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View Full Version : Divine casters are powerful but are they fun to play?



Scalenex
2007-01-17, 02:05 AM
Are clerics fun to play. My group of gamer's doesn't like cleric much. We recognize the value of clerics because their healing powers are all but required to adventure. All they seem to do in our games is heal people. I know, we know, that clerics can do other things, but if they don't heal, people die.

We usually take turns playing the cleric viewing it as a mild chore. My last game which I ran, I provided an DM controlled PC to provide the clerics role. My group is more concerned with doing cinematic things than overall power and there seems to be a bias towards fighter/mages but the only class that is consistently absent of being chosen is cleric.

I guess I should clear up the fact that I am using a broader term of class in this case. Fighter/Ranger/Paladin/Barbarian arguably fill the same role, as do Wizard/Sorcerer as well as Bard/Rogue and Druid/Cleric (Monk straddles multiple categories, kind of like Bard although I kept them with Rogue like 2nd ed did). Assume druid and cleric interchangeable for discussion purposes here. I suppose the need to fill the basic four roles could be a discussion in and of itself "Does your group work on building an effective team or do they just play what they feel like playing?" but someone else can put a thread up for that if they care enough to discuss.

Hario
2007-01-17, 02:14 AM
Clerics are fun to play if you don't mind playing heal bot sometimes, but for RPing aspects of priests of gods isn't bad either. They are way overpowered at times. For most people they are fun, though some it may not be so much fun say the people who only play raging barbarians persay, but clerics with the right setup can be so much more powerful than fighters and wizards.

TheThan
2007-01-17, 02:25 AM
I generally dislike clerics and I try to influence my pcs to not play them. I don’t like them because they’re really powerful, its just I simply don't like them, they’re just not my cup o' tea. I even tried playing one, couldn’t stand it, so yeah.

As for clerics I haven’t had the opportunity to try one but one of these days I will.

Jack_of_Spades
2007-01-17, 02:39 AM
They CAN be fun, but it takes work. Plus, you have to count on your partners being able to last a couple rounds without you.

It's very satisfying to play a Cleric of Kord at 15th level. You buff yourself up with your arsenal of buffs. Then you full attack while using your domain power. That'll shut the barbarian when he wants to arm wrestle. You also get some decent magic to help the wizard preserve his big guns.

There's of course always the druid.
I'm a magic gorilla! Flameblast! Heal!

Replacement
2007-01-17, 03:20 AM
Just pick up some wands of cure light. It really takes the strain off of a party that tends to be careless.

Tor the Fallen
2007-01-17, 03:41 AM
Yeah, tell the party to chip in for a couple wands of cure light wounds, and let them buy their own damn pots of cure serious.

Then patch them with a wand after a fight.

Thomas
2007-01-17, 03:47 AM
Clerics aren't healers, they're tanks. You can do the healing after the fight. (Or play a Neutral cleric who inflicts. Take that, losers.)

Our parties don't fight in 20'x20' rooms, so the cleric couldn't reach other PCs in a round or two to heal them anyway; everyone takes care of their own healing during combat. Between fights, we use a wand of cure x wounds.

Dareon
2007-01-17, 05:00 AM
You can have a great time with a cleric, especially if they're not the traditional holy warrior or "Oh, you're hurt? Here..." type.

Example: Dark Sun is a campaign setting without gods. Clerics instead worship elements and specific paraelements. I've created a fire cleric. Complete pyromaniac. Has a very soft, breathy, rapid laugh, will burn practically anything the party doesn't need. Leaving a hut whose occupant has died for whatever reason? "Are we done here? *twirls a candle between her fingers*" Enemies using nothing but clubs? "Oh, goodie, I love it when they bring their own pyrewood."

Now, if she runs into something with fire resistance, she's a little less effective, but she'll just figure she needs to use MORE FIRE. She doesn't even actually worship fire, she just likes burning things. A power on the plane of fire noticed, and now she burns things better.

It helps if your party members don't mind you not acting like a buff- or heal-bot.

