You find yourself...

[ReluctantDragon]

getting to play in a game that is tailored to just have fun. Optimization to a point but not TO or Tippyverse level. Batman Wizards not welcome, Mailman can stay at home, 9000 damage or infinite loops = multiple books to the head, from other players and DM alike.

Allowed sources is core races, all WOTC published books, not including Dragon Compendium.

Theme is good-aligned in nature, players are set up to be the Big Damn Heroes of the realm in a standard D&D setting(not setting specific) and you're at level 20.

What would you play? Assume a vacuum, where you don't have to worry about what else is being played.

[Spore]

Oh, so you mean a normal game?

I'd probably roll a Half Orcish (PF Half Orcs!) variant of Barbarian/Rogue. The thug who rounds up people for the boss. Preferably with a goblin, gnome or kobold cohort being the boss.

[Brookshw]

Throwing books is not optimal. Throw loosely bound bags of d4s. That way they're surrounded by caltrops and you have time to get away, or they spend time collecting the d4s to either clear a path to pursue or counterattack, likewise giving you time to flee. Throw a book and you've only armed your opponent.

Edit: and I'd gladly play.

[Greenish]

What's happening? What's the theme, the style, the focus of the game? What's the setting like? What level do we start, and where?

I mean, there is insufficient amount of information here to even begin forming a character.

[ReluctantDragon]

Oh, so you mean a normal game?



Bazinga!

Well played sir.

Just trying to set the situation is all. Some people play in high-optimization. Some don't.

[ReluctantDragon]

What's happening? What's the theme, the style, the focus of the game? What's the setting like? What level do we start, and where?

I mean, there is insufficient amount of information here to even begin forming a character.

Adjusted initial post to reflect this.

[OldTrees1]

A Ghost 3 Dread Necromancer optimized for having a large (but finite) pool of undead (Undead Leadership, Circle Magic, Chain Command Undead, ...) for RP reason. However most of that happens off screen and does not impact the game. On screen it would be a few undead, fear and the Charnel Touch/Touch of Healing.

Benevolent LN Worshiper of Wee Jas of course :smallbiggrin: (LN version for good campaigns like in the OP, Blue-Orange in evil campaigns since I can't pull off evil)

Ghost 3 Human Necromancer 1 / Dread Necromancer 8 / Red Wizard 5 / Dread Necromancer 3

[eggynack]

I have this "druid of highest etiquette" that I've been wanting to use. He's this wealthy businessman who got lost in the woods for a year, and instead of merely surviving, he gained a deeper understanding of the power of nature, and learned druidic magic. After that year, he returned to the civilized world, presumably to go on some sort of random adventure.

As for the build, the first step would be convincing the DM to allow me to take spell thematics, which wouldn't likely be all that difficult given how useless it is (especially here), and I would apply it to all of my summons, giving them top hats and monocles. The druid himself wears a fancy suit, the same one he wore when he entered the forest, kept in good shape by the fact that he always preps an instance of mending. the druid of highest ettiquette would take several of the cityscape ACF's, like iron constitution, voice of the city, and a couple of the trades in skilled city dweller.

There would hopefully be room for above average charisma and intelligence for a druid, to allow for a certain degree of face being. For feats, I'd likely go with my usual summoning focus, and for spells, I'd need to switch those around a lot, because a decent quantity of my motive for druid playing would be testing out some of my assumptions and assertions about spells and tricks I've yet to actually use. I mean, really, what does blizzard even do? That spell is frigging impossible to parse, with its steadily increasing BFC effect. Sure, I can guess how snowsight+obscuring snow plays out, but actually running the combo for a day would be even better.

Edit: Also, he'd be neutral good, at least partially because I suspect that of being the best druid alignment, and partially because I really want to stick exalted wild shape onto a build.

[Know(Nothing)]

Straight-up Druid. Seriously, no matter what the rest of your party ends up being, you can fill multiple roles at any time.

If it was allowed I might try out the unified summoning rules in one of the dragon mags-- I think it's based on CR? I can't remember the formula but it opened up the Summon Nature's Ally and Summon Monster lists massively, which could make things really fun.

