But Wait... Two DMs?!?

[HC Rainbow]

So, After trying to start up a new campaign in my lonely town I followed an ad online of a veteran dungeonmaster and his sister (weird) looking to find more players, While I originally had myself and two others who needed a party, things got out of hand and after meeting with this dungeon master we "accidentally" acquired a handful of other players in about an hour.

I was the Dungeon Master for almost Every Single Quest in my last group of individuals and the ones before that. He is also a Dungeon Master, and has been for quite a long time.

Facts:
We have 10 PC's ready to go.
We have 2 Dungeon Masters.
We have plenty of room for the PC's.

Problem: With so many PC's, The game will run slowly and be less enjoyable.

Solution: Both Dungeonmasters will run the game at the same time. I as a DM am excellent at dungeon designing, plot designing, and the combat rules of the game. He as a DM is excellent at story telling and the minor details of cities and dungeons.

We'd make an excellent couple to DM as, Agree on everything rule wise and have all of that laid out, and there are countless benefits to having DMs.

(Benefits would include if the party splits up the DMs can split up, I can draw out rooms while he describes them, and I can assist in combat for the new players and roll while he speaks).

Question: Is this a bad idea? Has anyone ever had two DM's at the same time before?

[Stux]

I've heard about it being done successfully. As long as you are both reasonable people and you are careful not to step on each other's toes then it might just be crazy enough to work!

I think the key is to clearly define what is each DM's responsibility, whether it's "I'll run the combats, you do the dialogues..." and so on, or just "I'll do today's session/this chunk of game, you do the next bit", just make sure that at any given time you know explicitly and exactly who is responsible for what. Because if you end up talking over or contradicting each other then you are doomed!

[Deox]

Work together to build two separate, but connected stories.

DM A runs PCs 1-5, DM B runs PCs 6-10.

Have the actions the first group does affect the second group and vice versa.

For instance, rivaling countries each wish to extract and gather secrets from one another. Each group happens to be the hired goons for their respective country.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Have you considered simply splitting into two groups?

[Flickerdart]

Have you considered simply splitting into two groups?

Don't you know - you never split the party! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waa2ucfgVgQ)

[HC Rainbow]

I've heard about it being done successfully. As long as you are both reasonable people and you are careful not to step on each other's toes then it might just be crazy enough to work!

I think the key is to clearly define what is each DM's responsibility, whether it's "I'll run the combats, you do the dialogues..." and so on, or just "I'll do today's session/this chunk of game, you do the next bit", just make sure that at any given time you know explicitly and exactly who is responsible for what. Because if you end up talking over or contradicting each other then you are doomed!

We're pretty set on what each DM's responsibility is, Before any quests we plan on who is going to run which NPC's Dialogue if there is more than one in a room, Aka I would speak as the king, He would speak as the royal advisor, just to add a sort of additional belief, rather than one DM voicing Everyone.

I'm the Combat Whiz, and will do the numbers and work through combat, He is entirely vocals. Good advice though, will make sure to avoid fighting with him on anything mid game.


Work together to build two separate, but connected stories.

DM A runs PCs 1-5, DM B runs PCs 6-10.

Have the actions the first group does affect the second group and vice versa.

For instance, rivaling countries each wish to extract and gather secrets from one another. Each group happens to be the hired goons for their respective country.

Sounds crazy enough to be super fun, May impliment that into a later quest of sorts. Purposefully split the party via some crazy wizard or something.


Have you considered simply splitting into two groups?

Considered it, Most of the players only have Sundays free, and by most I mean all but two. Cant run a two player party and an 8 player party, that would make little sense in my mind.

[buttcyst]

I have been toying with the 2 DM idea for some time now, clear cut roles "in game" would be absolutely necessary to avoid any conflict or confusion. If your styles compliment each other, which they seem to do in you opinion, then it should run fairly smooth. It may take a few session to figure what "style" the 2 of you will adapt. Just like any other good DnD game, once the flow begins, it all comes naturally. Keep posted to let us know how it goes and how you go about it :)

[HC Rainbow]

I have been toying with the 2 DM idea for some time now, clear cut roles "in game" would be absolutely necessary to avoid any conflict or confusion. If your styles compliment each other, which they seem to do in you opinion, then it should run fairly smooth. It may take a few session to figure what "style" the 2 of you will adapt. Just like any other good DnD game, once the flow begins, it all comes naturally. Keep posted to let us know how it goes and how you go about it :)

Will do Cyst.

As a DM I struggle most with filling random rooms with anything but cabinets or shelves, which gets so boring to the players after a good while. While He as a Dm is excellent at filling in nonsense and voicing NPCs. He is also an excellent note taker, I am not.

However, I have all of the books we're using memorized, know each class almost by heart, understand the combat mechanics completely, and am an excellent cartographer, whereas he is not.

I'll be the one running the combat, He will run the story.

So far he and I have been discussing the economy of the continent, how its run, the government, the cities, the main plot, the initial quest, and he and I are very flexible. We've both noticed multiple encounters whereas He would think of something I wouldnt, and I the same. Its been an excellent experience just designing the first quest with him. He gets to build the things he loves, I get to build the things I love.

