Teaching an old duskblade new tricks.

[MrUberGr]

So, after the untimely demise of my wizard, I'll be starting out a duskblade from level 5.

1- What races are there that offer a bonus feat upon starting other than human? I know about the strongheart halfling and whisper gnome, but I don't feel like playing those.

2- Is there any possible (legal) way for a duskblade to use spells out of his spell list (which I feel is very small)? Specifically I'd love magic jar from necromancy. Didn't have the chance to get it on my wizard.

3- Do his spell slots increase in any way? INT modifier etc?

4- Also, I cannot decide about my weapons. Since I was a blaster (no... don't.. ouch! :smallredface:) I dealt alot of the damage in the party. Now, I'm not sure what weapon to use.
greatsword: 2d6, 19-20 x2
glaive: 1d10 x3
guisarme: 2d4 x3 with an auto trip attempt if you get to hit the other guy. (does it work like this?)
or some shield-one handed combo?


5- Last but not least. A duskblade casts up to 5th level spells, meaning that he does not need more than 15 INT. How do you suggest I use my points, (32 point buy), before racial modifiers?

Also, I got some questions concerning the class itself.

Quick Cast: Beginning at 5th level, you can cast one spell each day as a swift action, so long as the casting time of the spell is 1 standard action or less.
Quick Cast: Does casting a spell in this manner provoke an attack of opportunity?


Arcane Channeling (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, you can use a standard action to cast any touch spell you know and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.
Arcane Channeling: If you cast a spell in the morning, and then attack someone at night, will the spell still be active?
If you fail the attack is the spell lost or no?

[Xaotiq1]

Take this. It's dangerous to go alone.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=525

[Vhaidara]

On Arcane Channeling: the action of Arcane Channeling actually is casting the spell and attacking. So no, you cannot hold the charge, because you are required to deliver the spell in the action you cast it.

[MrUberGr]

Take this. It's dangerous to go alone.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=525

Hehe, ofcourse. I'm following the "latest (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.gr/2011/08/duskblade-handbook.html)" version. But there aren't answers to these questions there.


On Arcane Channeling: the action of Arcane Channeling actually is casting the spell and attacking. So no, you cannot hold the charge, because you are required to deliver the spell in the action you cast it.

Oh, indeed. Pity... What happens to the spell in case you fail the attack? Is it used up?

[Vhaidara]

That's... a bit complicated. As I recall, most touch spells have a duration listed as x rounds or until discharged, and missing does not discharge the spell. So an argument can be made that you still have it charged.

However, even if that is allowed, as I said, most of the time the duration is listed in rounds, making it sub par to precharge your attack.

[gorfnab]

2- Is there any possible (legal) way for a duskblade to use spells out of his spell list (which I feel is very small)? Specifically I'd love magic jar from necromancy. Didn't have the chance to get it on my wizard.

One cheesy way to cast spells not on the duskblade list is to take a level of Beguiler and the feat Versatile Spellcaster. With this combo you can spend two lower level Duskblade spellslots to cast a Beguiler spell of one level higher :smalltongue:.
There are a few non-cheesy ways to expand a Duskblades spellcasting, mainly through prestige classes like Mage of the Arcane Order and Sand Shaper. Another option is to go Bard 1 (with the Able Learner feat)/ Duskblade 9/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3 if you want 9th level spells or Bard 1/ Duskblade 13/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 4 if you want Full Attack Channeling (Otto's Irresistible Dance + Whip + Whirlwind Attack = :smallbiggrin:)

[Vhaidara]

4- Also, I cannot decide about my weapons. Since I was a blaster (no... don't.. ouch! :smallredface:) I dealt alot of the damage in the party. Now, I'm not sure what weapon to use.
greatsword: 2d6, 19-20 x2
glaive: 1d10 x3
guisarme: 2d4 x3 with an auto trip attempt if you get to hit the other guy. (does it work like this?)
or some shield-one handed combo?


5- Last but not least. A duskblade casts up to 5th level spells, meaning that he does not need more than 15 INT. How do you suggest I use my points, (32 point buy), before racial modifiers?


