Immunity to Wish?

[Rubik]

Spells such as Dimensional Lock and Dimensional Anchor have no effect on someone abducted via Wish.

So far, the only way I can think of to become immune to it is to own a spellblade keyed to Wish and to keep it drawn at all times (such as via a poison ring, a necklace of natural weaponry, armor spikes, braid blades, or similar).

Oh, and the Fates card from the deck of many things, I suppose, though that only works once.

Can anyone else think of a way to prevent oneself from being abducted via Wish?

[Psyren]

The transportation effect of Wish is subject to SR. So gaining unbeatable SR or magic immunity (same thing really) will protect you.

[Rubik]

The transportation effect of Wish is subject to SR. So gaining unbeatable SR or magic immunity (same thing really) will protect you.In general, yes, unless that Wish is made via an efreeti, or a psion with the Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) feat. (Su) abilities are not subject to SR. Good for the psion, not so good for his target.

[Psyren]

In general, yes, unless that Wish is made via an efreeti or a psion with the Supernatural Transformation feat. (Su) abilities are not subject to SR. Good for the psion, not so good for his target.

Well if it's a supernatural wish, the Spellblade won't help you either because it's no longer a spell, it's a supernatural ability. (In fact, even a SLA might bypass it.)

As far as the SR, you could argue that the specific text of wish means that transporting with it is still subject to SR even if the wish itself is supernatural (since Su Transformation doesn't remove that text from the wish spell.)

Finally, if you're bringing psions into it, they can simply Retrieve your Spellblade ring before abducting you.

[Emperor Tippy]

There is exactly two non epic methods to become immune to Wish (and the transport travelers clause of Wish and Reality Revision), and the first is Dweomer Of Transference manifested by someone with the Magic Mantle.

That does not, on strictest reading, protect you against Spell Like and Supernatural versions of Wish or Reality Revision.

It cast by someone without the Magic Mantle it just protects against Wish. Again on strictest reading it doesn't protect against a Supernatural or Spell Like Wish.

Your best defense against that is to ensure that you can always make the save.

The method that works against everything is Timeless Body. Again I recommend manifesting it with the Magic Mantle so that you can throw on Selective (You) and Persistent. You are now totally immune to any harmful or helpful effect created by anyone but yourself for the day.

If you get Epic than you can become immune to Wish and Reality Revision using the Ward seed.

If the caster can't negate the SR: Yes bit then it is significantly easier to become immune (Shadesteel Golem form, for example).

[Sgt. Cookie]

I'm at uni and the SRD's blocked, but does that particular use of Wish constitute as a Targeted spell? Like, say, Wail of the Banshee or CLW.

Because if so, then a Swarm wouldn't be affected, can't be hit by Targeted Spells, you see. Now the easiest, and cheapest, way of becoming a Swarm is the Symbiote Template from Savage Species, for LA +1.

Depending on your level of cheese (But if you're trying to prevent Wish abduction, I'm guessing your OP level is pretty high), I would suggest that the Dread Blossom Swarm be your go-to Swarm of choice. My thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259833) on the subject has all the reasons why. (There's a LOT of them).

[Drachasor]

Hmm, does anti-magic field or a dead magic zone/plane count as a "local condition?"

[Bullet06320]

There is exactly two non epic methods to become immune to Wish (and the transport travelers clause of Wish and Reality Revision), and the first is Dweomer Of Transference manifested by someone with the Magic Mantle.

That does not, on strictest reading, protect you against Spell Like and Supernatural versions of Wish or Reality Revision.

It cast by someone without the Magic Mantle it just protects against Wish. Again on strictest reading it doesn't protect against a Supernatural or Spell Like Wish.

Your best defense against that is to ensure that you can always make the save.

The method that works against everything is Timeless Body. Again I recommend manifesting it with the Magic Mantle so that you can throw on Selective (You) and Persistent. You are now totally immune to any harmful or helpful effect created by anyone but yourself for the day.

If you get Epic than you can become immune to Wish and Reality Revision using the Ward seed.

If the caster can't negate the SR: Yes bit then it is significantly easier to become immune (Shadesteel Golem form, for example).

are you referring to the mantle spell from the 2e magister book?