We'll know once we get this first quest rolling just how well this works. I'll be sure to let everyone here know how it went, whether on this post or with a new one depending on how far away this first quest is. we're hoping for the weekend.

[OldTrees1]

2 DMs that cooperate are better than the sum of their parts.
2 DMs that don't cooperate "spoil the broth".

I have tried 1DM, 1 Assistant DM/DMPC & 4PCs. It worked well due to our complementing skills (Mechanics/Balance/Encounters & Flavor/World/Story.


1 thing to remember:
There will be improvisation. The better the DMs understand each other's plans the better they will be able to improvise when unexpected story concerns arise in combat or unexpected combat arises inside a story event.

[killem2]

Have you considered simply splitting into two groups?

No need.

I've dm'd alone groups of 8, with 14 moving parts. (familiars/companions, dual characters ect)

It's not hard.

[HC Rainbow]

No need.

I've dm'd alone groups of 8, with 14 moving parts. (familiars/companions, dual characters ect)

It's not hard.

Did you do anything special to make combat not take a decade for every full round?

[Subaru Kujo]

We have like, 3 DMs in one of my current games (not sure if I am going to join in later on). Each one takes a series of levels.

So it fairly easily can be done.

[HC Rainbow]

We have like, 3 DMs in one of my current games (not sure if I am going to join in later on). Each one takes a series of levels.

So it fairly easily can be done.

Well I know switching off who plays DM for the day is easy enough, but what I'm talking about is at the same exact time. We would both be the active DM for the day, and each have roles we have to play. I'm sure it's do-able, I'm just trying to figure out what to avoid, Which based on previous comments I have realized to just make sure we each know our part and we should be able to avoid any conflicts.

[Dr. Cliché]

I have to say, it's a very interesting concept.


I'm the Combat Whiz, and will do the numbers and work through combat, He is entirely vocals. Good advice though, will make sure to avoid fighting with him on anything mid game.

Just a thought, but might it be a good idea if, during boss battles or the like, he handled some or all of the minions, whilst you handle the boss and any high-level henchmen.

I suggest this simply because may boss monsters end up with a lot of abilities - so being able to concentrate purely on using them as effectively as possible (as opposed to concentrating on all the minions as well) might be helpful.

It would also create the amusing idea that, if the boss wants his minions to act differently (or try a specific tactic), he'll have to actually say it to them (with you conveying the message to the other DM). :smallwink:

[HC Rainbow]

I have to say, it's a very interesting concept.



Just a thought, but might it be a good idea if, during boss battles or the like, he handled some or all of the minions, whilst you handle the boss and any high-level henchmen.

I suggest this simply because may boss monsters end up with a lot of abilities - so being able to concentrate purely on using them as effectively as possible (as opposed to concentrating on all the minions as well) might be helpful.

It would also create the amusing idea that, if the boss wants his minions to act differently (or try a specific tactic), he'll have to actually say it to them (with you conveying the message to the other DM). :smallwink:

That is a fantastic idea, This is why I love the giants.

Most likely I would be the one in charge of the Big baddies and special henchmen, I have a very predictable habit of almost any and all boss encounters I personally designed by hand. It helps me know exactly what the boss is capable of and I can build them to the fear and excitement of my characters. They have no fear for hydras, but if I send them a lich they almost always look for an escape route, its quite funny.

but Yes I do like that idea a lot, especially the concept of the big boss having to verbally announce to the minions to surround the cleric, or to distract the warrior.

Bravo. Looking for more feedback like this would be stellar.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another good thing to do is have one DM moving ahead of the turn and getting actions for other party members lined up. It helps if the wizard KNOWS he is going to shoot a fireball to have a DM available to preroll his actions. That way, the main DM can focus on controlling the monsters and recording the current events, while the second DM wrangles the players to keep everyone on task and focused.

It shortens each round considerably if the round consists of I do X, my roll is X, and my damage/effect is X, all in one breath. I did a d20 modern mecha game with 12 players and 1 DM. Prerolling was strictly enforced, and combat rolled right along.

NOTE, it will be important to break up initiative. If 10 players get to act in quick succession without monsters getting an action in to respond, then not much will survive.

[Benthesquid]

I Co-DMed with a friend before. It definitely has advantages, although we weren't running such a large group. I will say that ten players is still an awful lot, just in terms of getting through a combat round (especially if you increase the number of enemies to balance the players big action-economy advantage). This would definitely be a time to restrict summons, hirelings, etc.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another thing to have a DM do is preroll for monsters. I had a die roller, and made an excel sheet for actions. I would record the rolls for various monsters ahead of combat, so I rolled 20 or so attacks with modifiers added in for a standard attack. I was honest and kept it random, but I did all the legwork ahead of time. This allowed me to preroll predictable actions, so I could avoid rolling the first 5 breath attacks of a dragon, or the first 10 attacks from an orc. I would keep the various actions in order by type, and simply went down the list, adding temporary modifiers like charging or flanking.

It REALLY cuts down the DM time required when 20 orcs attack the party.

