Cyst Optimization

[TheCrowing1432]

So, I just got done making a Dread Necromancer for a campaign. I made him based on minionmancy.

As I was looking through Heros of Horror I spotted the Cyst Spell line, I didnt use it on the Dread Necro and have no plans to, but I think I might make one later on.


The problem is, I cant see how...feasable it would be. I mean I cant go around touching random people and implanting cysts (I mean I could but it would take a long time and a lot of spells and its generally not a good idea to be in the front lines touching things.)

I suppose I could mage hand it, but im not sure.


Anyway, whats a good way to make use of these things? Or are they useless?

[Know(Nothing)]

I looked at those for expanding the DN's spell list, but there are better ways. Might make for an interesting villain or sub-villain, though. Keep it in mind for when you DM next?

[lsfreak]

They're pretty bad for a kick-in-the-door style campaign. But for a lower-intensity campaign they can be great. Shaking people's hands, a bustling market, the line to get out or in a door for a weekly religious gathering, and so on can all be opportunities to deliver your cysts for later use. Especially if the setting of the campaign is local and you're dealing with the same city or small kingdom for the entirety of the campaign, rather than an empire- or continent-spanning (or bigger) campaign where individual localities only really exist for the few sessions the PCs are present.

[PurpleSocks]

Works better in a city based campaign or any campaign where you deal with the same npc's and you don't mind being fairly evil.

As a touch spell you can cast them and hold the charge, say until you shake the hand of someone important, or maybe one of your fellow PC's. (or if your level 8 get you imp familiar to go around invisibly implanting cysts's in significant people).

Tell your DM that during whatever downtime you have you basically go around spending all of your spell slots putting cysts into people.

As they're permanent barring spells that normal folk do not have access to, wait until your ready to unveil your evil plan and you have a bunch of dominated/exploding slaves who don't get a save.

---

They can work for a kick in the door campaign if you pre-cast them before combat, hold their charge indefinitely get your familiar (assuming your level 8) to deliver the the touch spell in round 1, and then cast another spell of the same line on your turn during round 1.

Although this is a bad use of the action economy.

[Piggy Knowles]

I once put together a Duskblade 13/Nar Demonbinder 2/Abjurant Champion 5 that could full attack channel Necrotic Cyst to infect a whole swath of enemies, then follow it up with Necrotic Termination to kill all of the infected and turn them into skulking cysts.

Optimal? No, not at all. There are way easier and more reliable ways for a Duskblade to kill a group of enemies. But it had style...

For a dread necro, I agree with the other posters - think of it more as a tool for intrigue and infiltration than for a way of killing or reanimating foes. As a DN, you don't get charm or dominate or scrying spells. Mother Cyst helps fill in those gaps.

[Baroknik]

I agree with what was posted here -- it is not a good choice in a kick-down-the-doors campaign. However, for intrigue it is stupendous! Also, it is insanely useful for NPCs moreso than PCs (since they have plenty of off-screen time where they can implement a network of cysts).

EDIT: Just thought of Arcane Spellsurge -- could be a fun combo!

[Segev]

Agreeing again on the more sandbox-type game being a better venue. Also, consider using your familiar's ability to deliver touch spells. Sleeping victims might wake to find a black cat on their chests, only to panic, light a lamp, and not find the cat anywhere (they have good hide checks).

And don't be shy about having your familiar deliver them to stray dogs and other animals in the streets. Necrotic Scrying means each of these becomes a mobile spy tower. And imagine the shock of foes when a rat explodes into viscera and deals damage to the area.

Might even be worth using Brew Potion, if you can slip the potions into people's drinking water and wine bottles and the like.

[Yawgmoth]

Might even be worth using Brew Potion, if you can slip the potions into people's drinking water and wine bottles and the like. Oh. My. God.

/saves to AmazingBBEGideas.txt

[The Insaniac]

Stuff

Alright then, I have some ideas, thank you.:xykon:

Wererat sorcerers using cyst spells...

[TheCrowing1432]

I think a beguiler would make a good choice for this.

They have concealed casting and are social folk.

[Baroknik]

Just realized that Double Wand Wielder could actually be fun with this build as well! Make it an artificer and you may be able to avoid having a big undead cyst living inside yourself!

Primary hand -- Cyst spell you want to do damage with
Secondary hand -- Necrotic Cyst (since it's the lower level, expending these charges faster ain't but a thang)

Full-round action that way to Cyst people up and cause the effect!

[Segev]

Just realized that Double Wand Wielder could actually be fun with this build as well! Make it an artificer and you may be able to avoid having a big undead cyst living inside yourself!

Primary hand -- Cyst spell you want to do damage with
Secondary hand -- Necrotic Cyst (since it's the lower level, expending these charges faster ain't but a thang)

Full-round action that way to Cyst people up and cause the effect!

If you don't have the Mother Cyst feat, you'd have to be UMDing the wand to emulate having the spell on your class list; taking the feat PUTS the spells on your list. Without the feat, they're not.

[sjeshin]

So, I just got done making a Dread Necromancer for a campaign. I made him based on minionmancy.

As I was looking through Heros of Horror I spotted the Cyst Spell line, I didnt use it on the Dread Necro and have no plans to, but I think I might make one later on.


The problem is, I cant see how...feasable it would be. I mean I cant go around touching random people and implanting cysts (I mean I could but it would take a long time and a lot of spells and its generally not a good idea to be in the front lines touching things.)

I suppose I could mage hand it, but im not sure.


Anyway, whats a good way to make use of these things? Or are they useless?

I haven't scanned the entire thread, but if you wanted to make use of the cysts, and it actually be effective in combat without much setup, just take reach spell and divine metamagic reach. I am making a cleric for a campaign I am running that will be utilizing this little trick.

Your minions defend you, and you ranged touch enemies with cysts. This alone will net you 1d6 extra damage on each encysted target from EACH undead goon that attacks them. Then you take into account that you can cast other cyst spells at them.

If I were to try to take advantage of cyst spells in combat, that is how I would do it.

[Segev]

ooh, good catch. I always forget about the extra 1d6 damage that just having a Cyst makes you suffer from undead attacks.