Shades + Sanctum Spelled Genesis = ???

[Rubik]

Okay, plant an oak tree in the place where your Sanctum Spell counts as your "sanctum." (Feather token: tree to do this quickly.)

Cast Acorn of Far Travel on an acorn from that tree and prepare Shades and Plane Shift.

Plane Shift to the Ethereal and cast Shades to emulate Genesis, using Sanctum Spell to make Genesis count an 8th level spell.

Booyah. Genesis with no XP component!

Furthermore, anyone entering the plane that doesn't explicitly say they fail their saving throw against Shades has a chance of getting booted out as soon as they interact with anything at all, which could be a decent gambit for the caster. "Hey, Murderhobos! This whole plane is an illusion!" And suddenly anyone who makes their save (with a +4 bonus, no less) is booted out.

Let's just hope nobody has True Seeing up.

[Snowbluff]

What's keeping them from doing the same thing the caster is doing to botch the save? I mean, anyone with spellcraft would go "meh," right?

[Rubik]

What's keeping them from doing the same thing the caster is doing to botch the save? I mean, anyone with spellcraft would go "meh," right?Most people don't think, "Oh yes! I'm foregoing my save!" until the second time they Plane Shift in, which gives the caster of the Shades a round or three to cast Dimensional Lock in his demiplane.

[Phelix-Mu]

Hmm. Isn't it simpler to just have a no-travel demiplane set up in front of a portal to the actual demiplane? The manner in which genesis forms an "entrance" to the demiplane always seemed a little ill-defined to me, but I think some obfuscation of the actual location might be better than allowing oneself time to cast an emergency blocking spell.

That said, this might be a handy way to avoid the experience cost, which is doubly nice because one can never have too many demiplanes.

[Snowbluff]

Most people don't think, "Oh yes! I'm foregoing my save!" until the second time they Plane Shift in, which gives the caster of the Shades a round or three to cast Dimensional Lock in his demiplane.
That certainly helps. It does specifically call out not affecting Ethereal creatures. I wonder how that interacts with this...

You should have your demiplane perpetually under the affect of Selective Dimensional Lock if someone ever figures out how to get to it. You have ninth level spells if you can make a Shades Plane. :smalltongue:

[Rubik]

Hmm. Isn't it simpler to just have a no-travel demiplane set up in front of a portal to the actual demiplane? The manner in which genesis forms an "entrance" to the demiplane always seemed a little ill-defined to me, but I think some obfuscation of the actual location might be better than allowing oneself time to cast an emergency blocking spell.What, you mean cast Shades on the Ethereal to create the first demiplane, then cast it again on the second one? I don't think it'd work, given the "antigenesis" deal, unless you cast Planar Bubble or had a sanctum somewhere on the Ethereal with the aformentioned acorn on an Ethereal tree.

Hiding the second entrance through various means would be easy enough, especially if it looks like the only plane available was the first one, and you could make teleportation magic completely null on your second plane, if you want, which would be a decent enough defense.

You could even foil people Wishing themselves onto your second demiplane by forcing them to Shapechange to Diminutive or smaller size because the entire plane is mostly solid rock riddled with rooms large enough to house Fine creatures comfortably and corridors small enough for Fine creatures to squeeze through.

Wouldn't foil others Wishing you out, though.


That said, this might be a handy way to avoid the experience cost, which is doubly nice because one can never have too many demiplanes.Very true, and it's easy enough to cast multiple Shade-Genesises from all your 9ths to expand your demiplane as large as you want it.

[Sith_Happens]

I'm pretty sure you can't Shadow Conjure a metamagiced spell.

[Phelix-Mu]

No, I was referring to chaining demiplanes via repeated castings at different places on the ethereal. Block/hide/destroy the entrance to the second on the ethereal, and link the two via permanent portals constructed between the two. I think this works. My general scheme is to make one demiplane that is very hard to get into, then make a second reachable only by a portal with multiple layers of security that is located on the first.

Added points for arranging no-save mindrapes of anyone that manages to port onto the first plane (or maybe someone that passes through the portal from the first to the second). I bet that can be done...ooh, I bet we can also arrange some form of dispelling or AMF that would remove mind blank.... Ah, I might be getting ahead of myself. Would be cool to have anyone trying to get into your demiplane arrive all tabula rasa, though.

[JaronK]

Note: This is easier as a Shadowcraft Mage with Earth Spell.

JaronK

[Jack_Simth]

I'm pretty sure you can't Shadow Conjure a metamagiced spell.
Curiously, the RAW answer (such as it is) to this is found in the metamagic feat type description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#metamagicFeats):

In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.

Specific trumps general, however, and (in the case of Sanctum Spell outside your sanctum), it's treated as a lower level spell (and the opposite is true for Heighten).

So theoretically, that Empowered, Maximized, Twinned, Repeating, Split Ray, [ ... ] Enervation is still just a 4th level Sor/Wiz spell, duplicatable by Limited wish for a 7th level spell slot and 300 xp (or a Miracle for a 9th level spell slot and no XP). Likewise, theoretically, a Sanctum Spell Genesis, cast outside your Sanctum, is an 8th level Sor/Wiz Conjouration(Creation) spell, and can indeed be duplicated by Shades. Yes, it's a stupid oversight, but technically it's legal.

[Emperor Tippy]

Curiously, the RAW answer (such as it is) to this is found in the metamagic feat type description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#metamagicFeats):


Specific trumps general, however, and (in the case of Sanctum Spell outside your sanctum), it's treated as a lower level spell (and the opposite is true for Heighten).

So theoretically, that Empowered, Maximized, Twinned, Repeating, Split Ray, [ ... ] Enervation is still just a 4th level Sor/Wiz spell, duplicatable by Limited wish for a 7th level spell slot and 300 xp (or a Miracle for a 9th level spell slot and no XP). Likewise, theoretically, a Sanctum Spell Genesis, cast outside your Sanctum, is an 8th level Sor/Wiz Conjouration(Creation) spell, and can indeed be duplicated by Shades. Yes, it's a stupid oversight, but technically it's legal.

One of the fun things to do with that is Zodar Shapechange to throw out the ultimate orbs of doom. Stack all of the meta (including Energy adaption four times, maximize, and twin).

[Rubik]

I'm pretty sure you can't Shadow Conjure a metamagiced spell.But Shades is what's being cast, so any feat applied to it applies to its effect (which is a simulated version of another spell -- in this case, Genesis). Lucky us, Sanctum Spell doesn't raise the spell slot needed to cast Shades, so it still works.

[Chronos]

The Acorn of Far Travel is unnecessary for this trick, since the use you're looking for for Sanctum Spell is the one that requires you to be outside your sanctum, not in it. So unless your sanctum encompasses the entire ethereal plane, you're already where you want to be.

Personally, though, I'd rather create some trivial construct (Minor Servitor, or a flying weapon, or whatever) on the ethereal plane, then Planar Bubble it so I can put my demiplane wherever I want it. I'd probably go to the edge of the Far Realm, cast a Rope Trick, then cast Genesis inside the Rope Trick. I might stack multiple Rope Tricks inside each other, if I'm feeling extra-paranoid.