[PF] Natural Armor Question, opinions on skinwalker race, and crossblooded sorcerer

[Laniius]

So, I'm building a Tiefling Dragon Disciple. I was going to go for the Scaled Skin alternate racial trait for thematics (I kind of want some sort of reptilian look before I get dragon disciple levels).

But, does the +1 natural armor from that stack with the natural armor boost that Dragon Disciple gets?

[WbtE]

Yes. The Dragon Disciple's "Natural Armor Increase" ability states that it increases any NA that the character already has.

[grarrrg]

So, I'm building a Tiefling Dragon Disciple. I was going to go for the Scaled Skin alternate racial trait for thematics (I kind of want some sort of reptilian look before I get dragon disciple levels).

But, does the +1 natural armor from that stack with the natural armor boost that Dragon Disciple gets?

Yes and no.
Natural Armor bonuses never stack, unless they explicitly say they do.

Dragon Disciple says it do(es):
"a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character's existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table: Dragon Disciple. These armor bonuses stack."

So yes, it would work.
The "no" part is due to Draconic Bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/draconic-bloodline). At 3rd level you get a +1 Natural Armor from your Bloodline, so Dragon Disciple will stack with one of these, and the other will be worthless.
Since the Draconic Natural Armor slowly scales with level, your racial armor bonus will be utterly pointless.

[Laniius]

Fair enough.

I also just noticed that the base racial trait that scaly skin replaces is better anyway.

fire, cold, acid resist 5 looks better than +1 nat armor and single element resist 5 to me. I guess my natural scaliness will have to come from dragon sorcerer 3.

[Laniius]

Not worth making a new thread, but what are folks' opinions on the Skinwalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/skinwalkers-10-rp) race?

[grarrrg]

Not worth making a new thread, but what are folks' opinions on the Skinwalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/skinwalkers-10-rp) race?

After a quick read, it looks overly complicated.

Also, feel free to edit the Title of the thread.

[Aurenthal]

I'd say that the Skinwalkers are bad for a Sorcerer, when they are in shapechange they get -4 cha and wis, and I understand this will limit your daily allotment of spells while you are shapenchanged. However, for almost all of the other classes it seems like a good race.

[TiaC]

I'd say that the Skinwalkers are bad for a Sorcerer, when they are in shapechange they get -4 cha and wis, and I understand this will limit your daily allotment of spells while you are shapenchanged. However, for almost all of the other classes it seems like a good race.

-4 on Charisma checks I think.

Fanglords do get good skill modifiers and some nice Bestial Features. Nightskulks aren't great for this build, but Distraction is totally overpowered for players.

[grarrrg]

I'd say that the Skinwalkers are bad for a Sorcerer, when they are in shapechange they get -4 cha and wis


-4 on Charisma checks I think.

The ability is a little poorly worded:
"While in bestial form, a skinwalker takes a –4 penalty on Charisma and Charisma-based checks when interacting with humanoids that lack the shapechanger subtype."

For starters, there is no WIS penalty.

And, if I'm reading it right (again, they could have worded it better), you actually get a net -6 on interaction with humanoids.

You get a -4 penalty on Charisma.
And a -4 penalty on Charisma-based checks with humanoids.

[Laniius]

The ability is a little poorly worded:
"While in bestial form, a skinwalker takes a –4 penalty on Charisma and Charisma-based checks when interacting with humanoids that lack the shapechanger subtype."

For starters, there is no WIS penalty.

And, if I'm reading it right (again, they could have worded it better), you actually get a net -6 on interaction with humanoids.

You get a -4 penalty on Charisma.
And a -4 penalty on Charisma-based checks with humanoids.

That's correct! However, I was going to do this with a crossblooded sage/draconic sorcerer (draconic for purposes of dragon disciple). And the Scaleheart heritage of Skinwalker (gets a +2 int when shifted).

I'm honestly just interested in people's opinions on the race as a whole though.

Edit: And while I'm at it, I'm interested in people's opinion on the crossblooded archetype for dragon disciple, mixing with elemental. Draconic bloodline gets +1 damage per die on spells of their energy type. A copper dragon bloodline looks cool, but there's very few acid spells.

Crossblooding with elemental bloodline, I can get more advantage out of the draconic boost to spell damage. I'm not going to be a full caster anyway, so the loss of 1 spell known per level doesn't seem to hurt as much.

Also, I'll get to mix and match bonus spells to make up for the loss of the spell known (you lose 1 spell known per level, not slots).

Unless I'm barking up the wrong tree?

[TiaC]

The ability is a little poorly worded:
"While in bestial form, a skinwalker takes a –4 penalty on Charisma and Charisma-based checks when interacting with humanoids that lack the shapechanger subtype."

For starters, there is no WIS penalty.

And, if I'm reading it right (again, they could have worded it better), you actually get a net -6 on interaction with humanoids.

You get a -4 penalty on Charisma.
And a -4 penalty on Charisma-based checks with humanoids.

The discussion thread clarifies it to be a -4 penalty on Charisma checks and Charisma-based checks.

[Laniius]

The discussion thread clarifies it to be a -4 penalty on Charisma checks and Charisma-based checks.

Do you have a link?

[TiaC]

Do you have a link?

This post (http://paizo.com/products/btpy91dq/discuss&page=10?Pathfinder-Player-Companion-Blood-of-the-Moon#484) would seem to make that clear.

[Spore]

The discussion thread clarifies it to be a -4 penalty on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks.

There, I clarified it for you. I don't think there are any casting related checks involved, much like a Circlet of Persuasion helps you woo that npc bard you've been flirting with, but doesn't give you a +3 bonus on your spell DCs.

[TiaC]

There, I clarified it for you. I don't think there are any casting related checks involved, much like a Circlet of Persuasion helps you woo that npc bard you've been flirting with, but doesn't give you a +3 bonus on your spell DCs.

Concentration checks might be included though.

[Psyren]

PF Shifter? *makes mental note to read Blood of the Moon.*

[Laniius]

PF Shifter? *makes mental note to read Blood of the Moon.*

Looks like, pretty much what the shifter should have been, aside from some difficult wording.

They can shift a certain number of times per day, but stay shifted as long as they want. Hence the massive drop to Charisma while shifted, I guess, to keep things balanced (at least in Paizo's opinion, I've not crunched the numbers).

You can go the regular skinwalker route and choose where to put your physical bonus each time you shift, or go one of the heritage routes and have set bonuses. You can decide whether you want claws, darkvision, or a nat armor bonus for the regular skinwalker. The other heritages have other options.

If I was going to play one I'd likely do so with a race that already had a bite or claws, or take 2 levels of ranger for aspect of the beast to have always-on claws. That's just me though.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Looks like, pretty much what the shifter should have been, aside from some difficult wording.

They can shift a certain number of times per day, but stay shifted as long as they want. Hence the massive drop to Charisma while shifted, I guess, to keep things balanced (at least in Paizo's opinion, I've not crunched the numbers).

You can go the regular skinwalker route and choose where to put your physical bonus each time you shift, or go one of the heritage routes and have set bonuses. You can decide whether you want claws, darkvision, or a nat armor bonus for the regular skinwalker. The other heritages have other options.

If I was going to play one I'd likely do so with a race that already had a bite or claws, or take 2 levels of ranger for aspect of the beast to have always-on claws. That's just me though.

Although its not been said as intended, most people I've talked to think that allowing a skinwalker to count as the lycanthrope alternative requirement for Aspect of the Beast isn't very unreasonable. I at least allow it as a house rule. Though I am not sure I would "waste" a feat on something I can have in most combats anyway.