this vague sensation I'm getting from it.

Long-winded point is this: Does Pathfinder take itself and its setting seriously? Or does it tend to be more pulpy and goofy? Veeery curious to pick up the core rulebook :) but not sure about some of its elements.

Yes yes, I know the strictness of the setting depends mostly on the DM themself: I'm just focusing on the fluff text and lore of the Pathfinder setting core.

EDIT: Here's a good example. I've seen it said that Pathfinder contains a god/race of demons that are straight up references to Hellraiser, a Godzilla-reference creature in Bestiary 4, Cthulhu and creatures from the Mythos are in the setting, ogres are described as incestious hillbillies... doesn't it all get a little too pop-culture referency?

[Greenish]

Inner Sea World Guide, at the very least, makes it appear seriously serious. All the iconics (except Alain) have fairly angst-filled backstories, too. Dead parents, evil cultist, parental abandonment/abuse, the usual works.

[Bhaakon]

Yes.

Golarion is a kitchen sink setting, as such it runs the gamut from high fantasy to low(ish) fantasy, to tongue-in cheek pulp, depending on which region you play in.

[Alleran]

Fairly serious, but it depends on where you look.

The setting is essentially a group of different fantasy-esque settings stuck together (e.g. up in the north, you have Vikings next to Slavic Russia next to Ice Age tribes next to demons everywhere), but that was the point, IIRC, so that they could put any style of adventure into the world that they wanted.

There are pulp fantasy elements, though. Pulp sci-fi elements as well, for that matter, and a fair few of them (e.g. Akiton, one of the planets, is very similar to Mars in the John Carter books, right down to red-skinned humans and four-armed green barbarian hordes, while Castrovel is similar to Venus from other pulp sci-fi).

It also has a lot of Lovecraftian horror elements dropped in here and there, including straight-up using Outer Gods (Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, etc.) among the deities.

[Faily]

Golarion is as serious as Mystara. :smallbiggrin:

For info, Mystara started out as just the "generic" world for many published adventures and modules. There was hardly any communication between the writers of these modules, so there's many types of "let's just throw in all we can here".

It's certainly an interesting enough setting to try out (Golarion) at one point, and considering the large world, you're sure to find some spot on the map that suits your playstyle and campaign.


And on the plus-side, there's no Elminster, Mystra, Seven Sisters or Drizz't. Win. :smalltongue:

[TheZoobler]

Hmm. Guess I'll just ignore the silly stuff or pop culture references if I get into it. Thanks for the heads up :) and the advice. Would probably stick to the most high fantasy setting continent/setting I could find, myself, haha. Until I need a change-up :).

As for angst, angst makes me take things less seriously if it's overplayed lol. But angst has its place too :), every now and then haha.

[WbtE]

I hope that the core D&D books are not serious. There are far too many silly things in there (especially among the weapons and armour). :smallbiggrin:

[Spore]

Not knowing Golarion at all, I think most of the PF core books are standard emotionless copies of 3.5 stuff. Paladins devote themselves to their causes, barbarians eat your face off and new stuff like Alchemists fit in nicely while being serious. There are silly sidebooks (e.g. Goblins of Golarion), creepy sidebooks, serious sidebooks and so on.

As much as I hate overdoing seriousness, as much do I hate wacky over the top sillyness. P&P is the genre to play a moddy gritty hero that has been left for dead after having lost the family in a fire, but like normal people, this character wouldn't cry every day to everyone how hard his life is/was.

[Drachasor]

I find it a bit hard to take Galorian seriously. Sure, it tends to take itself seriously, but I don't see how all those different nations can actually coexist right next to each other. To say nothing of the space robots and other things.

[Bhaakon]

I find it a bit hard to take Galorian seriously. Sure, it tends to take itself seriously, but I don't see how all those different nations can actually coexist right next to each other. To say nothing of the space robots and other things.

That's because it's not a cohesive setting, it's a collection of a dozen or so smaller, somewhat self-contained settings that happen to be on the same planet.

If you're looking for elegant and cohesive design, it's a mess. If you're looking for broadest possible appeal (which is really what Paizo wants from its flagship setting--just like WotC and Forgotten Realms), then the kitchen sink approach is the only one to take.

[Drachasor]

That's because it's not a cohesive setting, it's a collection of a dozen or so smaller, somewhat self-contained settings that happen to be on the same planet.

If you're looking for elegant and cohesive design, it's a mess. If you're looking for broadest possible appeal (which is really what Paizo wants from its flagship setting--just like WotC and Forgotten Realms), then the kitchen sink approach is the only one to take.

They could have taken a little more time into having it make sense while still maintaining a kitchen sink, imho.

[Squirrel_Dude]

I don't know if it's a serious setting as much as it is predisposed for serious adventuring.

[Alleran]

And on the plus-side, there's no Elminster, Mystra, Seven Sisters or Drizz't. Win. :smalltongue:
A benefit of keeping their fiction line relatively contained and small-scale for the most part.

There do exist powerful good-aligned NPCs of a sort, but they're generally limited to specific areas. For example, until Mythic Realms and Bestiary 4 came out, the most powerful published creature in the setting was Astarathian, a CR 27 Great Wyrm Gold Dragon who spends his time living in Nidal, shapechanged into a human form and quietly bringing help to the citizenry as a grocer who sells his stuff at lower prices than others (although he does rarely take on his true form against big enough threats and send them packing).

Considering that the Great Old One Mhar is only about CR 27, Tar-Baphon the Whispering Tyrant is CR 26, and Cthulhu himself is CR 30, Astarathian is almost certainly one of the top ten most powerful creatures on the face of the planet (possibly top five).

