Battle Jump on a Clawlock and related things.

[aleucard]

In case it is not assumed, this is still the same character in the previous Warlock oriented thread I had here, I just don't want to necro that thread.

Basically, my guy (level 5 clawlock using this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12388331) and the demonic heritage) is getting into Warblade some time between level 6 and level 9 at the latest. I'm going to be definitely getting Sudden Leap and probably Rabid Wolf Strike as my first maneuvers, with one free slot for another maneuver and the level 1 stance probably being Blood in the Water. I'm very likely to spend my level 9 feat on getting Leaping Dragon stance if for no other reason than to boost my range for Sudden Leap. However, I also noticed the feat Battle Jump being paired very commonly with this kind of setup (albeit without Warlock), and I'm interested in how it'd interact with a Clawlock.

To sum the thread up, I'm wondering which ToB shenanigans and the related stuff (excepting the absurd things like IHS and WRT, I don't want to be kicked out of the group for pulling bull****) would be best for a Clawlock (especially one interested in maneuverability and range versatility (AKA can fight at most ranges well)). Figuring out what works and what doesn't, and the best things to do for at least level 6 (probably going to level to that next session) would be nice. I'm not wanting to be a tank, though, so keep that in mind.

Any assistance is appreciated. Thanks!

[aleucard]

Can someone please give me advice here? I could use some greatly!

[Darrin]

I'm going to be definitely getting Sudden Leap and probably Rabid Wolf Strike as my first maneuvers, with one free slot for another maneuver and the level 1 stance probably being Blood in the Water.


Rabid Wolf Strike is a single attack, +4 attack bonus with +2d6 damage. Did you mean Wolf Fang Strike?

As far as Blood in the Water goes... for a weapon that only crits on a 20? You'll get a heckuva lot more reliable damage out of Punishing Stance.



I'm very likely to spend my level 9 feat on getting Leaping Dragon stance if for no other reason than to boost my range for Sudden Leap. However, I also noticed the feat Battle Jump being paired very commonly with this kind of setup (albeit without Warlock), and I'm interested in how it'd interact with a Clawlock.


Battle Jump is so poorly written, it doesn't really interract well with anything. You'll want to ask your DM how he thinks it should work before you try anything with it.

If your DM is ok with Battle Jump and lets you activate it whenever you jump to a square 10' above your opponent, then you're actually much better off with Swordsage and grabbing the Shadow Jaunt/Stride/Blink maneuvers. The key to Battle Jump is it converts what would generally be a move action into a full-round charge attack. So the best way to make it work is to first get Pounce (usually via Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian), and then find a bunch of different ways to move/jump/teleport directly above your opponent.

As far as ToB/Warblade goes, this doesn't interract all that well with standard-action strikes because they can't be used as part of a charge. Some maneuvers can be combined with a charge (such as Charging Minotaur), but I don't think activating them is compatible with Battle Jump. Boosts and counters should work just fine, but if you're activating Battle Jump via Sudden Leap, then you already used your boost for that round. Ideally, you want the Battle Jump "Trifecta", or rather a method to activate it for each type of action you get every round.

Swift: Sudden Leap, Shadow Blink, Abrupt Jaunt ACF, dimension hop, hustle.

Move: Shadow Stride, Blink Shirt (Totem Chakra), Jumplomancer shenanigans

Standard: Shadow Jaunt, Blink Shirt (no chakra bind), Horizon Walker's Shifting, Shadowdancer's Shadow Step, etc.



To sum the thread up, I'm wondering which ToB shenanigans and the related stuff (excepting the absurd things like IHS and WRT, I don't want to be kicked out of the group for pulling bull****) would be best for a Clawlock (especially one interested in maneuverability and range versatility (AKA can fight at most ranges well)).


Again, I think Swordsage serves you much better here. If you want to focus on full attacks with your eldritch claws, then you want to load up on boosts/counters, and Swordsage gets the best selection of these. You can also pick up Assassin's Stance, which may open up Craven and Staggering Strike for your eldritch claw attacks.

[aleucard]

Rabid Wolf Strike is a single attack, +4 attack bonus with +2d6 damage. Did you mean Wolf Fang Strike?

As far as Blood in the Water goes... for a weapon that only crits on a 20? You'll get a heckuva lot more reliable damage out of Punishing Stance.



