Gestalt 2e

[Erock]

Could Gestalt characters work in Second Edition? If so, how?

[Talakeal]

Aren't the default 2E rules for multi classing almost identical to 3E gestalt?

Just remove the restrictions on which races are allowed to multi class and which class combinations are allowed and you should be golden.

[MeeposFire]

Could Gestalt characters work in Second Edition? If so, how?

Yes it is called multiclassing. Traditionally it is non-human only though it would destroy the game to remove that restriction (humans dual class which is slightly different).

Multiclassing in 2e involves having 2-3 classes that you progress at the same time. XP is divided evenly between the classes so if you were a fighter/mage and you gain 100XP 50 go to fighter and 50 go to the mage. With proficiencies you get to use the better progression of either and you use the better of the two classes saving throws and THAC0. HP is rolled normally for each class, then they are each divided by the number of classes that you have, and then added together. A level one fighter mage with 10 con at first level (assuming max rolls) (10/2)+(4/2)= 5+2=7 total HP.


As for balance they are very close to being in the same level of effectiveness as the single classed characters. Due to how XP in the game work they tend to be one to 2 levels behind single class characters until you get to about 12th level or so in each class and then the disparity increases. Multiclass characters tend to give up single class power (though only slightly) for versatility and it is usually a good trade though not a mandatory one.

Do not that since each class has its own XP table it means that each class could have a different number of levels. For example at 161,000XP (total) a fighter mage may be a level 7 fighter and a level 8 mage with the abilities of both.

[Thrudd]

Multiclass wizards can't cast spells in armor, except for elves in elven chain. Specialist wizards can't multiclass, except for gnome illusionist/fighter or illusionist/thief. Multiclass thieves can only use detect noise and open locks if they are wearing armor not normally allowed to thieves. Multi clerics must still abide by their deity's weapon restrictions, so normally bludgeoning weapons only.
Humans can't multiclass but half-elves can, and they have the greatest selection of multiclass possibilities with no level limits. This was the whole reason someone would want to be a half-elf in AD&D.

[hamlet]

Half-elves most certainly do have level limits in AD&D, actually.

[Rhynn]

Half-elves most certainly do have level limits in AD&D, actually.

I believe (AFB) that they're unlimited on Bard, which can't be used in multiclass combinations anyway, but otherwise they do indeed have level limits (I forget where they're higher or lower than elves).

[ngilop]

uhm.. 3rd Edition geltalt is the same thing multiclassing was in 2nd ed. well except in 2nd ed you split your total EXP amongts your 2 ( or 3) classes

so you were anywhere from 1 to 4 levels behind (4 in the case of tri-classed people)


it was not such a big deal in 2nd ed to be 16/16/16 Fighter/cleric/wizard when you had a 20 cleric a 20th fighter and a 18 rogue/wizard.

unlike in 3rd when multiclassing for a few levels really puts you behind ( why mytsic theurge is considered a bad PrC you end up being what 5 levels behind in both?) the versatility in 2nd ed more than made up for the loss of pure power.

and yes Half elves were unlimited as bards.. which can be muliclassed actually.

[MeeposFire]

uhm.. 3rd Edition geltalt is the same thing multiclassing was in 2nd ed. well except in 2nd ed you split your total EXP amongts your 2 ( or 3) classes

so you were anywhere from 1 to 4 levels behind (4 in the case of tri-classed people)


it was not such a big deal in 2nd ed to be 16/16/16 Fighter/cleric/wizard when you had a 20 cleric a 20th fighter and a 18 rogue/wizard.

unlike in 3rd when multiclassing for a few levels really puts you behind ( why mytsic theurge is considered a bad PrC you end up being what 5 levels behind in both?) the versatility in 2nd ed more than made up for the loss of pure power.

and yes Half elves were unlimited as bards.. which can be muliclassed actually.

I follow your point in general but for the sake of comparison at the same XP of 3,000,000.

Level 20 fighter

Level 18 mage (9th level spells)

Level 17/14 Rogue/mage (7th level spells)

12/12/12 (level 6 spells)

It actually gets worse as you level where the XP changes become static. From experience the added versatility back then was very helpful and teh need to keep up caster levels are not as needed in 2e as it is in 3e. So in general I agree with you but I cannot say that there isn't a noticeable drop at higher levels. Your triple class loses 8 levels of fighter to the single you will notice especially in HP.

[Rhynn]

Level 18 mage (9th level spells)

Level 17/14 Rogue/mage (7th level spells)

Also, unless you're using some very generous ability score generation, you're far from guaranteed to have the INT to ever cast the highest-level spells.