[Necroticplague]

are you referring to the mantle spell from the 2e magister book?

No, he's referring to the Mantles of ardents, which are a fait bit like cleric Domains. In this case, he's using the useful granted power that lets you treat psi as magic and vice-versa.

[Bullet06320]

don't recognize those

but the mantle spell from the 2e magisters books will grant u immunity to wish if u choose that, its a bit more complicated, but I enjoy that particular spell, lol

[Kerilstrasz]

im not sure about wish mechanics.. but..

can't you just use a wish "I wish i could never be affected by a transportation effect unless i want to" ?

[Craft (Cheese)]

im not sure about wish mechanics.. but..

can't you just use a wish "I wish i could never be affected by a transportation effect unless i want to" ?

That'd fall into the category of an Unsafe Wish: You could attempt it, but the results are basically DM fiat. I wouldn't be surprised if your DM decided to screw with you, by making it work like "You can't consent to things while you're unconscious" so as soon as you fall asleep you stop moving along with the earth's rotation and revolution and start flying around at dangerously high speeds...

[unseenmage]

Craft Contingent Spell to Dispel the Wish perhaps?
Since Contingencies trump just about everything.

Craft Contingent Spell a Wish of your own somehow?
Perhaps Wish: Create Magic Item: the Spellblade.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Alright, I've been able to check the SRD and, I was right. Wish explicitly states:


Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

Emphasis mine. So, this use of Wish does explicitly affect a distinct number of targets, which a Swarm is explicitly immune to. Which the Symbiote Template can turn you into.

So it appears that (And I can't believe I'm actually saying this) Tippy was wrong. There are in fact three non-epic ways to become immune to Wish and Reality Revision. And unlike his methods, mine's always active.

[Psyren]

Emphasis mine. So, this use of Wish does explicitly affect a distinct number of targets, which a Swarm is explicitly immune to.

Not necessarily - a swarm is immune to effects that target a specific number of creatures. "One creature/CL" isn't actually specific, since it varies depending on who is casting the spell. Contrast it with something like Daze, which does specifically target one creature.

[Urpriest]

The method that works against everything is Timeless Body. Again I recommend manifesting it with the Magic Mantle so that you can throw on Selective (You) and Persistent. You are now totally immune to any harmful or helpful effect created by anyone but yourself for the day.

Why doesn't that count as a local condition?

[Sgt. Cookie]

But, as soon as you do cast the spell, it then does target a specific number of creatures. Specifically, as many creatures as your Caster Level.

For example, a Wizard with a CL of 20 casts Wish, that Wish spell then specifically targets 20 creatures.

Hell, even Pun-Pun is bound by that rule. His Caster Level may be arbitrarily high, but as soon as he casts Wish, he is still targeting a specific, albeit arbitrary, number of targets.

[Emperor Tippy]

Why doesn't that count as a local condition?

Because it's not environmental. AMF is a local condition, Dead Magic Plane is a local condition, the creature having a buff on him is no more a local condition than him having SR is a local condition.

[Drachasor]

So is AMF a "local condition"? I sort of think it is, but I'm not really sure. If not then Contingency + AMF will work.


Not necessarily - a swarm is immune to effects that target a specific number of creatures. "One creature/CL" isn't actually specific, since it varies depending on who is casting the spell. Contrast it with something like Daze, which does specifically target one creature.

It's quite clear by "specific" they mean a countable number as opposed to everything in an area or the like. One Creature/CL is a specific number. As is 2d4+4 or whatever. All of these specify a number of targets, compared to the many spells that do not.

So it does seem that being a Swarm works. Though a DM might rule that picking up a Swarm is within the power of a Wish. So...potentially iffy (in practice).

[Drachasor]

Because it's not environmental. AMF is a local condition, Dead Magic Plane is a local condition, the creature having a buff on him is no more a local condition than him having SR is a local condition.

"Local condition" isn't really ever defined though. A buff could be considered one, I think. If it isn't, then your own AMF radiating from you is much less clearly a local condition.

[Emperor Tippy]

It's clear in context.

"A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions."

Local Conditions refers to the local conditions of the environment that the creature is being taken from and placed in.

