Warlock combined with Tome of Battle?

[Maeglin_Dubh]

I kinda want to play a ToB character in a friend's game, but I like the idea of splashing Warlock in there for lazer beams.

How would Swordsage combine with a Warlock? Figuring Dex-based.

[gorfnab]

Eldritch Claws feat or Eldritch Glaive invocation might work with ToB.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Not that well, honestly, unless you can talk your DM into adapting the Jade Phoenix Mage PrC-- Warlock just needs too much effort to keep his blast doing decent damage, and as a ranged touch attack strikes won't work with it. Eldrich Claws would work with ToB, but you'll lose a decent few initator levels qualifying. And most of the things Warlock can give you are easy enough to duplicate through maneuvers and stances, apart from flight.

If you want lasers, there are a handful of maneuvers in Desert Wind and Shadow Hand that'll do it for you-- Hatchling's Flame, Fan the Flames, Shadow Garrote, Firesnake, Dragon's Flame, Shadow Noose, Wyrm's Flame, and Inferno Blast all let you shoot energy everywhere.

[CombatOwl]

I kinda want to play a ToB character in a friend's game, but I like the idea of splashing Warlock in there for lazer beams.

How would Swordsage combine with a Warlock? Figuring Dex-based.

Badly. You wouldn't do either of them well.

Warlock is one of those classes that you really want to take up to high levels. At least level 13. Honestly aside from a two level dip in fighter for the bonus feats, or a level or two in binder for the ability score repair cheese, there's not much reason to multiclass warlock. Warlock 20 or Warlock -> Binder Dip -> Hellfire Warlock is really the two best routes.

[Manly Man]

On the other hand, if it's gestalt, you can go Crusader//Warlock for some minor Charisma synergy on top of incredible durability, and go to town by combining Eldritch Claws with your maneuvers. Swordsage//Warlock is great if, as you said, you're going for a Dex-based build (again, use Eldritch Claws, and go for Unarmed Swordsage for monk's damage progression).

However, I doubt that you'd be doing gestalt, so in all honesty, I'd go for Grod's suggestion and use the energy-based disciplines as a Swordsage. Desert Wind may be sub-par by Tome of Battle's standards, but it's still fun, and altogether usable, since you'll still have plenty of maneuvers to select from and prepare on the off chance that you fight an efreeti or red dragon.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Ok, so scratch the Warlock.

What would be the best way to go for an energy-style Swordsage? Primarily Desert Wind, I suppose?

We're starting at level 4.

[Rubik]

Ok, so scratch the Warlock.

What would be the best way to go for an energy-style Swordsage? Primarily Desert Wind, I suppose?

We're starting at level 4.I think you'll get more mileage out of the variant classes of the pyrokineticist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e) (specifically sonic or acid -- acid is the easiest to qualify for, with alchemical acid). Use your energy whip with maneuvers, and use boosts and stances to improve your bolt of [energy type]. You'll probably also want to look into the Psionic Shot and perhaps Greater Psionic Shot feats, though Aligned Attack and a greater chasuble of fell power would be cheaper, feat-wise, only requiring a single feat as opposed to three (Psionic Shot, Greater P.S., and Point Blank Shot). Plus, it works with melee and ranged both.

[JeminiZero]

What would be the best way to go for an energy-style Swordsage?
Arcane Swordsage? :smalltongue:

[Amphetryon]

Ok, so scratch the Warlock.

What would be the best way to go for an energy-style Swordsage? Primarily Desert Wind, I suppose?

We're starting at level 4.

Shameless self promotion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8991354&postcount=223)

[Tvtyrant]

Ok, so scratch the Warlock.

What would be the best way to go for an energy-style Swordsage? Primarily Desert Wind, I suppose?

We're starting at level 4.

If you are playing as a normal character you could get a wand of Thunderlance and use that with TWF for better damage than normal (your strength score when using it is 12+CL.) Huge weapon, lots of reach, dispels force effects.

If your are a gestalt I would suggest the same thing, but boosting CL through the roof. Reserves of Strength to break the strength cap on the lance, chaos mage and practiced caster to get your CL way up, metamagic on the lance like you wouldn't believe. You can have a pair of lances using a 27 str score at level 6 with some luck and a lot of build tweaking, and then use your tiger maneuvers to get off as many as possible in a round.

[MeeposFire]

Eldritch Claws feat or Eldritch Glaive invocation might work with ToB.

Claws yes (though it is Dragon Magazine content so it is not available at many tables) glaive no.

Glaive is not a weapon (despite the name) and is a full round action to use (not a full attack action). So for instance glaive does not work with Time Stands Still as that maneuver gives you 2 full attack actions and a glaive is not a full attack action (it is a full round action which is not the same). The mongoose line does not work with glaive as they require a weapon which eldritch glaive is not. No standard action strikes work with it either.

There might be a small subset that do work but they would be very rare (perhaps AoO type maneuvers).

[Big Fau]

Claws yes (though it is Dragon Magazine content so it is not available at many tables) glaive no.

Glaive is not a weapon (despite the name) and is a full round action to use (not a full attack action). So for instance glaive does not work with Time Stands Still as that maneuver gives you 2 full attack actions and a glaive is not a full attack action (it is a full round action which is not the same). The mongoose line does not work with glaive as they require a weapon which eldritch glaive is not. No standard action strikes work with it either.

There might be a small subset that do work but they would be very rare (perhaps AoO type maneuvers).

Is it though? The Glaive invocation says "as if wielding a reach weapon." It may be compatible with the Mongoose-line depending on DM interpretation.

[Amphetryon]

Is it though? The Glaive invocation says "as if wielding a reach weapon." It may be compatible with the Mongoose-line depending on DM interpretation.

It depends on whether you agree with the interpretation in (I believe) True_Shinken's melee Warlock handbook. From the evidence here, I'd say MeeposFire agrees with that handbook.

[aleucard]

As mentioned in this post, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16636304) I'm interested in this also. Very short version, I'm doing a Warblade dip either next level (6) or level 9 at latest, using MammonAzrael's Heritage Warlock (Demonic, though Ice-type rather than electric). I'm currently trying to find some good candidates for my other first maneuvers and stance, and maybe some worth taking a feat.

[Fax Celestis]

Shameless self promotion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8991354&postcount=223)

Additional shameless self-promotion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45205).

[MeeposFire]

Is it though? The Glaive invocation says "as if wielding a reach weapon." It may be compatible with the Mongoose-line depending on DM interpretation.

Context would seem to suggest that it is an indication for targeting as in you target enemies like using a reach weapon which you then hit with an eldritch blast.

I can see what you are saying about (use as a reach weapon" and that if somebody wanted to argue it we would probably not ever come to a satisfactory conclusion about it.

Granted you could use mongoose off of eldritch strike though you would only get EB damage on the standard action attack. Not sure that is worth much though.