On the topic of raising undead

[Qc Storm]

Playing a Dread Necromancer, mostly focusing on raising undead to do my bidding. However I have several questions on the matter.

1. What is the strongest undead I can raise? I always thought its base HD had to be equal to your caster level, but I'm not so sure now.

2. Is there a way to bypass the "No more than 10HD for base creature" limit on skeletons and zombies? It seems like undead would scale terribly past this level.

3. Is it possible to have zombie/skeletal mounts? Is my degree of control enough to ride them around? What about lending them to friends?

4. Assuming I receive bonus caster levels when casting Necromancy spells (Spellgifted), does this increase the maximum HD of undead under my control? Since I am casting Animate Dead as a caster level 6, instead of 5.

5. Would this also work with Fell Animate? (As it works "as animate dead".

6. What are some good creatures to zombify/skeletify?

That is all for now.

[OldTrees1]

1)
Skeletons have HD equal to the Racial HD of the now dead creature [Max 20HD]
Zombies have HD equal to 2x the Racial HD of the now dead creature [Max 20HD]
Skeleton and Zombie dragons do not have HD limits but still have HD equal to 1x/2x the HD of the now dead dragon

2)
Dragons ignore that limit

3)
Yes but they are mindless. So they will follow simple commands and will not seize initiative.

4)
Yes incrases to your caster level/Necromancy caster level/Animate Dead caster level increase your Animate Dead control pool.

5)
Yes :evil:

6)
Whatever you encounter unless your morals or consequences convince you otherwise. See the "Command Undead" spell for more details.

[Qc Storm]

Skeletons have HD equal to the Racial HD of the now dead creature [Max 20HD]
Zombies have HD equal to 2x the Racial HD of the now dead creature [Max 20HD]
Skeleton and Zombie dragons do not have HD limits but still have HD equal to 1x/2x the HD of the now dead dragon


You may have misunderstood my question, or I have misunderstood your answer.

I wish to know if my caster level imposes a limit to what undead I can raise. Can I raise a 10HD dragon at level 1? Or must I wait for level 10?


2)
Dragons ignore that limit

I would like source on that. Not that I doubt your words, but I will need to bring it up to my DM.


3)
Yes but they are mindless. So they will follow simple commands and will not seize initiative.


So just moving me around and attacking? I don't really need much more.

[Tommy2255]

Page 33 of Libris Mortis has a section on undead mounts.

The HD limit for Raise Undead is double your CL, so you'd need to be lvl 5 to raise a 10 HD creature. Double with desecrate, so you could raise a 20 HD skeleton at lvl 5, which would be your entire control limit if you were a cleric or wizard.

[OldTrees1]

Sorry for the delayed reply


You may have misunderstood my question, or I have misunderstood your answer.

I wish to know if my caster level imposes a limit to what undead I can raise. Can I raise a 10HD dragon at level 1? Or must I wait for level 10?

Ah. Animate dead does have a cap per casting equal to 2xcl (4xcl in a desecrated area) per undead.




I would like source on that. Not that I doubt your words, but I will need to bring it up to my DM.
Skeletal Dragon and Zombie Dragon templates in the Draconomicon (pg 197)
The default Skeleton/Zombie template does have a HD limit. However Animate Dead can animate dragon corpses using the Skeletal/Zombie Dragon templates that don't have a HD limit.




So just moving me around and attacking? I don't really need much more.
That would work

[Qc Storm]

Additional question I forgot. Do zombies/skeletons keep Improved Grab? I'm not sure if this qualifies as an "ability that enhances ranged or melee attacks".

What would be an example of said statement?

[OldTrees1]

Additional question I forgot. Do zombies/skeletons keep Improved Grab? I'm not sure if this qualifies as an "ability that enhances ranged or melee attacks".

What would be an example of said statement?

Skeletons/Zombies lose all special attacks. Improved Grab is a Special Attack.
They do retain Special Qualities "that improve its melee or ranged attacks" however I do not remember any.