[IAmTehDave]

Beguiler Shadowcraft Mage. I've wanted to try it out for a while, and I like spontaneous casters much more than prepared. It's a bit more feat intensive to get the build to work but more spells/day and you get a decent set of skills as a Beguiler.

[Greenish]

Level 20 is higher than I usually care to play. Obviously, hitting things with a stick has come to be of limited use.


I'd play a shifter druid 20 with VoP and all the shifter substitution levels (ditching animal companion and wild shape). VoP because shopping items for level 20 WBL is too much effort, druid because I could still function with VoP, and shifter sub levels to get rid of book-keeping heavy extras.

[Norin]

Uhm my list of what i want to play nowdays would fit in the criteria above:


Some sort of rogue'ish skillmonkey. Maybe a factotum\chameleon, a rogue\swordsage\Umbral Disciple, a bard with a bit of face\melee focus. Something along those lines.
A sorcerer build with more focus on fun spells and combos than metamagic mailman crazyness. Thinking something like sorc\sandshaper maybe with a touch of draconic blood and wings of X spells. Some fun with Arcane Spellsurge and fusion?
Psion... ive been wanting to play one for a while now. Time hop, massive telekinesis, jedi/sith powers, mind control, all the good things!
Maybe a bit too shady as far as "Good Aligned Hero" - But any type of necromancer character. Be it a wizard, dread necro or cloistered cleric. That's been on my to-do list for years.
Oh, and a well built elven generalist gish wuld be fun too. Bladesinger fluff with better crunch.

[Eaglejarl]

It is not even remotely optimal, but I have always had a weakness for paladins. Also, as a paladin you can believably build yourself with strong connections to the local nobility / royalty (or even be noble yourself), which can be useful in less combat-oriented games, and can open up a lot of good adventure hooks.

Also, Holy Avenger has been heavily nerfed since 2E (when it used to be an AMF, not just a Dispel), but it's still fairly shiny. You can also ask your DM if, "in order to balance you a bit more against the Tier 1 characters in the party" he's willing to houserule that the Dispel Magic can be used for targeted dispell and / or counterspell as well as area effect...or, if he's leery about that idea, ask if those uses can be possible but requirea full action instead of standard, or be 1x/turn as a standard. No matter what, this makes you a fairly effective spoiler in any fight against summoned beasties / created undead / people with buffs / etc. If the DM will add that houserule then you're good against spellcasters and magically armed / armored foes as well.

[Spore]

Bazinga!

Well played sir.

Just trying to set the situation is all. Some people play in high-optimization. Some don't.

I am most likely what my group would call a power gamer. But even I have my limits. If I had to crossclass my Bard with levels of Paladin or take up some hilariously unfitting feature, I'd pass. Like having a camel animal companion for an Arctic Druid. Or playing a Tiefling Paladin. It's like when people wear green with yellow in public. They make even be hot but this color scheme is revolting!

What I am trying to say is: For me, optimization and theming has to go hand in hand. Two of my group think theming has priority, even if a crappy character is the result. Two know at least what works together and what doesn't. I take your thread as a: "If you had a perfectly balanced roleplaying system, what would you choose." Classic MMOs have programmed me that way. If a priest is built to support, debuff and heal, then I shouldn't use it for melee dps. If a sage is best played as a single target wizard counter, then you should stat and skill it for that. Aion, Ragnarok Online, WoW, SW TOR, you name it. I am accustomed to classes having specific jobs.

But that doesn't have to keep me from roleplaying a well built rogue as a thug and the other as a charming womanizer.

[(Un)Inspired]

Hmmm well I can't saying I'm a fan of the phrase "Big Damn Heroes" or the implied grand funk DM railroad that I'm gonna have to ride around in as my characters destiny is already mapped out.

If I was put into one of these games... I guessed I'd play as an homage to Racer X from the old speed racer cartoons. He lost a race years ago and was so ashamed at his defeat that he abandoned his old life and chose to race under the secret identity of Racer X. Now he races, not to win, but to protect his younger brother Speed. If that not a hero I don't want to know what is.


