The Best Shapeshifter?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Next week I'm going to be starting a short solo gestalt campaign. I'll be running two characters, a Wizard//Factotum and... something else. I'd like to have a shapeshifter of some sort, but I'm not sure what the best way to do that is. I'd like as much at-will shifting as possible, on as strong a melee base as I can get.

Level 6, all books except Forgotten Realms content, and no Dragon magazine (Dragon Compendium is OK). One level of LA buyoff. Optimization is pretty much whatever I want it to be, but I'd like to avoid thrown books.

The best I can think of is Divine Minion <anything> 1/Master of Many Forms, although that's pushing the cheese envelope... and somehow it feels kind of odd without animal forms. Other than that... Wildshape Ranger/MoMF is just barely getting started at this level, Dragonfire Adept just gets humanoid forms, Shapeshift druid is kind of limited (and I don't want a second caster in the party), and... I think I'm out.

Anyone know something I'm missing?

[eggynack]

I'd stick with the MoMF build, but open it with druid. You start off with all the great stuff you get from five levels of druid, and the progression takes you to great shapeshifting power. Thus, when the wild shape ranger is just getting his start, you're thrumming with magic juice, and when the ranger would be exploding with shapeshifting power, you get to do the same, except better in most ways. It's neat.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I doubt that I'll have the chance to level more than once or twice, is the thing.

[bekeleven]

I'd stick with the MoMF build, but open it with druid. You start off with all the great stuff you get from five levels of druid, and the progression takes you to great shapeshifting power. Thus, when the wild shape ranger is just getting his start, you're thrumming with magic juice, and when the ranger would be exploding with shapeshifting power, you get to do the same, except better in most ways. It's neat.

Well, yes. I don't think anyone chooses wild shape ranger over druid because they think it's the more powerful option.

That said: Druid 5 / MoMF 7 / Warshaper 3 /MoMF+3/Warshaper+2 is hard to go wrong with.

I'd argue that Divine Minion is an illegal entry, but I admit the wording is confusing.

If you take levels in warshaper, grab magical items that increase your wild shape HD. There's a total of +5 across 2 books, I can dig them up later if you want. In fact, do that anyway. Some of them don't cap at your character level, the cap at 20HD instead.

I feel a bit dirty saying this, but if you want homebrew, my Shifter class is the best you're likely to get in terms of adapting the concept as a solid tier 3 class.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I feel a bit dirty saying this, but if you want homebrew, my Shifter class is the best you're likely to get in terms of adapting the concept as a solid tier 3 class.
That look familiar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213031) :smalltongue:

And yeah, I do like ranger for the better BAB and free prereq feat. Plus, I could Swift Hunter it up on the other half of my gestalt, which would be cool.

[eggynack]

I doubt that I'll have the chance to level more than once or twice, is the thing.
Sure, but you're obviously not getting shapeshifting abilities far in excess of that at level seven or eight from another build. You're getting large at level seven, along with giants and humanoids, which is about as good as it gets. As for comparisons between entering from druid or ranger, druid tends to be superior in most ways, owing largely to how long their low level spells retain utility. I have a pretty long list of 3rd level and lower druid spells that you wouldn't be embarrassed to have running at level 20, but to put it simply, you get stuff like heart of water, luminous armor, alter fortune, and primal instinct. It's a lot better than a couple points of BAB and skills.

Edit: Also, the animal companion's faster progression will give it actual combat relevance at levels six and seven.

[EugeneVoid]

Can Assume Supernatural Ability to take Consume Identity?

[bekeleven]

That look familiar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213031) :smalltongue:

And yeah, I do like ranger for the better BAB and free prereq feat. Plus, I could Swift Hunter it up on the other half of my gestalt, which would be cool.
I won't comment on the balance of your class, but I will say that it doesn't fit the concept mine was built to fill.

1 - No wild shape from the start. I chose to center my class around this concept, so this decision would be like me making a wizard that gets spellcasting at level 2.

2 - When you get wild shape at levels 2 and 3, it's only for ~30 minutes a day. Again, reminds me of a wizard - with a terrible chassis designed to emphasize its only class ability - getting 1 spell a day at level 2.

3 - Gains 3 creature types (Animal, Vermin, Magical beasts) in 20 levels. This would make me want to prestige out. Mine was designed to subsume the MoMF to encourage single-classing, because I like classes that reward loyalty. It keeps builds simpler, among other reasons.

4 - Your class limits wild shape (15 minutes of meditation after every encounter!) and some abilities used outside wild shape.

I want to repeat that I'm not trying to bash your class, but rather say that your class does not fit the (fluff or crunch) concept mine was meant to fill: That of a single shapechanging class capable of becoming the world.

That said, both of our classes buff wild shaped forms. Your does so by granting them natural weapons with high damage (for small forms like an eagle or cat), pounce, grab, etc. Mine grants abilities partially cribbed and adapted from existing prestige classes, like Ex Sq, limited access to supernaturals, improved natural armor, weapon special abilities, etc.

[Karnith]

Can Assume Supernatural Ability to take Consume Identity?
That way lies madness.

Yes, it checks out by RAW, but said trick is unlikely to be helpful in this particular game. Greater Doppelgangers are in Monsters of Faerun, and FR material is banned.

Also, it's kinda stupidly overpowered and likely to be banned on its own merits.

[bekeleven]

Ethereal Doppleganger can do (almost) the same thing and it's in MM2.

Failing that use the Mindstealer from WotC Monster Mayhem, although it needs a higher feat investment.

Those 3 of the 9 most broken forms I've found for eating Supernatural abilities. Others include the Shaedling, the Myconid Sovereign (which I think is prebroken), and the Elemental Weird.

[Karnith]

Ethereal Doppleganger can do (almost) the same thing and it's in MM2.
Ethereal Doppelgangers are going to be out of reach for this character barring some shenanigans, though, as they have 20 HD (and most of the things that boost effective Wild Shape level are from banned sources).

And I had forgotten how dumb Mindstealers were. Thanks for reminding me.

[bekeleven]

And I had forgotten how dumb Mindstealers were. Thanks for reminding me.

I attribute the lack of thanks for shaedlings to them never being far from your mind.

[Grod_The_Giant]

UPDATE: After speaking with my DM, it turns out this thread is moot. He OK'd using Divine Minion, and is letting me swap out Improved Wild Shape (Fey) for (Animals). So I'm good. But thanks for the responses!

EDIT: As a side note... how does the Divine Minion's free-action wildshape interact with the whole "restoring hit points as if you slept a night" thing? Can I infinitely heal in one round?