[ShurikVch]

2)
It's only limit of spell Animate Dead, and only for zombies (skeletons are up to 20 HD)

Undead, created with Seed of Undeath/Greater Seed of Undeath, Animate Legion, Plague of Undead or Fell Animate metamagic, not limited in such way

[OldTrees1]

2)
It's only limit of spell Animate Dead, and only for zombies (skeletons are up to 20 HD)

Undead, created with Seed of Undeath/Greater Seed of Undeath, Animate Legion, Plague of Undead or Fell Animate metamagic, not limited in such way

Strangely true? (D&D tools is down and I am AFB) Looks like an oversight. (Especially since non dragon zombies with more than 20HD do not have a CR)

[Qc Storm]

2)
or Fell Animate metamagic, not limited in such way

Since Fell Animate adds the template to the creature, is it not still restricted to 10HD max?

[ShurikVch]

Since Fell Animate adds the template to the creature, is it not still restricted to 10HD max?

"Zombie (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm)" is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it can’t be made into a zombie with the animate dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm) spell.
Nothing about HD limit for zombies from other sources. Theoretically, you can have zombie with HD over 9000
Fell Animate "can't create more Hit Dice of undead than twice your caster level", but even this way you break 10 HD cap at 6th level at most

[OldTrees1]

Nothing about HD limit for zombies from other sources. Theoretically, you can have zombie with HD over 9000
Fell Animate "can't create more Hit Dice of undead than twice your caster level", but even this way you break 10 HD cap at 6th level at most

At 11th level actually. 10HD is the HD cap of the corpse(for zombificaiton). 20HD is the HD cap of the Animate Dead undead.


I would reiterate that the non-animate dead exception to the HD cap is an obvious oversight. (On the same order as drowning being unstoppable was an obvious oversight) Most DMs would not spare a second to correct the oversight and restrict animated undead to HD that have CR values.

[Dalebert]

You should def take the Undead Master feat.

[ShurikVch]

At 11th level actually. 10HD is the HD cap of the corpse(for zombificaiton). 20HD is the HD cap of the Animate Dead undead. 20 HD is for skeletons, and Fell Animate make zombies, which are limited at 10 HD (maybe because their HD doubled during zombification?)



I would reiterate that the non-animate dead exception to the HD cap is an obvious oversight. (On the same order as drowning being unstoppable was an obvious oversight) Most DMs would not spare a second to correct the oversight and restrict animated undead to HD that have CR values. OK, let's say Mohrg (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/mohrg.htm) killed a Stone Giant (14 HD). By RAW after 1d4 days it must rise as 28 HD Stone Giant zombie. How will you rule it?

[Qc Storm]

You should def take the Undead Master feat.

It's an epic feat though.

Dread Necromancer more or less offers me the same thing. 4+CHA HD per caster level. I don't know how both of these things would stack.

[mabriss lethe]

At 11th level actually. 10HD is the HD cap of the corpse(for zombificaiton). 20HD is the HD cap of the Animate Dead undead.


I would reiterate that the non-animate dead exception to the HD cap is an obvious oversight. (On the same order as drowning being unstoppable was an obvious oversight) Most DMs would not spare a second to correct the oversight and restrict animated undead to HD that have CR values.

I think 6th level was mention due to Desecrate shenanigans.

[OldTrees1]

20 HD is for skeletons, and Fell Animate make zombies, which are limited at 10 HD (maybe because their HD doubled during zombification?)


OK, let's say Mohrg (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/mohrg.htm) killed a Stone Giant (14 HD). By RAW after 1d4 days it must rise as 28 HD Stone Giant zombie. How will you rule it?

Corpses used to make zombies are limited to 10HD because their HD are doubled when made into Zombies. Fell Animate has a limit on undead HD per spell not on corpse HD per spell.


General: When the rules have a conflict arising from an oversight, I recognize the oversight and houserule to correct the oversight.
Specific: I would limit the Morhg create spawn ability to creatures that would have a CR when turned into zombies. (Aka Dragons or living creatures with 10 or fewer HD) Thus the Stone Giant would not rise as a zombie. (More powerful animation like other template undead from Create Undead would be needed)


@Qc Storm
Dread Necromancer is 4 x caster level[as normal] + Cha x Dread Necromancer Class Level

@mabriss lethe
That would make sense if we folded animate dead like effects into animate dead (since desecrate affects animate dead)

[ShurikVch]

One more example (Monster Manual 2, from the Spawn of Kyuss template):

Once the worm reaches the brain, it deals 1d2 points of Intelligence damage per round until it either is killed (by remove curse or remove disease) or slays its host (death occurs at 0 Intelligence). A Small, Medium-size, or Large creature slain by a worm rises as a new spawn of Kyuss 1d6+4 rounds later; a Tiny or smaller creature quickly putrefies; and a Huge or larger creature becomes a normal zombie of the appropriate size. Any 10 HD gargantuan creatures?