So I guess expert 20? With SP into Profession: racer and bluff? It's not all about power people!

[tadkins]

A NG Gnome Artificer. Her backstory would be that she owns and operates a famous brewery somewhere in a dwarven kingdom (or aspires to create one, depending on what level they start at). She'd be something of a scientist/engineer type character with a skill investment in Cooking and Brewing. Would spend a lot of time crafting and experimenting with all sorts of things, whether it be magical items, alchemy, food and drink. Her role in the party would be to keep everyone well fed, happy and stocked in between combats.

[jaydubs]

Probably one of, in no particular order:

1. Druid
2. Arcane gish
3. Arcane/skillmonkey combination
4. Factotum
5. Artificer
6. Ranger/Scout Swifthunter
7. Warlock convinced he was a paladin
8. Bard based theurge
9. Archer cleric

But considering what I'm playing in other campaigns, probably:

1. Arcane gish
2. Bard based theurge
3. Factotum

[togapika]

Something something Shadow Genie...

[Seharvepernfan]

Celrak "Kickshaw" Lendaxaer, AKA "Quicksilver"
CG Male Human Scout 5/Transmuter 1/Unseen Seer 2/Ruathar 3/Swiftblade 9
HP: 155
Class Abilities: Skirmish +3d6/+1 AC, Trapfinding, Battle Fortitude +1, Uncanny Dodge, Fast Movement +10ft, Trackless Step, Evasion, Bat Familiar (Sahandrian, silver-winged bat), Word of Friendship, Low-light Vision, Elfwise, Star Blessing, Arvandor's Grace, Advanced Learning (Hunter's Eye), Swift Surge +2/+10ft/+1d6, Blurred Alacrity, Sudden Casting, Arcane Reflexes, Evasive Celerity, Fortified Hustle, Diligent Rapidity, Perpetual Options
Saves: F+17, R+27, W+25 (+1 when outside at night)
Stats: Str 18, Dex 26, Con 18, Int 26, Wis 8, Cha 12
Skills: Arcana 14, Architecture 14, Balance 22, Bluff 4, Climb 22, Concentration 11, Disable Device 27, Dungeoneering 14, Geography 14, Hide 30, Intimidate 4, Jump 22/30, Listen 25, Move Silently 30, Nature 16, Open Lock 12, Persuasion 4, Planar 14, Religion 10, Search 30/32, Sense Motive 26, Spellcraft 23/25/27, Spot 37, Survival 22/24/26/28 (+6), Swim 20, Tumble 27, Use Magic Device 18/20
Arcana 5, Architecture 5, Balance 11, Bluff 2, Climb 13, Concentration 6, Disable Device 16, Dungeoneering 5, Geography 5, Hide 16, Intimidate 2, Jump 9, Listen 18, Move Silently 16, Nature 5, Open Lock 1, Persuasion 2, Planar 5, Religion 1, Search 13, Sense Motive 17, Spellcraft 12, Spot 18, Survival 13, Swim 13, Tumble 16, Use Magic Device 11

256 Skill Points
Languages: Common, Elven, Sylvan, Auran, Draconic
Feats: Improved Initiative, Keen Intellect, Able Learner, Track, Weapon Finesse, Martial Study (Counter Charge) (B), Martial Stance (Step of the Wind), Expeditious Dodge (B), Alertness (B), Silent Spell (B), Mobility, Longbow Proficiency (B), Elven Courtblade Proficiency, Power Attack, Spring Attack (B), Darkstalker, Practiced Spellcaster, Telling Blow, Bounding Assault (B), Sidestep Charge
Flaw: Pathetic Charisma, Unenduring (Any effect that leaves you fatigued instead leaves you exhausted)
Spells Prepared: 4/7/7/7/6/4/3
0 - Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
1 - Shield, Alacrity (Accelerated Movement), Disguise Self, Infuse, Ray of Enfeeblement, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall
2 - Knock, Mirror Image, Detect Thoughts, Glitterdust, Fearsome Grapple, Hunter's Eye x2
3 - Haste x3, Protection from Energy, Dragonskin, Amethyst Aura, Water Breathing
4 - Greater Invisibility, Silent Nondetection, Aerial Alacrity, Dimensional Anchor, Voice of the Dragon, Dimension Door
5 - Silent Greater Invisibility, Break Enchantment, Xorn Movement, Swift Etherealness
6 - Greater Dispel Magic, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Disintegrate