[Subaru Kujo]

Well I know switching off who plays DM for the day is easy enough, but what I'm talking about is at the same exact time. We would both be the active DM for the day, and each have roles we have to play. I'm sure it's do-able, I'm just trying to figure out what to avoid, Which based on previous comments I have realized to just make sure we each know our part and we should be able to avoid any conflicts.

That should be even easier, actually. One controls rule disputes and player questions, one controls story.

[HC Rainbow]

I Co-DMed with a friend before. It definitely has advantages, although we weren't running such a large group. I will say that ten players is still an awful lot, just in terms of getting through a combat round (especially if you increase the number of enemies to balance the players big action-economy advantage). This would definitely be a time to restrict summons, hirelings, etc.

Excellent point. No Summons, Hirelings, I'd still Have to allow Familiars and animal companions, lets just hope its not an all dudu party.


Another good thing to do is have one DM moving ahead of the turn and getting actions for other party members lined up. It helps if the wizard KNOWS he is going to shoot a fireball to have a DM available to preroll his actions. That way, the main DM can focus on controlling the monsters and recording the current events, while the second DM wrangles the players to keep everyone on task and focused.

It shortens each round considerably if the round consists of I do X, my roll is X, and my damage/effect is X, all in one breath. I did a d20 modern mecha game with 12 players and 1 DM. Prerolling was strictly enforced, and combat rolled right along.

NOTE, it will be important to break up initiative. If 10 players get to act in quick succession without monsters getting an action in to respond, then not much will survive.

Agreed, Since I'm the one in charge of Combat i'll have him go around and make sure players know what theyre going to do, I'll work with the current guy and he'll work with the next in line.


Another thing to have a DM do is preroll for monsters. I had a die roller, and made an excel sheet for actions. I would record the rolls for various monsters ahead of combat, so I rolled 20 or so attacks with modifiers added in for a standard attack. I was honest and kept it random, but I did all the legwork ahead of time. This allowed me to preroll predictable actions, so I could avoid rolling the first 5 breath attacks of a dragon, or the first 10 attacks from an orc. I would keep the various actions in order by type, and simply went down the list, adding temporary modifiers like charging or flanking.

It REALLY cuts down the DM time required when 20 orcs attack the party.

Also excellent advice. I'll be sure to put an excel sheet per type of monster and have 40 or so rolls, 20 if its only one monster of that type, but a room of orcs is gonna eat that 40 up pretty fast. I'll see how it all goes and play it by ear. Thanks for the great advice!!

You guys are all Awesome!

[Fouredged Sword]

One could even do a hit/miss area on the spreadsheet that calculated how much modifier would be needed to hit each character. 10 columns for 10 characters that compares the random roll to the characters normal AC. That way you can just glance at the sheet and think "This roll has a +2 attack bonus from charging, will that hit character Y" without having to do any math or ask for an AC. You just say "The orc misses" or "The orc hits, take X damage". It frees your mind up do colorful descriptions and flavor text.

You can even set it up to adjust to the party buffs on the fly, just reference the cell back to a AC cell at the top of the row.

I would then break each monster type onto a page of the sheet for easy reference.

[HC Rainbow]

One could even do a hit/miss area on the spreadsheet that calculated how much modifier would be needed to hit each character. 10 columns for 10 characters that compares the random roll to the characters normal AC. That way you can just glance at the sheet and think "This roll has a +2 attack bonus from charging, will that hit character Y" without having to do any math or ask for an AC. You just say "The orc misses" or "The orc hits, take X damage". It frees your mind up do colorful descriptions and flavor text.

You can even set it up to adjust to the party buffs on the fly, just reference the cell back to a AC cell at the top of the row.

I would then break each monster type onto a page of the sheet for easy reference.

Extreme Character Prep, I usually do things like this anyways in regards to characters skill checks so using their AC in there too wouldnt be that hard. That or I could put the spreadsheet on my phone and make something that adds or removes buffs, highlight a box and it adjusts the AC accordingly, and always have that flashy orc number sitting right there for my usage.

[Fouredged Sword]

Prep is the key to large groups. Be ready for things ahead of time, and make sure the group is ready for the things they need done as well. If everyone knows the game well and works to move things along, it can go well. If players want to be unfocused and can't follow the game, then you have a pizza party, not a game night.

[Kuulvheysoon]

So, After trying to start up a new campaign in my lonely town I followed an ad online of a veteran dungeonmaster and his sister (weird) looking to find more players, While I originally had myself and two others who needed a party, things got out of hand and after meeting with this dungeon master we "accidentally" acquired a handful of other players in about an hour.

Question: Is this a bad idea? Has anyone ever had two DM's at the same time before?

I played for years with my sister before I moved away.

And as others have said, as long as you know where lines are, you should be alright.

[HC Rainbow]

I played for years with my sister before I moved away.

And as others have said, as long as you know where lines are, you should be alright.

I only found it weird because hes 30 and lives with his sister. thats just me.

But awesome. I'm sure its gonna be great. we did more brainstorming for a surely epic first quest. This sunday we're meeting up, building all the characters and running a tutorial quest with everyone.