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Yogibear41
2013-12-17, 12:10 AM
Is there anyway to increase a DFA's breath weapons damage without meta-breath feats?

Is there anything that can make up for "lost casters levels" of DFA for breath weapon damage if I multi-class for a few level dips?

Are their any official DFA/arcane spell-caster dual advancement prestige classes? I know I could rework eldritch theurge but its abilities don't really fit the theme as well.

Pathfinder material is allowed as well as things from Dragon Magazine.

Falcon X
2013-12-17, 01:02 AM
Direct Quote from Dragon Magic, in the description of Dragonfire Adept:


"[When taking a class that specifies '+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting], A Dragonfire Adept taking levels in such a prestige class does not gain any other benefits of that level increase, but she does gain an increased caster level when using her invocations and increased damage with her breath weapon. Levels of prestige classes that provide +1 level of spellcasting effectively stack with the Dragonfire Adept's level to determine her breath weapon damage and save DC. She also gains new invocations at each prestige class level as though she had risen a level in the Dragonfire Adept Class."

So, basically RAW, as long as you're prestiging in a class that increases Arcane spellcasting, your Breath weapon damage is going to go up, as well as gaining new invocations.

It depends on what you are trying to dual-advance it with. Dragonfire Adept takes the place of an "arcane progression."
Druid=Arcane Hierophant (Technically Cleric too)
Cleric=Mystic Theurge (Yathrinshee and True Necromancer for evil)
Warlock=Eldritch Theurge

On the books, I see no casting classes that will advance you in both DA and Arcane casting. Just divine and warlock.
Which, btw, I really want to theurge warlock and DA now.

Yogibear41
2013-12-17, 01:07 AM
Theurging WA and DFA seems weird since eldritch blast and breath weapon more or less serve the same purpose. Really wanted to theurge sorcerer for that extra draconic flavor :smallsmile:


EDIT: I suppose maybe I could go spell to power erudite then go into cerebremancer, but I would eventually lose out on my erudite spell gaining capabilities.

Thurbane
2013-12-17, 01:37 AM
You could use Ultimate Magus to boost Wizard casting and breath weapon damage/invocation CL for DFA. You'd need actual spontaneous casting of some kind to qualify, though.

You could theurge Binder and DFA with Anima Mage, but again, would need actual spellcasting to qualify.

Unfortunately DFA is a class that simply does not multiclass well, and had no prestige classes specifically written for it (unlike the Warlock).

Thrawn183
2013-12-17, 02:46 AM
Is there anyway to increase a DFA's breath weapons damage without meta-breath feats?

Is there anything that can make up for "lost casters levels" of DFA for breath weapon damage if I multi-class for a few level dips?

Are their any official DFA/arcane spell-caster dual advancement prestige classes? I know I could rework eldritch theurge but its abilities don't really fit the theme as well.

Pathfinder material is allowed as well as things from Dragon Magazine.

I believe there is a magic item comependium item that increases your breath weapon damage.

Thurbane
2013-12-17, 03:01 AM
I believe there is a magic item comependium item that increases your breath weapon damage.
Dragon Spirit Cincture - I had one for my old Dragon Shaman. I thought it was DS only, but looking in the MIC, anyone can use it.

Gemini476
2013-12-17, 03:57 AM
Direct Quote from Dragon Magic, in the description of Dragonfire Adept:



So, basically RAW, as long as you're prestiging in a class that increases Arcane spellcasting, your Breath weapon damage is going to go up, as well as gaining new invocations.

It depends on what you are trying to dual-advance it with. Dragonfire Adept takes the place of an "arcane progression."
Druid=Arcane Hierophant (Technically Cleric too)
Cleric=Mystic Theurge (Yathrinshee and True Necromancer for evil)
Warlock=Eldritch Theurge

On the books, I see no casting classes that will advance you in both DA and Arcane casting. Just divine and warlock.
Which, btw, I really want to theurge warlock and DA now.
You can also use
Shadowcaster=Mystic Theurge OR Noctumancer
Binder=Anima Mage

I think, at least. I need to recheck what prerequisites those have.
And yeah, Warlock/Dragon Fire Adept/Eldritch Theurge does sound like it could be cool. I feel like you might need to have a lot of utility invocations, though, since you can't really use a Breath Weapon and Eldritch Blast on the same turn.

You'll probably get a LOT of invocations, though.

Yogibear41
2013-12-17, 02:08 PM
Does Dragon Spirit Cincture give me an extra d6 or increase the d6s to d8s? The way it is worded I am not sure. "your breath weapon damage is increased by one die"

Thurbane
2013-12-17, 09:31 PM
My understanding is that you add one die to your normal total number of dice (i.e. in the case of a DFA, +1d6).