Spellbook: (no ench/evo)
Spells prepared, plus the following:
1 - Grease, Protection from Evil, Detect Undead, True Strike, Ventriloquism, Eyes of the Avoral
2 - Obscure Object, Burning Sword, Marked Object, Wraithstrike, Blindness/Deafness
3 - Fly, Anticipate Teleportation, Unicorn Horn
4 - Burning Blood, Ray Deflection
5 - Dismissal, Teleport, Earth Reaver, Duelward, Lightning Leap, Spell Theft, Toxic Weapon, Transformation of the Deeps
6 - Antimagic Field, True Seeing, Opalescent Glare, Eyes of the Oracle, Prismatic Aura, Probe Thoughts, Starmantle
Items: Primary Melee Weapon: "Transcendence" (+5 Collision/Force Glassteel (http://the-elder-scrolls-skyrim.com/images/oblivion/renders/Weapons/Glass/LongSword.png) Courtblade (http://pics.myarmoury.com/AA_SwissSaber02_s.jpg), w/Lesser Crystal of Return), Oil Chamber, Wand Chamber (Wraithstrike)
Secondary Melee Weapon: "Elf-fang" +1 Warning Mithril Spiked Gauntlet, Wand Chamber (Keen Edges)
Ranged Weapon: "Starfall" (+5 Force Darkwood Mty Comp Longbow [+4]), Wand Chamber (Silent Image)
Ammunition: "Sidhewrath Arrows" (x50 +1 Anarchic/Holy/Fiendbane Darkwood Arrows), x100 Cold Iron Arrows
Secondary Ranged Weapon: MW Kith Net
Armor: "Mail of the Elflords" (+5 Twilight Feycraft Celestial Armor of Nimbleness) w/Forest Warden Shroud (made to resemble silken, aged copper dragon scales) & Lesser Crystal of Lifekeeping
Head: Headband of Int +6
Eyes: Goggles of Night
Neck: Amulet of Health +6
Shoulders: Elf Cloak (+5 hide)
Torso: Vest of Resistance +5
Wrists: Armbands of Might
Hands: Gloves of Dex +6
Ring: Ring of Protection +2
Ring: Ring of Counterspells (Greater Dispel Magic)
Waist: Belt of Giant Str +6
Feet: Elf Boots (+5 move silently)
Slotless: Green Face Tattoo (continuous Eyes of the Avoral), Luckstone (four-leafed clover in amber), Redcap Tooth, Opaque Smoky Black Prism Ioun Stone (+5 UMD)
Storage: Mages Haversack
Miscellaneous: Lens of Detection, Trollgut Rope, MW Thieves Tools, Climber's Kit, Spyglass, Hand Periscope, Tailored Elf-made Explorer's Outfit, Rubber Ball x15
Spellbook: Blessed Book
Staves: Staff of Travel (13th, Greater Teleport [costs 2 charges], Planeshift [costs 2 charges], x24)
Wands: Keen Edges (x25 charges), Lesser Vigor (x50 charges), Wraithstrike (x25 charges), Silent Image (x25 charges), Fly (x15 charges)
Potions: Elixer of Heal, Oil of Bless Weapon, Jump (9th), Remove Curse, Hide from Animals x5
Scrolls: Eladrin Form, Rope Trick (CL 10th), Duelward, Burning Sword
Spell Components Pouch:, Diamond Dust (250gp), Ruby (500 gp), x5 Ointments (1250gp), x5 Pixie Wing Dust (100gp)
Alchemical Items: Triple Weapon Capsule Retainer, Quickflame/frost/spark x3, Flask of Acid x3, Flask of Alchemists Fire x3, Scentbreaker x5, Antitoxin x3, Holy Water x3, Smokestick x5, Tindertwig x10, Flask of Alchemical Sleep Gas x3, Trollbane x5, Sunrod x3, Tanglefoot Flask x3, Thunderstone x3, Flash Pellet x3

