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macdaddy
2013-12-16, 09:46 AM
What is the better swiftblade chasis?

Elf Focused Specialist Transmuter 6 / Swiftblade 9 / Abjurant Champ 5[
S: 14, D: 16, C: 12, I: 18, W: 13, Chr: 10
Feats (Martial Wizard)
Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Extend Spell, Improved Toughness (+1hp/level, get back the Con loss)

Pro: Lots of transmutation spells (nerveskitter, wraithstrike, haste, heart of xxx) with still access to helpful conjuration/abjuration/illusion spells (mage armor, Gr Mage Armor, shield, DDoor, mirror image, greater mirror image, etc).

Con: LOW hit points (~34 at 7th level), reliant on spells for armor, tumble is CC until swiftblade

Or

Humand Bard 7 / Swiftblade 9/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abj Champ 2
S: 14, D: 14, C: 14, I: 13, W: 10, Chr: 18
Dodge, Mobility, Power attack, Melodic Casting
[Note: Give up suggestion for Song of the heart (+1 inspire courage)]

Pro: inspire courage(+3 with swift inspiration boost), can wear armor. Tons of skill points (8/level) in good skills (Balance, tumble, UMD). Can take savage bard to help fortitude saves, can wear chain shirt to reduce dispel magic vulnerability.

Con: Low # of spells, limited spells, NO DRAGON FIRE INSPIRATION IS ALLOWED because its broken, slightly better hps (~41 at 7th level); No entry until 8th level.

Fouredged Sword
2013-12-16, 10:09 AM
Your first Chasis is better, but I would make a suggestion.

I really like

Fire Elf
Spellthief 1 / Trasmuter 5 / Swiftblade 10 / Abjurant Champ 4

Feats
Dodge, Master Spellthief, Mobility, Power Attack, Extend Spell, craven.

Ok, false life is what you use to counter the HP loss, or just kick out a con booster, really HP taking is hard, and you should be using miss chances rather than counting on taking a hit.

Master spellthief adds casting in light armor and higher caster level all in one feat. Craven adds +level damage every time you sneak attack, so duck into a flanking position and hit them. Sneak attack also gives you a great caster denial, as you can trade 1d6 damage for stealing a spell. Even if you can't then cast it, you can burn it with abjurant champion 4 for short term bonuses. +9 to saves is a great way to make opponents forced to fight with your high AC and miss chance.

You will get more use out of timestop at 16th level than you will from CL=BAB at 20th. Master spellthief will be keeping you are CL=HD, as you only take arcane casting classes.

Another good option to look into is Fairy Mystery initiate. Using Int to determine HP is great for a grey or fire elf.

claypigeons
2013-12-16, 10:18 AM
Minor Shapeshift is better than Improved Toughness.

Imp. Toughness gives 20 hp. Minor Shapeshift gives your HD as temporary hp as a swift action. All you need is Polymorph prepared.

Eldariel
2013-12-16, 10:31 AM
Sword: Losing yet another level of casting seems highly inadvisable. The advantages of Master Spellthief are really quite minor anyways; it doesn't allow you to store higher level spells so meh.

@OP: First build is honestly solid. Conjurer could work too if you can lose the bonus slots somehow (e.g. Rapid Summoning ACF [SRD]); Abrupt Jaunt [PHBII] is just that nice. But either works.

You get higher level slots for Innervating Speed/Time Stop (depending on whether you go Swiftblade 9 or Swiftblade 10) and better actions to use with that stuff in general. You also get bigger stuff than Dragonfire Inspiration if damage is what you want; Shapechange for starters.

MirddinEmris
2013-12-16, 10:42 AM
If you've taken Dodge and Mobility, you can think about getting Elusive Target feat - protection against a Power Attak will do you much more good in terms of your hp, than Imp Toughness. Also nice in flanking situations.

Boost yout hp with items.

Fouredged Sword
2013-12-16, 10:44 AM
Well, you are likely rocking greater luminous armor anyway, so wearing armor isn't great anyway.

macdaddy
2013-12-16, 04:09 PM
I hadn't seen elusive target. That would be a cool feat, have to wait a while to get the required +6 BaB though.

Why wouldn't the bard option be "better" as it would buff the rest of the party by +3 hit/+3 dmg as well as myself?

Wizard: +4BaB, +2 Str, +2 sword == +8 to hit, +5 to dmg (wielded 2 handed)

Bard: +5Bab, +2 Str, +2 sword, +3 song = +12 to hit, +8 dmg (wielded 2 handed)

The wizard definitely gets the better defensive buffs (false life, heart of stone, fist of stone, etc).

Update
I can enter Lyric Thamateurge at 5th level (per DM). So, If I do that, it would be Bard 4, LT 3, then swiftblade. This would give me a spell secret of 1st and 2nd level (shield(?) and wraithstrike) as well as a bonus 1st and 2nd level spell slot (5 1st, 4 2nd, 1 3rd). That makes it a better entry, but is it enough?

DarkSonic1337
2013-12-16, 04:41 PM
Few things will beat the wizard entry.

You've got higher level spells, spell slots on par with a sorcerer entry (with focused specialist), access to as many spells as you can get in your spellbook, it's just REALLY GOOD.

You're gonna need combat casting for adjurant champion.

If you can spare one more feat (and get rid of improved toughness), grab endurance and persistent spell. Take spelldancer 1 and use perform dance checks to persist spells 0_o. http://aaronwiki.us/index.php?title=Spelldancer
Spelldancer's prereqs of Dodge, Mobility, Combat Casting, and Endurance just line up nicely with an swiftblade/abjurant champ

Eldariel
2013-12-16, 04:54 PM
I hadn't seen elusive target. That would be a cool feat, have to wait a while to get the required +6 BaB though.

Why wouldn't the bard option be "better" as it would buff the rest of the party by +3 hit/+3 dmg as well as myself?

You can throw around Greater Magic Weapons (lasts all day, everyone gets +5 weapons eventually once you take Practiced Spellcaster and some caster level boosters), Heroisms (long-term, lasts basically all day so a convenient way of replacing some of the morale bonuses once you have extra slots), Polymorphs (or Polymorph Any Object or such later), Hastes (yeah, Bards get it too but much cheaper for a Wizard to Quicken it), Superior Resistances, Greater Blinks, Mind Blanks, etc. around and give everyone cool stuff.

The advantage Wizard has over Bard is that he gets more, better and higher level spells. They obviously give both him and the party more strategic versatility too; Teleportation, Scrying, etc. He also gives both wider numeric advantages and straight-up immunities and such. Party can provide him with Pearls of Power for spells they want so he can do his stuff while still providing them with buffs (and of course, low level slots can be used exclusively for buffing since they aren't gonna do much else and some buffs lasts 10 min or hour/level so all day.