Thomas
2007-01-17, 05:37 AM
Our Dark Sun cleric was a silt cleric. Healing? Fuhgeddaboudit! He was all about inflicting pain and dealing damage. I liked the guy.

Roderick_BR
2007-01-17, 05:45 AM
Myself, I play clerics almost like I play paladins, more the "good boy" type. I'm usually the voice of reason in my group, so people say it fills the role perfecly.
For fun, it depends all in how you play it. I play mostly the supporter kind. I stay behind the fighters keeping them going with buffs and heals. I rarely get in fights myself, so I don't unbalance things much.
Plus, it's fun to play "god's wrath" when an NPC pisses you off. Once I made a long winded speech before using Destruction in the villain, after the fighters softened him.
Seriously, powergaming is fun just for a while. After that, it gets boring. I play more for flavor.

Leush
2007-01-17, 06:29 AM
I don't play clerics. Pfft. Grovel at the heels of the gods for your power and folow their every whim like a lapdog. Pffft!! In fact, if the party needs a healer, the bard with CLW wands will do just as well.

Other than that- sometimes playing a powerful class is fun, but as they say, it gets to the point where you're ashamed of yourself for doing so. So no, I can't have fun playing a divine caster. (Paladin is another matter...)

Matthew
2007-01-17, 06:49 AM
I like Clerics. Druids, not so much. Even so, the fun of a character is more in its personality than its mechanics.

Ambrogino
2007-01-17, 07:09 AM
I really enjoy playing strongly religious (or conflicted) characters, and Cleric falls into that nicely. Not to say every devout character has to be a cleric, or even every cleric has to be devout, but it can be a nice hook to hang the rest of a character concept around. Since 3.0 meant clerics don't have to solely memorise healing spells for effectiveness I've found their flexibility (that was always there, but wasn't always seen as much) to be a wonderful thing.

That said the current game I'm running has no clerics and it's perfectly easy to get by on wands and potions as long as there's reasonably spaced downtime to make or buy them.

AmoDman
2007-01-17, 07:21 AM
I don't get it...what isn't fun about playing a cleric? (as opposed to say...bog standard fighter, arcane magicer, ferocious barbarian, etc.) You're connection to the Divine can be whatever you want it to be. It's still as varied a character as any, but with a divine influence somehow (Priests? Who says all clerics are priests?). Druids are more restricting as nature whores...but you can still have fun with that.

p.s. Paladins? Why? Just play another cleric.

p.p.s. Anyone ever played an all cleric game? I think that sounds funny...

Matthew
2007-01-17, 07:24 AM
Um, because you want to play a Paladin?

Thomas
2007-01-17, 07:28 AM
Um, because you want to play a Paladin?

Or for the Charisma synergy of divine grace, Divine Might, Divine Shield, and Snowflake Wardance, with Initiate of Milil and Devoted Performer...

clericwithnogod
2007-01-17, 08:11 AM
It depends on your group and DM a lot, but I enjoy the one I'm playing now as much as any character I've played. He fills the role of healer well enough, fights really well and can chip in with a useful spell now and then.

If there is a 5-person party and a DM, the DM is controlling about 50% of the actions and each character 10%. Ideally, each character in a party should get to do something fun and meaningful as often as possible on their turn.

More of the cleric's actions than any other class are less fun (healing, buffing, removing adverse conditions) than what other characters get to do. In return, clerics have the ability to cast or fight effectively on the rest of their turns. So when the opportunity is there to do something fun, there's a good chance the cleric will be effective at it.

Despite what people say, clerics really don't fight as well as a fighter and cast as well as a wizard in practice in game situations. But, feats, domains and prestige classes (if any) can push the cleric to be more effective one way or another and get it pretty good at fighting or casting.

Using wands to take some of the burden off the cleric and making sure other PCs have a couple potions for emergencies will make up a bit for the spells clerics have to cast to fix ability damage, disease, blindness and whatnot, but clerics usually have a hard time getting to use their full complement of spells for what they would like.

