How2Metamagic?

[Heliomance]

So I've never really got the hang of metamagic. It always seemed to me to be a waste. Sure, I could prepare that spell with a modifier, a few levels higher. Oooorrr... I could prepare a higher level spell. Higher level spell sounds better to me, really.

What am I missing? What is it about metamagic that makes it worth losing a higher level spell to cast a buffed lower level one?

[OldTrees1]

Remember that Swift action you get 1/turn that you never use? Quicken spell helps with that.

Still want more spells per turn? Twin/Repeat Spell can help with that.

You have a nice single target spell? Chain spell helps it hit everyone.

However in general Metamagic only gets good when you are selective and don't pay the price. (Aka take feats that reduce the price of using metamagic)

You do not need metamagic and metamagic isn't for everyone. However it does have its places.

[Tommy2255]

One of the advantages is flexibility. Some classes, like sorcerer, can only learn so many spells, so it's to their benefit to be able to do as many different things as possible with those spells. Also, there are some metamagic feats that do things you otherwise couldn't with any spell, like Quicken Magic, Silent/Still Spell, Delay Spell (with the exception of Delayed Fireball, which is it's own spell, but the metamagic version is actually a level lower and slightly different). Plus, there are many ways to make metamagic cheaper, which gives more power for lower level spell slots.

[Psyren]

So I've never really got the hang of metamagic. It always seemed to me to be a waste. Sure, I could prepare that spell with a modifier, a few levels higher. Oooorrr... I could prepare a higher level spell. Higher level spell sounds better to me, really.

What am I missing? What is it about metamagic that makes it worth losing a higher level spell to cast a buffed lower level one?

Rods. Also reducers as Oldtrees said.

[holywhippet]

One of the big (ie. crazy over powered) metamagic feats is persistent spell which makes any spell with a duration over instantaneous last for 24 hours. By itself it is less useful because it increases the spell level by 6 so you'd need to use a level 9 slight to persist a level 3 spell. If you are a class with the turn undead class ability though you can combine it with divine metamagic which lets you pay off spell levels with turn undead uses. This is a very potent combo, especially for spells that were only designed to last a very short time.

I've been trying to work out if you could fix a monk's BAB problem using a persistent wraithstrike spell. It's a tricky dilemma since the spell is arcane and divine metamagic only works on divine spell post errata. Casting an arcane spell as a divine spell can be handled via feat tax, but getting the spell without too many arcane and divine caster levels is a different matter.

[Urpriest]

Think about it like this:

Empowered Fireball: level*1d6*1.5 damage, up to 15d6
Cone of Cold: level*1d6 damage, up to 15d6

At any level before 15th, Empowered Fireball is stronger. And this is about as low-op as you can get.

[Silva Stormrage]

This build is a good example of how2metamagic http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1765181

[Pex]

The problem you may have, and I share, is one of emotion. It feels inefficient to use a lower level spell in a higher slot than use the normal higher level spell. You feel like you are missing out. You earned the ability to cast a 6th level spell. To cast an Empowered 4th level spell instead looks like a waste.

You need to convince yourself a metamagic spell is a spell of its new level. That Empowered 4th level is a 6th level spell. It doesn't have the DC, but that's not important here. You have to think that when you cast Empowered Enervation you are casting a 6th level spell.

There is also need to consider tactics. It's less important what spell you use than to accomplish whatever it is you needed to cast the spell. As long you are victorious, what difference does the spell level make? You are still the awesome spellcaster who defeats his foes with great magic.

[nedz]

It's about action economy.

Quicken and Persist are obvious, but lets take the lowly Fireball.

If you must use Fireball you can do 10d6 damage per round, so it takes you 3 rounds to pump out 30d6 fire damage.
If you were to use Empowered Fireball then you could do that in two rounds.

Obviously there are better spells and better metamagics, but the point remains.