Wishlist: pale green prism ioun stone, manual of quickness in action +5, gloves of fearsome grip

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=1062621

[ReluctantDragon]

I am most likely what my group would call a power gamer. But even I have my limits. If I had to crossclass my Bard with levels of Paladin or take up some hilariously unfitting feature, I'd pass. Like having a camel animal companion for an Arctic Druid. Or playing a Tiefling Paladin. It's like when people wear green with yellow in public. They make even be hot but this color scheme is revolting!

What I am trying to say is: For me, optimization and theming has to go hand in hand. Two of my group think theming has priority, even if a crappy character is the result. Two know at least what works together and what doesn't. I take your thread as a: "If you had a perfectly balanced roleplaying system, what would you choose." Classic MMOs have programmed me that way. If a priest is built to support, debuff and heal, then I shouldn't use it for melee dps. If a sage is best played as a single target wizard counter, then you should stat and skill it for that. Aion, Ragnarok Online, WoW, SW TOR, you name it. I am accustomed to classes having specific jobs.

But that doesn't have to keep me from roleplaying a well built rogue as a thug and the other as a charming womanizer.

Not trying to paint the picture of a 'balanced rpg' at all. I'm fully aware of the mess that 3.5 is. My conditions were based on High Op vs. what I consider 'normal'(kudos to you for pointing that out). This isn't meant to be a WIN Button game, but a game to have fun. If fun involves optimization, then optimize by all means. But also be aware that taking optimization into WIN Button levels will result in a character that can't be played.

Me?

I'd like to play a Wizard/Factotum/Swiftblade. Just for the fun.

Something with Hellbred as the race. Possibly Paladin. Possibly Hexblade. Maybe Duskblade...

Also, I've never been the player to play the Beatstick. Never played a Barbarian or Dungeoncrasher. That'd be something interesting.

[PlotPirate]

Probably a wizard. Not an extremely optimized god-like wizard though. More like a 100 year old good hearted, but senile fossil of man. Someone who loses track of things easily, gets distracted to often, doesn't seem to care extremely about his own life in danger. But when he finds his friends in danger, or when it really counts, he pulls through with amazing tactics, competency, and nigh invincible arcane power, then immediately goes back to being a bumbling old coot.

The type of character that most just overlook or don't care for much. But those close to him know that he'll be there when truly needed, or that if push comes to shove they can just point him towards a vile monstrosity insert some innocent person into the mix and then sit back and watch the show.

[ZX6Rob]

The first 20+ level game I ever played in, I rolled a full Druid 20, and I absolutely did not regret it for even an instant. The sheer amount of ways your can absolutely wreck someone's day meant that my biggest challenge was option paralysis. Stand on high and annihilate armies with spellcasting, shapeshift into an elemental and wade into melee, or simply sit back and allow my advanced animal companion to introduce a few choice front-liners to the feeling that cheese experiences when it's being grated? Oh, I have Natural Spell? Well, then, the answer is obviously all of these things at once.

My DM was pretty permissive, and very much into letting us feel like superheroes for the first few sessions. This was a great idea on his part; it let us really get a feel for our characters, giving us a few chances to understand how all the various options and abilities worked together. In later games, when we started facing real challenges, having a few "practice rounds" under our belts meant that we worked better as a team and knew how to leverage the universe-quaking power at our fingertips.

Other 20-level characters I've always wanted to play include:

Warblade - Regardless of the furious lack of optimization in this idea, I really wanted to play a Warblade with Superior Unarmed Strike who focused on the Stone Dragon school. A big, quiet lunk who punches pit fiends so hard that their skeletons fracture, that'd be a fun time!