4. Greatsword if you want damage. The other two are reach weapons, so combo them with spiked armor and you get a 10ft threatened area.
And the guisarme allows you to make trip attacks from 10ft away, as well as drop your weapon to avoid being tripped if you fail your trip attempt

5. I would get a 16 INT (I hate odd number), then priority as follows: STR, DEX, CON, WIS, CHA (I forget how normal point buys work, so I can't give specific numbers)

[MrUberGr]

The stats come out 16 str, 12 dex, 14 con, 16 int, 10 wis, 10cha at level 5 (with the extra point used)


One cheesy way to cast spells not on the duskblade list is to take a level of Beguiler and the feat Versatile Spellcaster. With this combo you can spend two lower level Duskblade spellslots to cast a Beguiler spell of one level higher :smalltongue:.
There are a few non-cheesy ways to expand a Duskblades spellcasting, mainly through prestige classes like Mage of the Arcane Order and Sand Shaper. Another option is to go Bard 1 (with the Able Learner feat)/ Duskblade 9/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3 if you want 9th level spells or Bard 1/ Duskblade 13/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 4 if you want Full Attack Channeling (Otto's Irresistible Dance + Whip + Whirlwind Attack = :smallbiggrin:)

dndtools is out, can't check these now...:smallfrown: Whirlwind has a ton of prerequisites though. How am I supposed to accomplish them with only 8 feats?

[gorfnab]

dndtools is out, can't check these now...:smallfrown: Whirlwind has a ton of prerequisites though. How am I supposed to accomplish them with only 8 feats?
With the Bard 1/ Duskblade 13/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 4 build:
Human
1. Able Learner, Dodge
3. Knowledge Devotion, B: Combat Casting (Duskblade bonus feat)
6. Mobility
9. Combat Expertise
12. Spring Attack
15. Whirlwind Attack
18. Arcane Strike

[Raezeman]

There is also the arcane disciple feat (compete divine), that let's you add all spells from a domain to you spell list. It does require some planning to use though, since:
-the spells are only on your spell list, you still have to choose one of them to learn for your 1 new spell each level.
-Any spell you learn this way depends on WISDOM, not the usual INT for a dusk blade (i mean for minimum ability to learn and cast & save throw value)
-The domain has to come from a deity whose alignment you match completely.

So if that 10 on WISDOM you said is already permanently chosen, ignore this.

[MrUberGr]

The guide (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.gr/2011/08/duskblade-handbook.html) lists the arcane disciple domains, suggesting that you can get the PrC ....huh? Isn't that available only to clerics?

Secondly, there's a specific rule about holding the charge of touch spells. So in theory, you can channel it and use the following rule to keep it for your next encounter.

Holding the Charge

If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

[nedz]

There is also the arcane disciple feat (compete divine), that let's you add all spells from a domain to you spell list. It does require some planning to use though, since:
-the spells are only on your spell list, you still have to choose one of them to learn for your 1 new spell each level.
-Any spell you learn this way depends on WISDOM, not the usual INT for a dusk blade (i mean for minimum ability to learn and cast & save throw value)
-The domain has to come from a deity whose alignment you match completely.

So if that 10 on WISDOM you said is already permanently chosen, ignore this.

Arcane disciple is excellent for fixed list casters such as Duskblade since they know every spell on their list.
You do only get to cast each AD enabled spell once per day.
You must have a Patron Deity which restricts your choice of domains. Basically all of your domains (assuming you take AD multiple times) must come from the same Deity.

[Raezeman]

Arcane disciple is excellent for fixed list casters such as Duskblade since they know every spell on their list.


euhm, the duskblade i know (version 3.5) does not know every spell on their list, but learns 1 at each duskblade level.

[nedz]

euhm, the duskblade i know (version 3.5) does not know every spell on their list, but learns 1 at each duskblade level.

Ah, you're right. AD is not so good then.

[Grim Reader]

Is there any possible (legal) way for a duskblade to use spells out of his spell list (which I feel is very small)? Specifically I'd love magic jar from necromancy. Didn't have the chance to get it on my wizard.

Sand Shaper grants a metric crapton of spells known. Set it up right and you can dip a level at level six. Magic jar is not among them , though. However, two levels of Fiend-Blooded will do that for you.

[Mr Adventurer]

Silverbrow human and Azurin both offer a bonus feat.

[Vaz]

Duskblade 13/Ur Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 5 gets you Duskblade 18/Ur Priest 7 casting, plenty of Arcane Spells with which you can Arcane Strike with for additional damage, while Cleric spell access works wonders.

Necropolitan Duskblade 3/Warmage 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Mage of the Arcane Order 6/Contemplative 1

This nets you Channeling on spells up to 8th level from;

All Warmage spells, all Cleric spells, All PHB Sor/Wiz (plus any spells the DM allows), and any spells from a Domain you have access to.

Duskblade 13/Enlightened Fist allows you to make any Ray spell into a touch attack, and thus able to channel at the cost of 2 spell levels. Ocular Spell turns any spell with a target (not personal) into a Ray. Duskblade 3/X4/Enlightened Fist 8/Spellguard of Silverymoon 5

Requires; Stunning Fist, IUS, [Combat Casting is provided for], Ocular Spell (Metamagic reducers if possible allows you to make higher than 3rd level spells rays), and Magic of the Land. That leaves you 3 or 4 feats to spend on whatever.