If you're stuck with a "clerics are overpowered" or "clerics should just be healers" nerfing DM,the cleric's player will likely be miserable. Clerics have the ability to fight and cast well to ensure that the player can do something fun and meaningful on his turn. Removing the cleric's ability to fight or cast non-healing spells well means fewer opportunities to do something fun. Making the cleric less effective at fighting and casting means his actions don't actually matter...kind of like a bard.

Tormsskull
2007-01-17, 08:21 AM
It depends on how you define 'fun'. I think clerics can be a blast to play. Especially in a heavy roleplaying game where the rest of the party is basically worshipping the ground you walk on because you keep saving their butts. I've never tried to build a 'melee' cleric who's focus is to use all of their abilities on combat, but I've heard people say that is fun to play as well.

Orzel
2007-01-17, 08:38 AM
Divine casters are fun to play. Divine casters get the most love when you win. A smart DM can get over the divine caster's power though. You still are in a party. You still need time to buff. You still have little skills to use. You still lack the combat expertise feat tree.

"Your mace falls to the ground."

Raum
2007-01-17, 08:52 AM
It's all in how you play the character. If you play a simple heal bot, it's about as fun as an arcane caster doing nothing but buffing. But both divine and arcane casters are capable of much more.

ken-do-nim
2007-01-17, 09:00 AM
I'm retiring my monk for the next adventure and I am getting to play a favored soul instead, and I am psyched! I think f.s. will be a blast. But then again, I think any full spellcaster is a blast. I like to have options. I don't really mind healing others, either, but my f.s.'s healing options are somewhat limited.

I am dying to play a druid. I love summoning, and controlling a gazillion pieces on the board (and naming my frequent summons, and giving them personalities, etc.)

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-17, 11:07 AM
I like clerics. I am currently playing a Vow of poverty/ vow of peace cleric who tries his best to convert everyone they meet. He succeeded in converting the parties barbarian. I also played a Barbarian 1 Cleric X I played him as a savage shaman type he was a lot of fun as well.

MrNexx
2007-01-17, 11:20 AM
ITamhgoingitoscall everyonephereoasliartand sayithatsthere isano possiblelway foriaedivine fcasterntooberfund. Theyiaregalwaysnaohorriblersloge. IYou areaalwaysmstuck lbeingytheihealbotnandgnever getntoohavewany fun. Itfisnaovortexrofdsuck.

krossbow
2007-01-17, 11:27 AM
They are awsome as long as the party doesn't expect you to be the healing bitch.


"I just killed five orcs in 5 rounds guys! Hah, aren't I useful?"

"Shut the hell up and use your spells to heal us B****!"






Clerics are great if played as dominant, imposing people.
________
MERCEDES-BENZ FINTAIL SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Fintail)

Nahal
2007-01-17, 03:04 PM
I always wanted to play a cleric or druid. I don't mind the whole healing whore bit so long as I get a flamestrike or some other bit of fun in here and there.

Druid could be fun for the whole "raar, I'm a bear!" thing, even if they lose out a bit on the healing and spell selection. Something about stoneskin + animal companion + dire bear sounds like fun.

Indon
2007-01-17, 04:12 PM
I've played a couple clerics, and one of my favorite character concepts is the negative neutral cleric; a Neutral cleric who rebukes undead and spontaneously casts harm spells. It not only allows you to be a great healer, because you can memorize more utility heal spells like Restoration and leave the damage to your spontaneous casting, but you can flay the flesh off of heretics _with a touch_.

I'm a big fan of flesh-flaying.

potatocubed
2007-01-17, 04:36 PM
I hate playing clerics, and so does my group. We don't mind favoured soul or druid, though, so I can't quite put my finger on why.

I think that it's to do with the extreme difficulty in differentiating your cleric from everyone else's. They all wear full plate, so it's difficult to adopt a distinctive mode of dress. They usually all use a blunt weapon and a crossbow. They all have the same spell list, which they use in the same way (buff buff, heal heal). Two domains are not enough to customise with. They all have the same schtick - i.e. serve whichever god...