[sleepyphoenixx]

CR is notoriously inaccurate anyway. After a certain point a zombie just isn't a threat, no matter how many HD it has.

[OldTrees1]

One more example (Monster Manual 2, from the Spawn of Kyuss template):
Any 10 HD gargantuan creatures?

3.0 Zombie Rules do not apply to 3.5
*Zombie was not a template but rather had a number of undead HD based on the size of the zombie. Gargantuan had 24HD IIRC. 3.5 changed the Zombie Rules and added a HD limit to Zombies.

[Vhaidara]

6. What are some good creatures to zombify/skeletify?

First of all, zombies suck (3.5 here). Yes, they are tanky, but single actions suck, and they take up double your HD limit. For every zombie, you can have 2 skeletons. And each skelly has double the actions, meaning that 1 zombie = 4 skelly in action economy (roughly)

Second, hydras. HD = heads. So a 10HD hydra skeleton has 10 bite attacks.

EDIT: Also, if you can BS it, template stacking is silly on undead. Try getting half dragon hydras.

[Coidzor]

Ah. Animate dead does have a cap per casting equal to 2xcl (4xcl in a desecrated area) per undead.

Not per undead per casting, just per casting.


Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit)

Your control pool is 4 HD per CL by default, though Dread Necromancer changes this.

However, if you somehow manage to create more HD of undead(whether one undead or multiple) with a single casting of animate dead than you can control, such as through a combination of Desecrate and the power of the Deathbound Domain to get 6*CL HD of undead created in one go, you control them, however, any additional undead added to the animate dead control pool would cause undead to become uncontrolled until you were back down at your control pool of HD or less.

So if a character had, say, CL 10 and was in a desecrated area and one had a 40 HD dragon's corpse to work with, one could make a 40 HD dragon skeleton. Or 40 1 HD human skeletons. Maybe even 80 1/2 HD cat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cat.htm) skeletons or 160 1/4 HD rat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rat.htm) skeletons. Fractional HD always give me a headache.


First of all, zombies suck (3.5 here). Yes, they are tanky, but single actions suck, and they take up double your HD limit. For every zombie, you can have 2 skeletons. And each skelly has double the actions, meaning that 1 zombie = 4 skelly in action economy (roughly)

Second, hydras. HD = heads. So a 10HD hydra skeleton has 10 bite attacks.

EDIT: Also, if you can BS it, template stacking is silly on undead. Try getting half dragon hydras.

They can be good for creatures that only have a single attack anyway(half-BAB + double HD = same BAB for full BAB enemies, so better to-hit to boot) or that need to have a lot of HP for whatever reason or have flight that you'd like to retain. Mostly flying mounts and zombie dragons though.

For bonus points, make sure that you max out the number of heads a hydra has before killing it for animation. :smallamused:

Yes.


6. What are some good creatures to zombify/skeletify?

Animals(and other creatures) with lots of natural weapons that won't be lost by becoming Skeletons are great choices, almost any animal of note is going to be more worthwhile than a standard player race, for instance.

Things like Dire Bats and other creatures with a flight speed are fair choices for zombification so that they can provide flight for the party and its entourage by acting as flying mounts. Something like a Rhino or Ogre with one single attack per round anyway and an already good strength can make fair zombies as well. IIRC, Zombies are better candidates for Awaken Undead later in one's career. If you can get your hands on them, any Outsider corpses you find are also generally better used as zombies.

I'd recommend looking over the recommendations made to druids for animals to summon and animal companions to take.

[OldTrees1]

Not per undead per casting, just per casting.

Oops. I started by listing the cap per casting and changed my mind to list per undead (max per undead implied using an entire casting for one corpse) instead. However I left it as a misleading sentence. Thanks for clarifying the issue.