If you are worried about using up your higher level spell slots then bear in mind that there are only so many combat rounds in a day, and when you have used up your slots then the party will likely rest up anyway. You may actually end up using fewer slots, albeit of a higher level, because the fights will be over sooner.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Its mostly about choosing the right tool for the job just like any other spell in a casters arsenal.A sculpted Grease is only second level but can be even more incapacitating than a cloud of bewilderment, A meta-boosted Enervation is downright murderous, and an extended Summon can carry a low level fight instead of disappearing half-way through it

[Killer Angel]

I could prepare that spell with a modifier, a few levels higher. Oooorrr... I could prepare a higher level spell. Higher level spell sounds better to me, really.

It's about action economy.


While action economy is true, it's not the only thing: we shouldn't forget that there are other effects that cannot be duplicated by a higher level spell.
Silent spells, for example, may be decisive in some situations.

[Emperor Tippy]

Look at Fell Drain, especially combined with Easy Metamagic. Up the level by one and add a negative level with no save as a rider effect on any spell that deals damage.

Arcane Thesis, Easy Meta, Fell Drain Magic Missile (possibly throw on Enlarge if you want greater sniping range) lets you throw out a negative level with no save and no attack roll (only SR) against anywhere from one to five creatures.

That is -5 HP, -1 on all Skill and Ability Checks, -1 on all Attack Rolls and Saving Throws, -1 level on anything that asks for the individuals level or HD, and -1 spell of the highest level the individual can cast.

Get a lesser Rod of Quicken and you can throw those as swift actions three times per day. Or just taken Quicken and throw that on there. It becomes a 4th level spell in that case but its still great and will remain relevant all the way up to level 20.

For great fun you throw on Twin as well. It takes up a 7th level slot but its two negative levels as a swift action and then a 4th level slot for another 2 as a standard action.

You can actually make a fairly hilarious magic missile mage by going Factotum 11/ Wizard 9 and picking up Arcane Thesis: Magic Missile, Twin Spell, Easy Spell: Twin, Fell Drain, Easy Spell: Fell Drain, Invisible Spell, and Co-Operative Spell and fill all of your other feats with Font of Inspiration.

That lets you throw your 2 negative level Magic Missiles from a first level spell slot. Factotum 11 lets you spend an IP to ignore SR and Factotum 8 lets you pick up all of those tasty extra standard actions.

You can be throwing out 20+ negative levels in the surprise round against 5 separate targets.

Although Ardent 1/Psion (Telepath) 8 is technically a better choice if your DM won't let you use a Mage's Lucubration trap to regain your spells once combat is over.

The only problem is if your enemy has a Persistent Shield spell up (or just a regular shield spell, perhaps contingent) as that totally shuts down Mr. Missile Man.

[Spuddles]

There are a few metamagics that are worth paying for without reducers- fell drain, sculpt, empower, and occassionally quicken & persist.

Persisit is good for gish builds and some abuses with splat spells (permeable form I'm looking at you). Quicken is alright, but the price is high and with splats there are plenty of other things to do with your swift/immediate action.

Typically metamagic feats arent good until after level 7 to 10. Spell levels 1 to 5 generally are exponentially more powerful/useful than the spell level below. Black Tentacles of Phantom Steed are better than any empowered second level spell; Teleport is better than any quickened first level spell.

Sculpted Grease can be better than Web or Glitterdust, which are some of the cream of 2nd lvl spells.

In general, it's better to get metamagic on rods. It adds a degree of spontaneity/flexibility to a wizard that they otherwise lack.

[Vaz]

Energy Drain; 2d4 Negative Levels

Compare to a metamagic'd Enervation;

Black Lore of Moil, City Spell, Chain Spell, Invisible, Fell Drain, Split Ray, Twinned, Maximised, Empowered, with a ton of Metamagic Reducers (Easy, Arcane Thesis, Alter Self+ASA'd into a Slaymate etc) = ~20 Negative levels; compared to 2-8, average 5.