Blink Dog PC

[Lord Ruby34]

Essentially I want to make this work, I want to play a Blink Dog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/blinkDog.htm) in an actual campaign, 3.5, gestalt, pathfinder, it doesn't matter. I intend to play one. The main problem is that I would be six levels behind before I could take any sort of useful class levels. I was thinking of Swordsage or a Swift Hunter build afterwords, but I'm worried about keeping up with other PCs. Does anyone have any helpful suggestions or build ideas that would let me keep up?

In gestalt it would be significantly easier to work with, I can just throw the LA and the RHD on one side of the Gestalt and be done with it.

In pathfinder the Blink Dog looks more like this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/blink-dog). I have no clue how I would approach it here. I'm not even completely sure how monsters as characters work in pathfinder, much less what build options I could take to utilize my abilities. Maybe Monk, or Stalker after PoW comes out? I'm hoping for some help here too.

Ideally any build would use the Blink Dog's abilities to the fullest possible extent, I really like the image of teleporting around and throwing my enemies around like ragdolls, which is why I was thinking swordsage originally.

[eggynack]

Just play a druid, and at level nine you can take exalted wild shape (BoED, 42). By the time you get access to the feat you can run around in blink dog form, with pretty much perfect access to their abilities, for 27 hours a day. Also, you get to be a druid, which means crazy awesomeness on top of being a blink dog. The feat gives other stuff on top of that, like unicorn form, and access to the Ex abilities of all of your animal forms, but that's presumably not as important. You'd definitely be able to throw your enemies around like ragdolls with reasonable efficiency, though you might want to leave blink dog form for that. I suggest picking up a mantle of the wild (CC, 140), so you can switch from teleport happy to face ripping as a swift action.

[(Un)Inspired]

Totemist! Blink dog wearing a displaced beast cloak FTW

[cakellene]

Add in Warshaper to change forms without ending Wild Shape.

[eggynack]

Add in Warshaper to change forms without ending Wild Shape.
That seems a bit like a step down, given that you're losing five caster levels for it. You could probably just use those five levels of casting to augment your blink dog form such that using up wild shapes rapidly isn't necessary. It's just a lot of levels for a benefit that, while admittedly decent, doesn't compare favorably.

[(Un)Inspired]

Actually my vote goes to Bard followed by Sublime Chord. Then you can play:

Rowdy, Singer of The Great Dog-Song

Plus howl-casting is rad.

[cakellene]

That seems a bit like a step down, given that you're losing five caster levels for it. You could probably just use those five levels of casting to augment your blink dog form such that using up wild shapes rapidly isn't necessary. It's just a lot of levels for a benefit that, while admittedly decent, doesn't compare favorably.

He didn't say anything about caster classes in OP, so might not be a big deal to lose a little spellcasting and there are ways to do this without having been a caster to begin with.

[Lord Ruby34]

Just play a druid, and at level nine you can take exalted wild shape (BoED, 42). By the time you get access to the feat you can run around in blink dog form, with pretty much perfect access to their abilities, for 27 hours a day. Also, you get to be a druid, which means crazy awesomeness on top of being a blink dog. The feat gives other stuff on top of that, like unicorn form, and access to the Ex abilities of all of your animal forms, but that's presumably not as important. You'd definitely be able to throw your enemies around like ragdolls with reasonable efficiency, though you might want to leave blink dog form for that. I suggest picking up a mantle of the wild (CC, 140), so you can switch from teleport happy to face ripping as a swift action.

Druid isn't a terrible option, but I'm going to consider it as a fall back plan. I want to play a blink dog character, not merely take the form of one. It feels like cheating somehow. It might be what I end up doing, but I hope to avoid it.

[eggynack]

He didn't say anything about caster classes in OP, so might not be a big deal to lose a little spellcasting and there are ways to do this without having been a caster to begin with.
I get that, but if the plan is face eating, then my general belief is that war shaper actually diminishes your ability to succeed at that plan. You could be accessing bigger forms, and giving them more power with spells, instead of making one of your available tricks a bit more efficient. Also, there really aren't that many non-caster ways to do this, given that a blink dog's LA is cohort only.


Druid isn't a terrible option, but I'm going to consider it as a fall back plan. I want to play a blink dog character, not merely take the form of one. It feels like cheating somehow. It might be what I end up doing, but I hope to avoid it.
That makes some sense. Still, it's likely the best way to accomplish your goals without sacrificing effectiveness. Exalted wild shape is pretty awesome. Definitely one of my favorite form adding feats, primarily for the blink dog thing. There's just something about taking a monster's perfectly reasonable techniques, like crazy infinite teleportation, and adding spells to them, that gets you to a new level of awesome.