[ShurikVch]

3.0 Zombie Rules do not apply to 3.5
*Zombie was not a template but rather had a number of undead HD based on the size of the zombie. Gargantuan had 24HD IIRC. 3.5 changed the Zombie Rules and added a HD limit to Zombies.
Your objection is invalid.
Firstly, MM2 have 3.5 update booklet, which doesn't change rules in question
Second, it was repeated to the letter in "The Ecology of Spawn of Kyuss", which was printed in Dragon #336 (October 2005)

[OldTrees1]

Your objection is invalid.
Firstly, MM2 have 3.5 update booklet, which doesn't change rules in question
Second, it was repeated to the letter in "The Ecology of Spawn of Kyuss", which was printed in Dragon #336 (October 2005)

So since the MM2 3.5 update booklet did not update the zombie rules for the Spawn of Kyuss, you are claiming that the Spawn of Kyuss raises 3.0 zombies in 3.5?

Or are you saying that since they did not update the Spawn of Kyuss with regard to 3.5 Zombie rules, that we should recognize that as a reasonable mistake on the part of WotC and fix it ourselves?

Or are you saying that you would allow a creature with a CR create a more powerful minion that does not have a CR?

Or did I miss a 4th option?

[137beth]

Raising undead? Impossible: Raise Dead doesn't work on undead:smalltongue:

[OldTrees1]

Raising undead? Impossible: Raise Dead doesn't work on undead:smalltongue:

Revive Undead reanimates a dead undead.

[AMFV]

Definitely Zombies are usually worse than Skeletons, they do make better mounts though, do to retaining movement modes like fly.

[Dalebert]

Seems like you ought to be able to attach some kind of light and strong membrane between the wing bones of a skeletal mount so it could fly.

Also, I want a burrowing zombie mount. <.< >.> <.<

[Coidzor]

Your objection is invalid.
Firstly, MM2 have 3.5 update booklet, which doesn't change rules in question
Second, it was repeated to the letter in "The Ecology of Spawn of Kyuss", which was printed in Dragon #336 (October 2005)

Then it's DM fiat territory because referring to a creature that no longer exists(3.0 zombies are flat-out replaced by 3.5 zombies) requires DM adjudication.

[Slipperychicken]

2. Is there a way to bypass the "No more than 10HD for base creature" limit on skeletons and zombies? It seems like undead would scale terribly past this level.


Animate Dread Warrior (Sorc/Wiz 6) does not have a cap of any sort, and leaves undead creatures with their mental scores (They take a -4 to Intelligence and Charisma), allowing you to potentially raise spellcasters as minions, especially wisdom-based ones. It costs 250xp per hit die, though.



3. Is it possible to have zombie/skeletal mounts? Is my degree of control enough to ride them around? What about lending them to friends?


Skeleton horses are awesome. They never rest, don't need to eat, and can run forever, potentially getting you places 3-4x faster than normal. If I was your GM, I would let it work, but I would still call for Ride checks. (EDIT: Said Ride checks would be as normal, so bear in mind that normal riding doesn't need checks anyway.)

[Randomocity132]

1)
Skeletons have HD equal to the Racial HD of the now dead creature [Max 20HD]
Zombies have HD equal to 2x the Racial HD of the now dead creature [Max 20HD]
Skeleton and Zombie dragons do not have HD limits but still have HD equal to 1x/2x the HD of the now dead dragon

2)
Dragons ignore that limit



Can I get the source on that? It doesn't talk about a HD limit, but it also doesn't say it revokes the typical HD limit of Animate Dead.



Skeleton horses are awesome. They never rest, don't need to eat, and can run forever, potentially getting you places 3-4x faster than normal. If I was your GM, I would let it work, but I would still call for Ride checks.

Even though the Ride skill explicitly states that simply riding a mount, undead or otherwise, doesn't provoke ride checks? I mean if you were taking it into battle, you'd need to, but otherwise you shouldn't need to by RAW.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's a lot of cool undead you can create with Create (Greater) Undead once Animate Dead loses it's luster.
Magic of Faerun has the Spectral Mage and Crypt Spawn which you can use to turn strong enemies into your minions via rebuking.

The ability to control hundreds of HD worth of zombies and skeletons might sound great on paper but against level appropiate threats they are little more than cannon fodder.

[Slipperychicken]

Even though the Ride skill explicitly states that simply riding a mount, undead or otherwise, doesn't provoke ride checks? I mean if you were taking it into battle, you'd need to, but otherwise you shouldn't need to by RAW.

That's what I meant to say. He'd have to make ride checks when appropriate, as if he was riding a living mount. I'll edit my previous post to reflect that. :smalltongue:

[OldTrees1]

Can I get the source on that? It doesn't talk about a HD limit, but it also doesn't say it revokes the typical HD limit of Animate Dead.
The 20 HD limit is a limit of the MM 3.5 Zombie Template, not of the Animate Dead spell. As such since Dragons use the Draconomicon template, they do not have the MM 3.5 HD limit.