Yogibear41
2013-12-17, 11:17 PM
Got ya :smallsmile:

MeeposFire
2013-12-18, 02:44 AM
Damage is not a strong suite for a DFA. They can get OK damage to many targets but where they really shine is control which oddly keeps them being relevant when other classes tend to start losing effectiveness. DFA invocations and feats seem to push you toward it and I would say embrace that instead. Granted boosting damage too isn't bad but I wouldn't worry about being THE heavy hitter because that likely won't be you unless the other characters don't try.

Xuldarinar
2013-12-18, 03:12 AM
Just gonna put this out there.

I wish there were an official way, without further dips, to theurge DFA with Shadowcaster.

You can advance both via Mystic Theurge or Noctumancer, so long as you also get 2nd-level arcane spells somehow, but beyond that there really isn't anything for it.


Shadowcaster 3/(Arcane Spellcasting Class) 3/Dragonfire Adept 1/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 3

Effectively: Shadowcaster 16, Dragonfire Adept 14, (Arcane Spellcasting Class) 3.

Thats the best one can do. Now, granted if there were a dedicated one you'd be looking at effectively SC 15/DFA 15, but at least it would likely have abilities that would help integrate the two.

MeeposFire
2013-12-18, 03:22 AM
Just gonna put this out there.

I wish there were an official way, without further dips, to theurge DFA with Shadowcaster.

You can advance both via Mystic Theurge or Noctumancer, so long as you also get 2nd-level arcane spells somehow, but beyond that there really isn't anything for it.


Shadowcaster 3/(Arcane Spellcasting Class) 3/Dragonfire Adept 1/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 3

Effectively: Shadowcaster 16, Dragonfire Adept 14, (Arcane Spellcasting Class) 3.

Thats the best one can do. Now, granted if there were a dedicated one you'd be looking at effectively SC 15/DFA 15, but at least it would likely have abilities that would help integrate the two.

Without looking at the requirements closely you could do it if you play a halfling. The Nosomotic surgeon (name is probably wrong) from Dragonmarked will allow you to overcome the spellcasting problem as it allows you to cast inflict spells at the level of your used invocation (for example if you use an invocation that is a 1st level spell like ability you could cast inflict light wounds as a spell).

Shadowcaster3/DFAX/NoSurgeon1/Noctumancer10/etc

You might need a couple more levels of DFA to make it work depending on the exact nature of the prerequisites.

Gemini476
2013-12-18, 06:59 AM
Just gonna put this out there.

I wish there were an official way, without further dips, to theurge DFA with Shadowcaster.

You can advance both via Mystic Theurge or Noctumancer, so long as you also get 2nd-level arcane spells somehow, but beyond that there really isn't anything for it.


Shadowcaster 3/(Arcane Spellcasting Class) 3/Dragonfire Adept 1/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 3

Effectively: Shadowcaster 16, Dragonfire Adept 14, (Arcane Spellcasting Class) 3.

Thats the best one can do. Now, granted if there were a dedicated one you'd be looking at effectively SC 15/DFA 15, but at least it would likely have abilities that would help integrate the two.
Beyond the Nosomatic Surgeon (which I need to look up, it sounds interesting), going Shadowcaster 3/(Wizard 1 w/ Precocious Apprentice OR Spontaneous List Caster w/ Versatile Spell OR the same but Sorcerer + Heighten)/DFA 1/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 5 works.
That gives you effectively Shadowcaster 18, Dragon Fire Adept 16, and Beguiler or whatever 1.

Elven Domain Generalist w/Sanctum Spell or Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer might also be able to do it, but both are horribly cheesy and the first gives you 9ths while the second either needs an additional template or delays Noctumancer until level 7.

Two 9th level Mysteries and one Dark Draconic Invocation, basically. It's a pretty decent Theurge, all told, and I think that the At-Will nature of Invocations covers the big weakness of the Shadowcaster well.

Chronos
2013-12-18, 09:18 AM
There's a feat from Dragon magazine (issue 313) called Power Surge, that should be the second feat taken by every dragonfire adept if allowed (the first is, of course, Entangling Exhalation, but you already knew that). Every round, you can choose one of three options: Increasing the save DC of your breath by +1, increasing the damage by +1 per die, or increasing the duration by 50%. The "cost" is that you can't use it again for a round, but unless you're getting extra standard actions from somewhere, you couldn't anyway, so that doesn't matter. Better than that, even: That means that your breath weapon now has a cooldown measured in rounds, and so it qualifies you to take and use metabreath feats.