[Lord Ruby34]

That makes some sense. Still, it's likely the best way to accomplish your goals without sacrificing effectiveness. Exalted wild shape is pretty awesome. Definitely one of my favorite form adding feats, primarily for the blink dog thing. There's just something about taking a monster's perfectly reasonable techniques, like crazy infinite teleportation, and adding spells to them, that gets you to a new level of awesome.

You're likely right, it is almost definitely the best way to accomplish my goals as I stated them in the opening post. It just doesn't fit the image in my head quite right. :/

Still, if I can't find another mechanically viable way to do it druid will have to work.

I'm going to assume that a DM will ignore the cohort only part of the entry, because if they won't I can always play another character. Or play a druid.

[WhamBamSam]

The +2 LA specifies cohorts, so you might have to check with your DM to get the 3.5 version okayed. But, whatever, let's assume you can clear that little hurdle.

That free action Dimension Door would be nice with shadow pouncing, though there might be issues getting into Telflammar Shadowlord, since your (Su) Dimension Door doesn't actually qualify you.

Blink Dog 4/LA +2/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Jaunter 4/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Unarmed Swordsage +6

Feats would be something like: Dodge, Mobility, Desert Wind Dodge (trade Dodge for Spring Attack), Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance), Improved Unarmed Strike, Shadow Blade, Snap Kick

Flaws would help get this online at a more reasonable time, and if you don't have to worry about multiclass penalties, you can make things go a lot smoother and get a hold of Sun School if you dip a level of Monk.

So something like Blink Dog 4/LA +2/Sleeping Tiger Monk 1/Unarmed Swordsage 1/Jaunter 3/Unarmed Swordsage +1/Jaunter +1/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Unarmed Swordsage +5, with feats Dodge, Mobility, Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk), Weapon Finesse (Monk), Desert Wind Dodge (trade Dodge for Spring Attack), Sun School, Snap Kick, Shadow Blade. Getting IUS as a bonus feat and not having to spend a feat on Martial Stance makes everything a lot nicer.

I'll also default to my usual advice for monster races with Track as a bonus feat and a Wis bonus (so my usual advice for werewolves, which happens to apply here), which is to go Substitute Power Ardent into Slayer with Practiced Manifester.

Nice and simple, Blink Dog 4/LA +2/Ardent 4/Slayer 10. Gets 9th level powers at ECL 20.

If you feel like really going all-in with the cheese you might be able to combine the two concepts. I'm not even going to try putting together anything even remotely workable without flaws, but the basic idea is that the Magic Mantle allows you to use both Practiced Manifester and Practiced Spellcaster to boost ML and with the way Ardent manifesting works, the level of powers you can learn. Pick up Dimension Door as one of your powers, and since magic and psionics count as identical thanks to Magic Mantle you can use that to qualify for Shadowlord.

Blink Dog 4/LA +2/Ardent 2/Slayer 6/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Slayer +2

Feats: Flaw: Dodge, Flaw: Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Martial Study(Shadow Blade, PsyRef it to Shadow Jaunt or one of the other teleportation maneuvers eventually), Practiced Manifester, Spring Attack, Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance), Practiced Spellcaster, Shadow Blade.

Use a Mouthpick Spiked Chain to smack people with. Mouthpick automatically grants proficiency and it's a finesse/Shadow Hand weapon for Dex synergy.

[Lord Ruby34]

So something like Blink Dog 4/LA +2/Sleeping Tiger Monk 1/Unarmed Swordsage 1/Jaunter 3/Unarmed Swordsage +1/Jaunter +1/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Unarmed Swordsage +5, with feats Dodge, Mobility, Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk), Weapon Finesse (Monk), Desert Wind Dodge (trade Dodge for Spring Attack), Sun School, Snap Kick, Shadow Blade. Getting IUS as a bonus feat and not having to spend a feat on Martial Stance makes everything a lot nicer.


Thanks, this one looks sweet. Where can I find Jaunter?

[Chronos]

Depending on how your DM rules for Skirmish, a Scout might also work well. And even if you can't get full-on Shadow Pounce from Teflamar Shadowlord, you might be able to pick up the Sun School feat for a similar effect.