So sources would be:
PHB 3.5, MM 3.5 and Draconomicon


Clairfying note: Animate Dead has a HD limit per casting of Animate Dead. However this can get fairly large (Optimized: 6HD/cl x 40cl = 240HD per casting)

[Randomocity132]

The 20 HD limit is a limit of the MM 3.5 Zombie Template, not of the Animate Dead spell. As such since Dragons use the Draconomicon template, they do not have the MM 3.5 HD limit.

So sources would be:
PHB 3.5, MM 3.5 and Draconomicon


Clairfying note: Animate Dead has a HD limit per casting of Animate Dead. However this can get fairly large (Optimized: 6HD/cl x 40cl = 240HD per casting)

Oh, excellent. 13 CL x 3(deathbound) x 2(desecrate) would give me a 78 HD limit per casting, I believe. That should be plenty sufficient for my necromancer.

[Coidzor]

Animate Dread Warrior (Sorc/Wiz 6) does not have a cap of any sort, and leaves undead creatures with their mental scores (They take a -4 to Intelligence and Charisma), allowing you to potentially raise spellcasters as minions, especially wisdom-based ones. It costs 250xp per hit die, though.

Indeed, one of the better uses of defeated enemies with class levels. The spell is from Unapproachable East, and is just within the confines of adding to a spell-stitched undead minion or familiar. Or having added to one's self if one is also undead.


Skeleton horses are awesome. They never rest, don't need to eat, and can run forever, potentially getting you places 3-4x faster than normal. If I was your GM, I would let it work, but I would still call for Ride checks. (EDIT: Said Ride checks would be as normal, so bear in mind that normal riding doesn't need checks anyway.)

Either that or they can't run because they're Undead, but they're still faster because they can travel 24/7. I seem to recall some controversy on the matter, though I don't recall the right of it offhand.

[Dayaz]

They can be good for creatures that only have a single attack anyway(half-BAB + double HD = same BAB for full BAB enemies, so better to-hit to boot) or that need to have a lot of HP for whatever reason or have flight that you'd like to retain. Mostly flying mounts and zombie dragons though.

For bonus points, make sure that you max out the number of heads a hydra has before killing it for animation. :smallamused:


Animals(and other creatures) with lots of natural weapons that won't be lost by becoming Skeletons are great choices, almost any animal of note is going to be more worthwhile than a standard player race, for instance.

Things like Dire Bats and other creatures with a flight speed are fair choices for zombification so that they can provide flight for the party and its entourage by acting as flying mounts. Something like a Rhino or Ogre with one single attack per round anyway and an already good strength can make fair zombies as well. IIRC, Zombies are better candidates for Awaken Undead later in one's career. If you can get your hands on them, any Outsider corpses you find are also generally better used as zombies.

I'd recommend looking over the recommendations made to druids for animals to summon and animal companions to take.

Hydras are amazing zombies, since they only use a standard action to attack with all of their heads anyways.

I'm not so good at necromancy (my dm saw me as a Malconvoker minionmancer, so I'm still banned from minions) but here are some good handbooks I found: Dread necro guide (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1096381), the Revised Necromancer (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1049211)

[Slipperychicken]

Either that or they can't run because they're Undead, but they're still faster because they can travel 24/7. I seem to recall some controversy on the matter, though I don't recall the right of it offhand.

If it's any consolation...


Nonabilities

Constitution (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities)
Any living creature has at least 1 point of Constitution. A creature with no Constitution has no body or no metabolism. It is immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless the effect works on objects or is harmless. The creature is also immune to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain, and automatically fails Constitution checks. A creature with no Constitution cannot tire and thus can run indefinitely without tiring (unless the creature’s description says it cannot run).

[ShurikVch]

So since the MM2 3.5 update booklet did not update the zombie rules for the Spawn of Kyuss, you are claiming that the Spawn of Kyuss raises 3.0 zombies in 3.5?

Or are you saying that since they did not update the Spawn of Kyuss with regard to 3.5 Zombie rules, that we should recognize that as a reasonable mistake on the part of WotC and fix it ourselves?

Or are you saying that you would allow a creature with a CR create a more powerful minion that does not have a CR?