It's like... they just don't have enough options. You get to pick your god and that's more or less it. You can't even really customise with skills because you get so few points. The prestige classes don't help, since they're pretty much all variations on the theme of 'wear lots of armour, heal, buff, hit people with sticks'. (With a couple of notable exceptions - entropomancer, for example.)

Druids, on the other hand, are awesome. Even without the cheese (which I only vaguely understand) they're great fun.

Brauron
2007-01-17, 04:38 PM
I've created a fire cleric. Complete pyromaniac. Has a very soft, breathy, rapid laugh, will burn practically anything the party doesn't need. Leaving a hut whose occupant has died for whatever reason? "Are we done here? *twirls a candle between her fingers*" Enemies using nothing but clubs? "Oh, goodie, I love it when they bring their own pyrewood."



In the world my DM has created, the gods are frequently tied to elements. There is a god of fire, god of water, god of earth, god of air, god of time, god of death, and god of the sun. We just fought a Fire Cleric. I thought he'd be a nasty opponent to fight, but I dropped him in one round...

But now I want to play one at some point.

axraelshelm
2007-01-17, 04:51 PM
a the holy man a realy want to play lawful evil cleric at one point but our group play heros so i don't get to play them. A cleric of Orcuss would do me i'll turn lich when i finished corrupting the elven forest and enslaved it's people by force marrying the princess, which i'll make into a powerful undead to help me rule. sigh.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-17, 05:57 PM
I'm currently playing a cleric in a PbP game on these boards, and it's great fun. I've created a sect of his God's for him to follow, making him more than "just another priest", and have agreed to tailor an existing PrC for him to use (the "Seeker of the Misty Isle" class from CD - but my guy's a human, searching for an almost mythical city lost in a desert). I've gotten a great few throw-away phrases using the God's theme, and (for no mechanical benefit) changed many spell/item thematics to mimic those more fitting of his Patron's powers.

His personality is of course my own creation, and is not defined by his faith. He has plenty of combat options and is great fun! Remember, being a cleric needn't be as limiting as many people think.

Indon
2007-01-17, 07:04 PM
Well, clerics can dedicate themselves to ideaologies rather than deities, so you can differentiate yourself that way.

For instance, my neutral cleric was an adherent of Law, as in the alignment. (He was LN, of course)

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-17, 07:08 PM
Try playing a cleric with an overly zealous and seemingly backwards morale code. I don't mean the classic, easy stuff like adhering to some basic scriptures as though you were some paladin, I mean stuff like Superman on those absolutely hilarious covers from old comics (see www.superdickery.com for details).

"Gah! Cleric! Please, I'm going to die! Please save me!"
"Not until you've learned your lesson about proper hygeine, fighter!"

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2007-01-17, 07:11 PM
Clerics being tanks and such really depend on the build of the person playing it. Heck if you get into things, so can a wizards. I know someone who makes a mean battle mage. Clerics do a lot more than healing. For instance, clerics are great to have around if you are going to be facing lots of undead, and there are many PrC's for all builds of clerics out there. That, and having a caster that can spontaneously cast is a real plus. Being a cleric also doesn't equate to being good. There are evil deities, and thus evil clerics running around. Quite frankly, a cleric is one of the most versatile classes.

Toliudar
2007-01-18, 04:06 AM
The only thing that sets divine casters apart is a passionate belief in something larger than themselves. The plate armour, the goody-two-shoes archetype, the stand-back-and-heal strategy - none of these are hardwired into the cleric.

I LOVE playing clerics. My astonishingly-optimistic-in-the-face-of-all-evidence dwarf. The too-stupid-for-words-but-full-of-folksy-wisdom hillbilly. The scheming cloistered cleric of Wee Jas, who would sooner plunge a dagger into her own chest than enter melee. My halfling-raised-by-gnomes cleric/rogue inventor. My "Hulk Smash" cleric of Gruumsh.

My only regret about the cleric class is that the few skill points and class skills makes it harder to customize their approach. But sacrificing one level to multi-class usually gives a specific flavour without nerfing too hideously.