Natural Attacks as PCs

[CAHaugen]

Let's say you are a Race who gains Natural Attacks; Bite and Claw. Technically one of these is your Primary and the other is your Secondary, for the purposes of which ones get the -5 penalty (-2 via Multiattack).

As a creature you encounter the DM has a few options. They can use a single Bite attack, a single Claw attack, or they can use a Full-Attack; Bite+Claw+Claw.

Now, taking this concept into a playable character, can you do this with a BAB of +5?

I know the Iterative Attacks (The second, third, and fourth attack in the BAB succession) allow you extra strike when using weapons or fists, and I assume this to be true via Natural Attacks, but how does using a Full-Attack look with BAB?

Does a +5 BAB mean you can only use a Full-Attack of a single Bite, or does it mean you get +5 for the Bite and +0 for the first Claw and +0 for the second Claw, both of which are reduced by -2 via Multiattack?

I.E. - Do you get a single strike at +5, or three strikes at +5/-2/-2?

Next, how does this play out in later BABs where you might be offered more Iterative Attacks than your actual Full-Attack, such as +20/+15/+10/+5 which is four Iterative Attacks yet your Full-Attack only allows for 3 attacks (Bite+Claw+Claw)?

We have a player who wants to be a Race with Bite and Claw attacks and we aren't sure how to handle this.

[CAHaugen]

Actually I may have just found an answer at:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Werebear

In which the Werebear's BAB is +5 but his Full-Attack via Hybrid Form is as follows:

"Claw +13 melee (1d6+9) and greataxe +9 melee (1d12+4/x3) and bite +11 melee (1d8+4)

or 2 claws +13 melee (1d6+9) and bite +11 melee (1d8+4)"

Since he gets 2 Claws and a Bite, with only a +5 BAB, this tells me that he get's his Claw (Primary Attack) at the +5 BAB, his second Claw and his Bite most likely at the -2 penalty since it states he has Multiattack, so +5/-2/-2 BAB.

Though I'm still unsure of how to handle this with higher BABs, so does anyone have that answer?

[The Insaniac]

A creature gets one natural attack per weapon regardless of BAB. There are ways of increasing this but under normal circumstances, you can't make iterative attacks with natural weapons.

[Coidzor]

The feats (originally from Draconomicon, IIRC) Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike are the only ways to get iterative attacks with a natural weapon.

However! Unarmed Strikes are quasi-natural, quasi-manufactured, and those are more-or-less easily reconciliable with even with a full natural attack routine.

Hence you find druids/wildshape rangers who get their kung fu panda on while in wildshape and then let loose with the claws and bites and so on.

[cakellene]

If a limb with a natural attack is used to handle a weapon, that limb can't make a natural attack. For instance, a character with bite and 2 claws can only use a single claw and bite as natural attacks if the other claw is holding a dagger.

[Septimus]

You do not get iterative attacks with natural weapons, but you can get iterative attacks if you're using a weapon. I quote the PRD: "Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type."

So in this situation you would have any "normal" attack sequence with your weapon(s) plus an amount of secondary natural attacks related to your body. If you're using a one-handed weapon, you will have your weapon at +5, then claw at +0 and bite at +0. When you reach +6 in BAB, you will have +6/+1 with your one-handed weapon and claw +1 and bite +1.
If you're using a two-handed weapon, then you loose both claw attacks but keeps the bite attack (at -5).

I hope it helps.

[Urpriest]

PCs and monsters use the same rules. Monsters have BAB too, after all. So if you knew how things worked for monsters, you'd know how things work for PCs too.

[Coidzor]

Oh, yeah, obligatory mini-guide, Natural Weapons and You (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=482.0).

[jaydubs]

If you're looking to get more attacks in per round, remember there are various ways to wield weapons without your hands/claws. Armor spikes, knee and boot blades from Complete Scoundrel, just off the top of my head. There are probably lots more.

[CAHaugen]

Wow, this got a lot of responses.

Thanks so much to everyone who contributed; This really did help a lot. :smallsmile:

[Yuki Akuma]

PCs and monsters use the same rules.

This. This is the most important thing to remember about the d20 System. Everyone uses the same rules.

[cakellene]

This. This is the most important thing to remember about the d20 System. Everyone uses the same rules.

Except when the DM cheats.

[Red Fel]

Except when the DM cheats.

Cheating is such a strong word. I prefer "creating complexity through encounter optimization and diversification."

[KillianHawkeye]

Except when the DM cheats.

That's not true. The players can also cheat. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[Maginomicon]

@OP This thread I made (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283584) may be helpful.

[Coidzor]

If you're looking to get more attacks in per round, remember there are various ways to wield weapons without your hands/claws. Armor spikes, knee and boot blades from Complete Scoundrel, just off the top of my head. There are probably lots more.

One thing to remember though, is that, without invoking the Two-Weapon Fighting Rules which brings that up to two or being a character that qualifies for Multiweapon Fighting which brings it up to 3 or more depending upon the number of arms with hands or prehensile tails involved, you only have one hand's worth of weapons you can wield with your iterative attacks. So wearing knee, elbow, wrist, and boot blades all at once isn't really going to do anything for you if you're already wielding another weapon, save for the stealth potential.

One notable exception from Dragon Magazine is the Braid Blade, which allows one extra attack at -5, -2 if one has enough ranks in Tumble, IIRC in addition to one's regular attack routine, whether it be with one manufactured weapon, TWF, MWF, or a natural attack routine by itself or added to any of the other manufactured weapon attack routine variants.