[Drachasor]

A benefit of keeping their fiction line relatively contained and small-scale for the most part.

There do exist powerful good-aligned NPCs of a sort, but they're generally limited to specific areas. For example, until Mythic Realms and Bestiary 4 came out, the most powerful published creature in the setting was Astarathian, a CR 27 Great Wyrm Gold Dragon who spends his time living in Nidal, shapechanged into a human form and quietly bringing help to the citizenry as a grocer who sells his stuff at lower prices than others (although he does rarely take on his true form against big enough threats and send them packing).

Considering that the Great Old One Mhar is only about CR 27, Tar-Baphon the Whispering Tyrant is CR 26, and Cthulhu himself is CR 30, Astarathian is almost certainly one of the top ten most powerful creatures on the face of the planet (possibly top five).

Yeah, but that sort of containment doesn't really make a lot of sense given the D&D alignment system (or even ignoring it, honestly). For good characters, "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" is heavily implied. A guy that mostly/only sticks to his home and helps out those he knows there...that's neutral. Especially given some of the really, really, really evil stuff going on, being one of the most powerful good characters and just sitting back and selling groceries is not really believable.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Yeah, but that sort of containment doesn't really make a lot of sense given the D&D alignment system (or even ignoring it, honestly). For good characters, "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" is heavily implied. A guy that mostly/only sticks to his home and helps out those he knows there...that's neutral. Especially given some of the really, really, really evil stuff going on, being one of the most powerful good characters and just sitting back and selling groceries is not really believable.If I also remember correctly, he's also trying to create a utopian society, and force the evolution of his humanoid discipiles/inhabitants through enlightenment, order, and goodness.

Also, Gold Dragons aren't quite as proactive as Silver Dragons when it comes to the fight against Evil. Silver's are the Paladin's of the group, after all.

[Drachasor]

If I also remember correctly, he's also trying to create a utopian society, and force the evolution of his humanoid discipiles/inhabitants through enlightenment, order, and goodness.

Also, Gold Dragons aren't quite as proactive as Silver Dragons when it comes to the fight against Evil. Silver's are the Paladin's of the group, after all.

Eh, that doesn't seem to be what the bestiary says.

Also, GOOD characters make sacrifices for others. What's this gold dragon sacrificing exactly, given his vast power? Seems more neutral to me, rather like a certain gold dragon of Hermea.

[Alleran]

If I also remember correctly, he's also trying to create a utopian society, and force the evolution of his humanoid discipiles/inhabitants through enlightenment, order, and goodness.
That's Mengkare. Mengkare and Astarathian are Great Wyrm Golds (although Mengkare is referenced as "Ancient" in some places), and the next-most powerful dragon down from them is Daralathyxl, a CR 26 Great Wyrm Red who's currently living in an old dwarven kingdom (Five Kings Mountains).

[ArqArturo]

Goblins are serious business in Golarion :smallbiggrin:.

[TheZoobler]

I find it a bit hard to take Galorian seriously. Sure, it tends to take itself seriously, but I don't see how all those different nations can actually coexist right next to each other. To say nothing of the space robots and other things.

Now see, this is the nagging sensation I was getting. While it's present in DnD too, for some reason it gets to me more, reading about PF lol. BUT:


...the most powerful published creature in the setting was Astarathian, a CR 27 Great Wyrm Gold Dragon who spends his time living in Nidal, shapechanged into a human form and quietly bringing help to the citizenry as a grocer who sells his stuff at lower prices than others (although he does rarely take on his true form against big enough threats and send them packing).

Oh my god. That is incredible and I don't care if it IS 1% silly. That dragon rocks. Lol.

[Big Fau]

Goblins are serious business in Golarion :smallbiggrin:.

I really hate PF's goblins. Their gnomes aren't much better either, at least as far as what I've heard (Racial Slur...).

At least 3.5's goblins managed to distance themselves from MtG's goblins.

[Slipperychicken]

The silly stuff is there (there are stats for the Jabberwocky), but you're free to pass it up if you'd like a more serious game.

Or if you really look at spell components/foci, they're usually puns. It's a ripoff from 3.5, so those are still the same. Like you have a pair of nuts for a confusion spell, or a stick of butter for Grease, a feather for Hideous Laughter (a fairly silly spell in itself), or a copper piece for detect thoughts. But nobody cares about spell components, so you're free to ignore it too :smalltongue:

[Kudaku]

It's easy to run a "serious" game in Pathfinder, you just need to pick the country that fits the theme and feel you're going for. For instance Cheliax, Nidal or Ustalav are not particularly lighthearted countries.

However if your campaign starts off with the Licktoad tribe, odds are your players may be pulling the occasional joke...

[Craft (Cheese)]

Depends On The Writer. One writer likes drawn out torture scenes and maximum angst. Another writer likes enemies who dress in silly outfits sing in adorable little rhymes. If you're in a part of the world they collaborated on, god help you.

[Vanitas]

I really hate PF's goblins.

We be goblins, you be food.

[ArqArturo]

Depends On The Writer. One writer likes drawn out torture scenes and maximum angst. Another writer likes enemies who dress in silly outfits sing in adorable little rhymes. If you're in a part of the world they collaborated on, god help you.

Why not both? Seriously, combining both for a horror campaign is a really good idea.

[Craft (Cheese)]

I guess it could be kinda scary in the same way certain depictions of the joker are scary, if you did it right. It'd probably just turn out like the pathfinder comics though.

(Ever read those? Never read those. The art is vomit-inducing and the writing is worse.)

[ArqArturo]

I have only heard they exist, but honestly, the only rpg-comic I've read was Exalted, and that was... Interesting.

4e also had (or had) a comic, but meh.