Or did I miss a 4th option?
If 3.5 booklet and "The Ecology of Spawn of Kyuss" is not good enouth for you, Elder Evils (Chapter 9: The Worm that Walks) repeats this rules all other again, multiple times (pg. 138 and 143). Apparently, people in the WotC doesn't see anything wrong with it. Also, book refer to MM2

Then it's DM fiat territory because referring to a creature that no longer exists(3.0 zombies are flat-out replaced by 3.5 zombies) requires DM adjudication.
Please, tell me, what's wrong with using the table Advanced Monster Challenge Rating / Adding Hit Dice (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingHitDice) ?

[OldTrees1]

@ShurikVch
You know you would have saved yourself a lot of time if you simply showed 28HD zombies have a CR of 8 in the first place.

Next time, address the argument being presented. (The argument being "Monsters without a CR are obviously a error.")

Sidenote: WotC makes more copy-paste errors than either of us could count. So no, a quote that was likely to have been an error was not a valid argument. Showing it was not an error would/was a valid argument.

[ShurikVch]

@ShurikVch
You know you would have saved yourself a lot of time if you simply showed 28HD zombies have a CR of 8 in the first place.
Nyssa, Gargantuan Elasmosaurus Zombie - 24 HD, CR 10

[Coidzor]

If 3.5 booklet and "The Ecology of Spawn of Kyuss" is not good enouth for you, Elder Evils (Chapter 9: The Worm that Walks) repeats this rules all other again, multiple times (pg. 138 and 143). Apparently, people in the WotC doesn't see anything wrong with it.

Also, book refer to MM2

This is WOTC we're talking, here, comedies of error are not exactly uncommon in their work.

MM2 is notorious for being poorly edited(hello Adamantine Horror) and for not having the update booklet go all the way in what it needed to do. Also, it was originally 3.0 content, so it makes sense that it would refer to 3.0 zombies in the first place.


Please, tell me, what's wrong with using the table Advanced Monster Challenge Rating / Adding Hit Dice (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingHitDice) ?

Because that has nothing to do with 3.5 zombies replacing 3.0 zombies and making the move questionable at best, illegal at worst. So you'd need to show that 3.0 zombies still exist.

[OldTrees1]

Nyssa, Gargantuan Elasmosaurus Zombie - 24 HD, CR 10

Yeah, not by 3.5 rules. (also source?)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingHitDice

Sorry but a 24HD zombie is not CR 10 according to 3.5

[ShurikVch]

So you'd need to show that 3.0 zombies still exist. Why? Zombies 3.0 were mentioned by OldTrees1, not me.
You can expect refer to 3.0 monster in book released in September/2002, but strangely to search it in magazine from October/2005, from September/2007, or book from December/2007

EDIT:
Yeah, not by 3.5 rules. (also source?)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingHitDice

Sorry but a 24HD zombie is not CR 10 according to 3.5 IIRR, you asked for 28 HD and CR 12
Dungeon Magazine

[OldTrees1]

EDIT: IIRR, you asked for 28 HD and CR 12

28HD zombies are CR 6(20HD Zombie) +2(+8 Undead HD) = CR 8

Sidenote: Dungeon Magazine is willing to disregard 3.5 rules when it suits them. (For better or worse)


Edit: There still is the issue that the Zombie template does not calculate a CR for Zombies made from corpses that used to have more than 10 RHD.

Edit 2: I think I am not being clear enough about what my argument is/was. So I will try again here:
If a corpse can be animated as a Zombie monster then it should have a knowable CR. Zombies for corpses with more than 10 RHD do not have a knowable CR. This implies that the Zombie template was not intended for corpses of more than 10 RHD. Given WotC average level of compentency, any rule wording that could make a zombie out of a corpse with more than 10 RHD is more likely to be erroneous than WotC intending to have a monster without a CR.

[ShurikVch]

Sidenote: Dungeon Magazine is willing to disregard 3.5 rules when it suits them. (For better or worse) Nyssa is not standard zombie. It have a breath weapon(Stinking Cloud), Improved Grab and Improved critical(bite)


Edit: There still is the issue that the Zombie template does not calculate a CR for Zombies made from corpses that used to have more than 10 RHD. If table from SRD is not good enough for you, I can suggest:
From 4 HD, zombie's CR progressed roughly by 1 per 2 HD. Just continue this progression for creatures with more HD