Psion (Nomad) - This guy I wanted to build as a high-level "getaway driver" of sorts. He wouldn't be much for out-and-out combat, but he was going to be really sneaky and very skilled at getting into or out of places he shouldn't be. Lots of powers for zipping between planes and protecting himself from their effects once he got there. I had most of a build for him at one point, but the people on the boards here could help you put together that concept better than I could, anyway.

Fighter - I know, playing a straight 20 Fighter in 3.5 is dumb, but it's also one of my favorite classes. That being said, I built out a 20-level Fighter specializing in the greatsword that eventually ended up taking the Weapon Supremacy feat from PHBII, and as much as martial characters are supposed to stand in awe of the casters at high levels, I still think I'd have fun playing him.

Fun fact: I am super-bad at optimization, you guys!

[Zweisteine]

My ideas tend not to fit the goal of being the Good Heroes of the Realm, but I want to share.

Changeling Factotum 5/Cabinet Trickster 5/Chameleon 10

Pretend to be anybody!
Kalashtar* Telepath/Thrallherd/PrC(maybe).

My Thrall is a cleric who has two purposes. Pupose one is to persist shapechange into living breastplate, giving me a literal meatshield. The other use is free healing.

The trick to keeping that casual is simply not spamming other persisted buffs, and having high moral standards that conflict with the whole mind-control thing.


*Homebrew variant if possible

[Heliomance]

I'd be very tempted to try and sneak a GOD/Batman wizard under the radar, by doing the things the guides actually recommend as opposed to the things people think of when they hear GOD/Batman wizard - battlefield control and party buffing. I wouldn't steal the spotlight at all, rather I'd set it up to make my party unstoppable. Make sure the Rogue could always get their sneak attack by denying the enemies their dex bonus. Make sure the mooks are lined up in a nice debilitated row for the Fighter to cleave his way through with impunity. Enabling every kill, but taking none of them, making the rest of the party feel awesome.

That, or I'd take a sub-optimal concept and optimise the bajeesus out of it. Half the fun for me is building the character. I'm not going to put anything less than my best effort into building a strong character. But if I start with a weak chassis, that'll end up with something pretty decent but not horrific.

[Forrestfire]

I've got a long list of characters builds I want to try, but right now the one at the top is a Warlock/Binder theurge, for metamagic goodness through Anima Mage.


Warlock 1/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Hellfire Warlock 3/Legacy Champion 5 (advancing anima mage), using Precocious Apprentice and Improved Binding to get into Anima Mage early on.

Most of the time I'd be focusing on summoning and utility with vestiges, and in combat I'd pull out stuff like Twin Spell Invisible Eldritch Glaives, and other silly metamagic occasionally, and my party role out of combat would probably be a token CN teammate more loyal to his friends than the cause.

If the game went epic, I'd be looking forward to throwing around spheres of annihilation with that one epic vestige.

[Tim Proctor]

I like the know everything Bard.

[ZX6Rob]

I'd be very tempted to try and sneak a GOD/Batman wizard under the radar, by doing the things the guides actually recommend as opposed to the things people think of when they hear GOD/Batman wizard - battlefield control and party buffing. I wouldn't steal the spotlight at all, rather I'd set it up to make my party unstoppable. Make sure the Rogue could always get their sneak attack by denying the enemies their dex bonus. Make sure the mooks are lined up in a nice debilitated row for the Fighter to cleave his way through with impunity. Enabling every kill, but taking none of them, making the rest of the party feel awesome.

See, this is the kind of thing I wish more people would do with their god-killers. I used to play in a group with a fellow who would generally roll Cleric-Zilla all the time, and he always focused all of his spells and buffs on himself. Never helped anyone else hit things better or tried to work with the team, just showed off how he could beat down everything by himself. The one time we convinced him to use his powers for... well, "good" is a strong word, but for helping others, it was one of the best games we ever played. Folks get upset about optimization when you steal the show for yourself, but they'll carry you around on their shoulders if you steal it for them.