[Big Fau]

You must have a Patron Deity which restricts your choice of domains. Basically all of your domains (assuming you take AD multiple times) must come from the same Deity.


Or, if Eberron is on the table, worship a Pantheon.

[Darrin]

Or, if Eberron is on the table, worship a Pantheon.

Worshipping an entire pantheon (Norse, Egyptian, Greek) has been available since 3.0 (Deities & Demigods).

[nedz]

Well

Arcane Disciple
Choose a deity, and then select a domain available to clerics of that deity. You can learn to cast the spells associated with that domain as arcane spells.
...
Special
You can take this feat more than once. Each time, you must select a different domain available to the same deity you chose the first time you selected the feat.


Unless Eberron has a different version of the feat ?

[Big Fau]

Well


Unless Eberron has a different version of the feat ?

IIRC, one deity is your actual patron but you draw power from the whole pantheon. It's been a while since I looked at how they worded it in the ECS.

[Piggy Knowles]

Possibly relevant to your interests (and also seasonal!):

Merry Gishmas! +19 BAB, 9th level spells and full attack channeling (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286800)

[MrUberGr]

How good do you think duskblade would work with dragon disciple PRC?

D12 HD, natural armor increase, extra strength and breath weapon. I think it can be good.

[Vaz]

Dragon Disciple is NEVER good.

[Piggy Knowles]

Eh, it's ok for adding extra spell slots to an accelerated casting list, so there's that.

[Deadline]

Dragon Disciple is NEVER good.

*shrug* It's better than a fighter, and not half-bad for any primary melee character. Most common entries I've seen are Sorcerer 1/Full BAB 4 or Bard 2/Barb 3.

For an actual spellcasting class (or gish), it's really bad. But for a melee bruiser? It's pretty good.

[Mr Adventurer]

*shrug* It's better than a fighter, and not half-bad for any primary melee character. Most common entries I've seen are Sorcerer 1/Full BAB 4 or Bard 2/Barb 3.

For an actual spellcasting class (or gish), it's really bad. But for a melee bruiser? It's pretty good.

Never understood why Duskblade isn't the go-to dip for melee entering Dragon Disciple.

I once built a character at level 10 who was a DD. He had Strength 40 when raging.

[Deadline]

Never understood why Duskblade isn't the go-to dip for melee entering Dragon Disciple.

I once built a character at level 10 who was a DD. He had Strength 40 when raging.

Right. Duskblade. You'll have to forgive me. I still sometimes forget entirely about the PHBII. :smalltongue:

[Big Fau]

Never understood why Duskblade isn't the go-to dip for melee entering Dragon Disciple.

Duskblade's just more useful than DD. Dragonborn Duskblade does almost everything you'd want a DD to do; Arcane Channeling is really good. Also, MAD.

[Mr Adventurer]

Duskblade's just more useful than DD. Dragonborn Duskblade does almost everything you'd want a DD to do; Arcane Channeling is really good. Also, MAD.

Sure. None of this makes any sense as an answer to what I said though. :)

[nedz]

Duskblade's just more useful than DD. Dragonborn Duskblade does almost everything you'd want a DD to do; Arcane Channeling is really good. Also, MAD.Sure. None of this makes any sense as an answer to what I said though. :)

I'll translate.

More levels of Duskblade are more useful than multiclassing into DD, mainly due to continued casting
Taking the Dragonborn template gives you almost the same extra dragon powers as DD
Arcane channeling (full attack) the 13th level Duskblade class feature is very good, and you'd miss this if you multiclassed
Your build is MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependant), which means that you will be less effective

[Mr Adventurer]

I'll translate.

More levels of Duskblade are more useful than multiclassing into DD, mainly due to continued casting
Taking the Dragonborn template gives you almost the same extra dragon powers as DD
Arcane channeling (full attack) the 13th level Duskblade class feature is very good, and you'd miss this if you multiclassed
Your build is MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependant), which means that you will be less effective


Sure. My post is about the entry to a DD though, not anything about whether DD is worth it or not.

[nedz]

Sure. My post is about the entry to a DD though, not anything about whether DD is worth it or not.

Sorry, DB would be a reasonable choice.

[MrUberGr]

So armored mage says you can use light and medium armor, and heavy shields, without chance of spell failure. Does this mean the arcane failure of heavy armor also goes down or does it remain the same?