Comparative Builds

[GhengisConrad]

Because I da*m well feel like it, the race is a half-minotaur feral strongheart halfling with dragontouched and dragon wings as its feats... If it makes a difference...

I would please appreciate your professional comparison pros/cons of the two following builds

SwordSage 1
Warlock 6
Swordsage 1

vs

Rouge 1
Any 4 classes you want (anywhere you want them)
Trapsmith 1
Abjurant Champ 1
unseen seer 1

[claypigeons]

Because I da*m well feel like it, the race is a half-minotaur feral strongheart halfling with dragontouched and dragon wings as its feats... If it makes a difference...

I would please appreciate your professional comparison pros/cons of the two following builds

0 SwordSage 1
4 Warlock 6
1 Swordsage 1

vs

0 Rouge 1
Any 4 classes you want (anywhere you want them)
0 Trapsmith 1
1 Abjurant Champ 1
0 unseen seer 1

What are you trying to ~do~ with this character? It's easier to give build advice when there is a goal in mind.

[GhengisConrad]

What are you trying to ~do~ with this character? It's easier to give build advice when there is a goal in mind.

kill bad guys....

Haven't decided exactly where to go from here, except for like 4 levels of ShadowLord. I wanted to leave it kinda open ended to get a variety of input.

I guess, after this progression, there will be 4 levels of ShadowLord and then also open ended after that...

[Tommy2255]

kill bad guys....

Does that mean combat focused? Both of those builds are fairly skill focused (I gueeeessss?) and neither has full High BAB progression. Do you want to sneak around stabbin' folks? Do you want to alternate between shooting people with EB and going invisible to set yourself up for a virtually guarenteed to hit touch attack against a flat footed opponent (A strategy I like for Warlocks, because I like trolling my enemies as much as I like killing them)? Is there any particular reason why you want to play either of those builds?


the race is a half-minotaur feral strongheart halfling with dragontouched and dragon wings as its feats

Also, you're a monstrosity. What the hell kind of backstory would justify such nonsense?

[nedz]

I don't understand your notation, especially the prefixes.

Do you mean ?

SwordSage 1 / Warlock 6 / Swordsage +1

vs

Rouge 1 / X 4 / Trapsmith 1 / Abjurant Champ 1 / Unseen seer 1

Also: what are you trying to do with this character ?

[GhengisConrad]

woops. That is my own personal notation at the front there. I have edited it out. It's the BAB for my own personal comparisons.

I like playing as an effective mess. The longer I stay in one class, the more boring I feel the build is. The more singular my race is, the more boring it is.

I like the idea of a brutish hellish monstrosity that you can barely hit just disappearing and then showing up behind you with claw attacks, gore attacks, sneak attacks, bonus damages. Built on a cludge of weird races and obscure class combinations.

[Vaz]

Because I da*m well feel like it, the race is a half-minotaur feral strongheart halfling with dragontouched and dragon wings as its feats... If it makes a difference...
So, there's 2 Feats wasted, a +2LA. You don't get much benefits from feral due to no RHD short of stat-ups; no Pounce etc.


I would please appreciate your professional comparison pros/cons of the two following builds

SwordSage 1
Warlock 6
Swordsage 1
If you're wanting to kill things, you've got a slowed BAB progression, in addition to your +2LA; so that is at least 4 lower BAB (is Warlock 3/4, if 1/2 progression, that's 6 lower than an equivalent ECL10 character; you don't actually have a second iterative attack if you need it (although Natural Attacks makes up for that slightly). The Two Wasted Feats don't really help either in killing things. The Feats and the Half Dragon Template Class provides similar (not as much, but similar benefits), while Dragonborn helps out.

vs


Rouge 1
Any 4 classes you want (anywhere you want them)
Trapsmith 1
Abjurant Champ 1
unseen seer 1
Not sure what you really want with this, either. You've got a Melee Focus with your race choice, but you're focusing on Rogueing.

[GhengisConrad]

I want a melee monster with sneaky little tricks like popping behind and smashing, and shadowpounce does that. I like being complicated to hit, shadowblur does that.

I like to ambush and suddenly be dealing a bunch of attacks. Hiding, moveing silently, and then BAMPF, horns and claws and sneak attack damage and then you turn around, my ac is really high (nat armor +8, plus dodge bonus) and I'm all shadowblury and you miss and then BAMPF more full-roudn attacks from multiple angles. Your done.

I like even if you do hit me, and I'm injured, I just go run and hide, you can't find me, and I'm all healing myself. I like having things that cannot be taken away by anti-magic fields (dragon wings as opposed to a soulmeld). I like being prepared for when I shadowpounce that Raptoran in the air.



This is what I like about the shadowlord build. These are the 2 cheapest ways I've found to get in and not be a human.


I guess the full build idea is currently something like

Strongheart Halfling, Dragontouched Dragon Wings
Feral 1
Half-Minotaur 1
Rouge 1
totemist 3
Trapsmith 1
Abjurant Champ 1
unseen seer 1
Shadowlord 4
Disciple of Mephistopheles 3


but I like the flavor of the warlock, but not enough to eat all that totemist dipping. IF there was a way to progress my warlock into sneak attacking, I'd still be using 6 class levels to grab shadowlord instead of 4.

How much do I like warlock compared to totemist.. meh... I dunno.

would there by a theurgist that ups warlocks and totemists, now THAT would rock me.

That's what I got rolling around upstairs.

[Vaz]

-To get in Telflammar Shadowlord, you need +2d6 Sneak Attack, some form of Shadow Jump or Dimension Door. Shadow Dancer is a good lead in, Totemist 2 provides unlimited Short Range Teleport. However, as you're only taking Shadow Dancer for the Shadow Jump, you might as well just eat the Template cost. Sneak Attack is accessible by Rogue 3, Sneak Attack Fighter 3 (with Thug for skills usually), X6/Swordsage 2, or two feats; either Martial Study [Shadow Hand]+Martial Stance, or Bind Vestige+Improved Bind Vestige, along with several other methods.

Level dips are usually the cheapest. If going Rogue, works best with Changeling Rogue and Rilkan Substitution; Fighter gets you full BAB (+3, rather than +2), but Swordsage 2 is better; you get more exciting options in combat.

So; 2LA/Totemist 2/X4/Swordsage 2/TSL 4+

X4 can be anything, but Fighter 2/PsyWar 2 gets you the required bonus feats; PsyWar 2 with Practised Manifester actually allows you turn into HUGE form, so you can afford to not pump Strength as much. Please, please, ask your DM to allow LA Buy-off, especially as the template adds actually very little to the build, apart from being allowed as qualification purposes. Ask that when you gain a level up, you can automatically gain the LA and qualify for the TFL at the same time, but begin the LA Buy-off process straight away.

[GhengisConrad]

Buyoffs definitley not allowed, and the template can only be acquired by humanoids. I prefer to play feral non-humans.

Basically, anything that is an optional 'variant' is disallowed. I'm pretty sure that includes sneak attack fighter as well.

Totemist 2 does not grant entrance into TSL because it is a (Su) (not an (Sp) or spell).

If I was going to go human, I'd just go ahead and take Mark of Passage from Ebberon.