Ganking TrapSmith

[GhengisConrad]

A neat little class with fairly easy requirements, and, most important of all, Dimension Door as a 2nd level spell. Really cool, exactly what I've been looking for.

Except... I hate the class features. I hate them I hate them I hate them.

Is there any precedent for a class completely ganking another classes spell list? Or even an "Advanced Learning (Ex)" being able to take a transmutation spell?

A prestige class with a very favorable BAB could work here too.

BAB is an issue on my build now. We don't use fractional.

[Fouredged Sword]

Chameleon steals all the spell lists. You loose some BAB though. Really, you only need 3rd level spells to steal the whole trapsmith list, so you could stop at 4th level and only loose 1 point of BAB.

Pick the arcane focus every day, and you get a floating feat and a floating +2 to a stat for your troubles.

[GhengisConrad]

Sorry. Should have mentioned, playing a halfling. And at anyrate I need the DimDoor to get into shadow lord.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, there is a debate about the feat Extra Spell. It may do what you want, by adding DD from the trapsmith list to another casting class, or it may not.

[Fax Celestis]

You could try Warmage using the Eclectic Learning ACF from PHB-II. You'll get DimDoor as a 3rd level spell instead of a 2nd that way, but it's still two levels early.

[GhengisConrad]

PHB II pg. 67 under 'Eclectic Learning'

"The spell must be a sorcerer/wizard spell" would negate that, no? I'd be happy to find out that it does not...

[Fax Celestis]

PHB II pg. 67 under 'Eclectic Learning'

"The spell must be a sorcerer/wizard spell" would negate that, no? I'd be happy to find out that it does not...

It is a sorcerer/wizard spell. You're just taking it from the trapsmith list.

Marginal rules interpretations aside, I was about to suggest the flee the scene warlock invocation, but it is a lesser invocation and is therefore available as early as 6th. This is a level earlier than a wizard entry (7th) or sorcerer entry (8th), but as it is technically not dimension door as an SLA but rather an SLA that mimics dimension door with a combination of major image, with worse range.

You can use dimension door as a spell-like ability, although the range is limited to short (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels). When you use this ability, you leave behind a major image of yourself in your place that lasts for 1 round. The image reacts appropriately to attacks as if you were concentrating on it.

[GhengisConrad]

seems pretty clear and legit to me "You can use dimension door as a
spell-like ability".

Gets you straight into Shadow Lord!

Huzzah!

[Piggy Knowles]

Another option is the Lesser Mark of Passage. It's a human specific Dragonmark, but there was a WotC article on Dragonmarks and reincarnation stating that if a member of a dragonmarked race reincarnates, they can manifest the mark of their original race (but not the new one). So if you play a halfling that was originally a human of the proper house before being reincarnated into a halfling body, you can pick up DimDoor for two feats.

[GhengisConrad]

Another option is the Lesser Mark of Passage. It's a human specific Dragonmark, but there was a WotC article on Dragonmarks and reincarnation stating that if a member of a dragonmarked race reincarnates, they can manifest the mark of their original race (but not the new one). So if you play a halfling that was originally a human of the proper house before being reincarnated into a halfling body, you can pick up DimDoor for two feats.

how controversial do you think this would be? Sounds like a stretch.. but I like it!

[Fax Celestis]

It is also, unfortunately, 1/day, barring additional feat expenditure.

[GhengisConrad]

1/day is fine.

Would applying the human mark to a halfling be so controversial?

I tried asking that question here already

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320097

didn't get much of a reply...

Warlock is freakin' awesome, but takes too many levels to get the thing. Unless there is a way to get lesser incarnations... faster....

I've got alot of thinking to do.

[Fax Celestis]

It would be totally out of theme with Eberron, but if you're playing somewhere else it wouldn't be any mechanical issue.

[GhengisConrad]

[...] it wouldn't be any mechanical issue.

so.. it would be RAW legal in the strictest technical sense?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20051024a

I mean... druids intentionally reincarnating people isn't the only way to get reincarnated... right?

[Fax Celestis]

so.. it would be RAW legal in the strictest technical sense?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20051024a

I mean... druids intentionally reincarnating people isn't the only way to get reincarnated... right?

The only way via RAW, but there are others.

[Callin]

Why not just spend a feat for Shape Soulmeld Blink Shirt?

[GhengisConrad]

Why not just spend a feat for Shape Soulmeld Blink Shirt?

Because Blink Shirt is a (Su) and I need to be able to cast as a spell or (Sp)

[Sith_Happens]

Why not just spend a feat for Shape Soulmeld Blink Shirt?

Because Blink Shirt DDoor is (Su), and Shadowlord needs it as a spell or SLA.

EDIT: Shadowpounced.

[Callin]

My bad. Thought it was the other

[Nihilarian]

If you go the dragonmark route, you can gain more uses per day with Dragonmark Heir (Eberron Campaign Setting) or Blade of Orien (Dragonmarked). I'll also note that there's a handbook for Dragonmarks (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1072.0).

[Piggy Knowles]

As a DM, I wouldn't have a problem with a player who wanted to play a reincarnated member of a Dragonmarked house, as long as they actually RP'd the situation and didn't just shove it under the table. Dragonmarks have a ton of good flavor, and I would hate to see them go to waste as "oh, hey, I took a feat for an SLA and I'm going to ignore everything else about it."

I would honestly have a harder time reconciling Telflammar Shadowlord's regional pre-req with the Eberron-specific Dragonmarked house requirement than I would with the reincarnation aspect. (Not an insurmountable problem - but it would exist.)

That said, I'm sure someone has pointed this out to you already, but have you looked into Crinti Shadow Marauder? It doesn't have the same DimDoor requirement as Telflammar Shadowlord.

[Prime32]

If trapsmith has lv1 abjuration spells on its list, enter abjurant champion.