[Zweisteine]

If you're really, truly, seriously in it just for fun, this is the absolute best build you can have in core:

Human Barbarian/Bard/Cleric/Druid/Fighter/Monk/Paladin/Ranger/Rogue/Sorcerer/Wizard 2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/1/1

Just 'cuz.

[Hangwind]

Natural weredog (Lycanthrope template) swordsage with fully bought-off LA. +1 Strength +3 Dex +2 Con D/R 10/Silver and Iron Will for free. Might find a way to enhance my natural bite attack and focus on that for my progression.

[Seharvepernfan]

Natural weredog (Lycanthrope template) swordsage with fully bought-off LA. +1 Strength +3 Dex +2 Con D/R 10/Silver and Iron Will for free. Might find a way to enhance my natural bite attack and focus on that for my progression.

Is it worth the jokes your party members will be throwing at you?

[ben-zayb]

I haven't the opportunity to play something with so much blasphemous flavor as a Tenebrous Sublime Ur-Lyrist, so I'd go for that

Of course, that is if the DM relaxes the align,ment requirement. Worshipping dead gods isn't exactly evil in my book.

[Hangwind]

Is it worth the jokes your party members will be throwing at you?

Yes, yes it is. Especially since I would now have the ability to invisibly tear my enemies throats out with my teeth and teleport away with their vertebrae still in my mouth.

I imagine the jokes would...dwindle.

[Seharvepernfan]

Yes, yes it is. Especially since I would now have the ability to invisibly tear my enemies throats out with my teeth and teleport away with their vertebrae still in my mouth.

I imagine the jokes would...dwindle.

Awesome.sauce

[ReluctantDragon]

Is it worth the jokes your party members will be throwing at you?

*cough* YTMND *cough*

[The Trickster]

Shadowcraft mage is a personal favorite.

Although, a friend of mine played a character who learned adventuring from his fellow party members. That would be a cool idea to try as well. Basically, just take whatever class you think your character has been "using" for the previous level. Have you been particularly sneaky recently? Take rogue. Feeling brave and tough? Maybe a barbarian. Then, try and make the character work.

[AMFV]

getting to play in a game that is tailored to just have fun. Optimization to a point but not TO or Tippyverse level. Batman Wizards not welcome, Mailman can stay at home, 9000 damage or infinite loops = multiple books to the head, from other players and DM alike.


These are very different optimization levels. 9000 damage via infinite loops is not typically in the mailman's arsenal. And Batman wizard is completely a PO build intended to add utility to the party without stealing anybody's roles.

The Tippyverse is right out, that's definitely in what I would call functional TO. You're painting a picture where there isn't much understanding of exactly what practical optimization is.

The mailman will still not outdamage a good charger build, at least not with some TO tricks, his standing point is consistency of damage, he always deals damage, so he's not very likely to overshadow people at an actual game.


Allowed sources is core races, all WOTC published books, not including Dragon Compendium.

Theme is good-aligned in nature, players are set up to be the Big Damn Heroes of the realm in a standard D&D setting(not setting specific) and you're at level 20.

What would you play? Assume a vacuum, where you don't have to worry about what else is being played.

[/Quote]

I tend to roll Batman wizards if I don't know what the other people are playing, I don't step on any toes and it gives me room to be helpful in all situations, and to use creativity, which is probably my favorite aspect of the game.

I've played these in several games and have very rarely been accused of overshadowing the other players. When I am it tends to be for creative solutions to problems, rather than for raw power.

For example I recently played a one-shot from a PF adventure path, where I was able to avoid combat in all but one case almost completely. Using Disguise self, bluffing, and then finally using a pretty nifty trap where I put a tanglefoot bag on a rope bridge and then capsized it. Which is actually pretty sadistic come to think of it. That's the sort of thing that often gets me into trouble.

I tend to view optimization more in terms of what I consider "tacky" rather than overpowered. Which is very much a stylistic thing. For example DCFS is usually tacky, it tends not to add to roleplaying fluff in any significant way. But Otuygh Hole, which is arguably more powerful (Since gaining a feat for free is potent) is less tacky IMHO. It's more of a values judgement than anything else.