Battle Jump is so poorly written, it doesn't really interract well with anything. You'll want to ask your DM how he thinks it should work before you try anything with it.

If your DM is ok with Battle Jump and lets you activate it whenever you jump to a square 10' above your opponent, then you're actually much better off with Swordsage and grabbing the Shadow Jaunt/Stride/Blink maneuvers. The key to Battle Jump is it converts what would generally be a move action into a full-round charge attack. So the best way to make it work is to first get Pounce (usually via Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian), and then find a bunch of different ways to move/jump/teleport directly above your opponent.

As far as ToB/Warblade goes, this doesn't interract all that well with standard-action strikes because they can't be used as part of a charge. Some maneuvers can be combined with a charge (such as Charging Minotaur), but I don't think activating them is compatible with Battle Jump. Boosts and counters should work just fine, but if you're activating Battle Jump via Sudden Leap, then you already used your boost for that round. Ideally, you want the Battle Jump "Trifecta", or rather a method to activate it for each type of action you get every round.

Swift: Sudden Leap, Shadow Blink, Abrupt Jaunt ACF, dimension hop, hustle.

Move: Shadow Stride, Blink Shirt (Totem Chakra), Jumplomancer shenanigans

Standard: Shadow Jaunt, Blink Shirt (no chakra bind), Horizon Walker's Shifting, Shadowdancer's Shadow Step, etc.



Again, I think Swordsage serves you much better here. If you want to focus on full attacks with your eldritch claws, then you want to load up on boosts/counters, and Swordsage gets the best selection of these. You can also pick up Assassin's Stance, which may open up Craven and Staggering Strike for your eldritch claw attacks.

Wolf Fang Strike only works if I have one of my hands unarmed. I'm using claw weapons that I'm allowed to pair with Eldritch Claws.

Punishing Stance, while the +1d6 is nice, the -2 AC is not, especially on a half-squishy that's going to be highly annoying to opponents.

Since Battle Jump looks to be a mess, I think I'll just skip it then. Still want ways to get close enough to Full-Attack, though.

I want to go with Warblade mainly for the BAB and d12 HD. If you got any suggestions for Swordsage, though, be my guest. I'm not that interested in being yet another sneaky guy though, so Assassin's Stance is unlikely. Maneuverability is my preferred area of expertise.

EDIT: So far, if I do choose Swordsage instead of Warblade for my dip, my level 1 stance is looking to be either Child of Shadow or Blood in the Water. I may end up doing 2 levels of it depending on if I find something to put in that second stance and extra maneuver.

[aleucard]

Alright. To parse down what I need as much as possible, let's go with 2 tracks.

Track 1, I'm doing a 2-level dip in Swordsage, with the 2nd level being potentially right after the 1st (the reason for the 2nd level is the 2nd stance, which will be Leaping Dragon unless something better is pointed out and I just take a feat for that). What I need to know is what the best level 1 stance would be (currently looking at Child of Shadow and Blood in the Water), and what to do with the majority of my maneuver slots (Sudden Leap is a guarantee, which forces at least 1 no-prereq Tiger Claw maneuver, but the others are free except maybe taking the Con-save stuff from Diamond Mind, which is absolutely beautiful on its own but I still got 3.5 selections to make if I do).

Track 2, I do a 1-level dip in Warblade, taking the feat for Leaping Dragon at level 9 (with Warblade being somewhere between 6 and 9, though probably sooner). This one's somewhat simpler, with only 1.5 maneuvers to choose and the only candidate for Stance 1 I can see being Blood in the Water. This makes for 1 less Feat slot (since my level 9 will be for Leaping Dragon), but Warlocks aren't absurdly reliant on feats in the first place, though they ARE nice when they're on the table.

For both, suggested feats to take would be a great help. The ones I'm most likely to take are Maximize SLA (probably level 6) and Craft Magic Weapons and Armor (possibly level 9 in Track 1 and 12 in Track 2). Any suggestions for others or better picks in place of these are welcome.

EDIT: Alright, to modify track 1 a bit, I CAN wait for my first level in Swordsage until level 9, but I will be taking the feat for Leaping Dragon in that case almost guaranteed. The main benefit of this is letting me take level 3 maneuvers on my first Swordsage level. If I wait an additional 2 levels after that for the 2nd, I can add a level 4 maneuver and stance. Anyone know any candidates for those slots that would make the wait worth it, or would I be better off just forgetting the 2nd level at this point?