[cakellene]

And where is Sleeping Tiger Monk and Teflamar Shadowlord?

[WhamBamSam]

And where is Sleeping Tiger Monk and Teflamar Shadowlord?Sleeping Tiger is one of the Monk fighting styles in Unearthed Arcana, which are also on the Variant Character Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm) page of the SRD. Telflammar Shadowlord is in Unapproachable East.


Thanks, this one looks sweet. Where can I find Jaunter?Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. It's an obscure little thing to be sure. I certainly wouldn't know about it if it weren't for these forums. It fits in nicely to shadowpouncer builds though, since it gets you Dimension Door as an SLA, and has the same awful feat prereqs that Shadowlord does, save for Blind Fight, which I missed apparently.:smallsigh: So this might actually need a flaw or some chicanery to work. If you can squeeze in a level of Hit and Run Fighter, that would let you take it as your bonus feat and would have some Dex synergy.

Also, I counted the levels wrong so there would actually be less Swordsage tacked onto the end (though more Swordsage would be what you'd take if LA buyoff were on the table). Sadly that means it doesn't quite get the IL you need for Shadow Blink without LA buyoff.

So it's really Blink Dog 4/LA +2/Sleeping Tiger Monk 1/Unarmed Swordsage 1/Jaunter 3/Unarmed Swordsage +1/Hit and Run Fighter 1/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Jaunter +1/Unarmed Swordsage +2. Feats are still pretty much the same, except the Blind Fight bonus feat you get from Hit and Run Fighter.

So it seems I sort of goofed when coming up with that, but it should still be salvageable. Gestalt or LA buyoff would of course simplify the whole thing considerably.

[nedz]

I'm not sure you need Sun School since Blink Dogs can act after dim-dooring any way ?

I'm not sure how this would work in gestalt ?
I've seen builds such as
Blink Dog 4 / LA +2 // X 6

This would make the concept less painful.

[Lord Ruby34]

I'm not sure you need Sun School since Blink Dogs can act after dim-dooring any way ?


I think the language of the feat allows you to full attack, Dimension Door away and hit somebody else. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

[WhamBamSam]

Sun School gets more attacks for free. Same thing with Shadow Pounce. Getting to act after teleporting is nice. Getting to full attack, smack the enemy an extra time or two, then act after teleporting is nicer. Getting to use those actions for more teleportation getting more full attacks with more extra smacks is nicer still.

And yes, Gestalt makes everything significantly easier. Hell, you could probably manage a fourth iterative, Shadow Pouncing with all the Shadow Hand teleportation maneuvers, and 9th level Powers through Ardent manifesting without significant difficulty.

Something like Blink Dog 4/LA +2/Cobra Strike Monk 2/Swordsage 2/Hit and Run Fighter 2/Swordsage +8//Ardent 6/Slayer 6/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Slayer +4.

Feats:
ECL 1: Track (Blink Dog), Weapon Finesse
ECL 3: Darkstalker
ECL 6: Practiced Manifester (Ardent)
ECL 7: Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk), Dodge (Monk)
ECL 8: Mobility (Monk)
ECL 9: Desert Wind Dodge (trade Dodge for Sun School),
ECL 11: Spring Attack (Fighter)
ECL 12: Snap Kick, Blind Fight (Fighter)
ECL 15: Shadow Blade
ECL 18: Adaptive Style, Multiattack, or Overchannel

The Substitute Power ACF allows you to pick and choose powers known. Get Dimension Door as a power and make one of your mantles the Magic Mantle so you can use it to qualify for Shadowlord. Devote most of the remainder of your powers to breaking the action economy, with a few going to things that can add natural attacks to the full attack routine you'll be using so much (Form of Doom is a favorite of mine), gishy powers to help boost your damage output (Painful Strike is nice with all the hits you're getting), and stuff that's just generally good (Teleportation, Catapsi for the poor man's Selective Anti-Magic Field when combined with Magic Mantle). At 18th, 19th, and 20th level you can select 9th level powers, and Slayer gives you Breach Power Resistance, which means that PR/SR can basically be ignored after all the hits you make through Shadow Pouncing. Microcosm becomes a no-save, no-SR, just lose ability if the target is vulnerable to Mind-Affecting.

[Chronos]

I'm not sure you need Sun School since Blink Dogs can act after dim-dooring any way ?
You don't need it, but it means getting an extra attack each round. Dim-door, get your Sun School attack, and then make your regular full attack.

[nedz]

Ah, missed that little exploit.