AMF is a local condition because it's an area of effect spell. It makes the target radiate a field that makes the area inside the field bad for magic, it doesn't make the target them-self interfere with magic.

[Psyren]

But, as soon as you do cast the spell, it then does target a specific number of creatures. Specifically, as many creatures as your Caster Level.

For example, a Wizard with a CL of 20 casts Wish, that Wish spell then specifically targets 20 creatures.

Hell, even Pun-Pun is bound by that rule. His Caster Level may be arbitrarily high, but as soon as he casts Wish, he is still targeting a specific, albeit arbitrary, number of targets.

All right, I'll give you that one. But here's another angle:

This can indeed work - but there's no actual way in SS to gain the template on yourself. That whole section of SS is for DMs to create new monsters with. So you can't actually protect yourself in this way, you have to ask the DM to turn you into a symbiotic creature. In which case you may as well just ask him to pretty please not let you be wishnapped anywhere. You can't even transform into such a creature since polymorph spells don't let you assume templates.

[Urpriest]

It's clear in context.

"A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions."

Local Conditions refers to the local conditions of the environment that the creature is being taken from and placed in.

AMF is a local condition because it's an area of effect spell. It makes the target radiate a field that makes the area inside the field bad for magic, it doesn't make the target them-self interfere with magic.

I don't see the context use the word environment anywhere. "Local" means at a single point or a limited region, as opposed to "global" which means everywhere, universally. Both conditions affecting the target and conditions affecting the area around the target are local in that sense.

[Emperor Tippy]

I don't see the context use the word environment anywhere. "Local" means at a single point or a limited region, as opposed to "global" which means everywhere, universally. Both conditions affecting the target and conditions affecting the area around the target are local in that sense.

Except they aren't. That bit is referring to where it can pick up a target from and where it can drop them off (anywhere).

With Wish location is totally irrelevant being "anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." but nothing in that sentence states that spells and effects on the target can't prevent transport. If that was the case then it would be No Save and No SR, as those are just as much "local conditions" under your reading as a spell that is in effect on the target.

[Drachasor]

Except they aren't. That bit is referring to where it can pick up a target from and where it can drop them off (anywhere).

With Wish location is totally irrelevant being "anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." but nothing in that sentence states that spells and effects on the target can't prevent transport. If that was the case then it would be No Save and No SR, as those are just as much "local conditions" under your reading as a spell that is in effect on the target.

One could interpret "local conditions" to be referring to whether the targets can survive in them or not though. It might just be referring to the destination for all we know. Frankly, buffs are local and a condition, so I don't see how you can be so sure they don't matter if they aren't AoEs but buffs with AoEs do matter. The text is far too unclear to support such certainty.

[Devronq]

I believe there is an epic feat that you chose a spell (so chose wish) and whenever that spell is cast near you you gain a copy of it so wish for the wish to not effect you. Also there is an epic monster that once you cast a spell on him he is immune to that spell so you could steal that ability. Mind you both of those are epic I assume you want non epic :p

[Phelix-Mu]

There is a 9th level druid spell that turns one into a swarm for 1hr/level in the "official" material of the site WotC got to release Dark Sun material. Niche, I know, but people were talking about swarms, so I thought I'd bring it up.

Also, Craft Contingent Spell wish would probably work. When wished somewhere by someone else, you can trigger the wish to wish yourself back to where you started before you got to where you were going. Gets into some muck regarding interrupting instantaneous stuff, but I think it works.

Ah, Craft Contingent Spell. Why so broke, son?

[Emperor Tippy]

One could interpret "local conditions" to be referring to whether the targets can survive in them or not though. It might just be referring to the destination for all we know. Frankly, buffs are local and a condition, so I don't see how you can be so sure they don't matter if they aren't AoEs but buffs with AoEs do matter. The text is far too unclear to support such certainty.

Buff's aren't local conditions (at least most of them), they are inherent parts of the creature for their duration.

For a condition to be "local" it can not persist everywhere, unlike a creatures buffs. Those continue to exist independent of where the creature is and thus don't meet any definition of "local".

[Drachasor]

Buff's aren't local conditions (at least most of them), they are inherent parts of the creature for their duration.

And how is AMF different than that?


For a condition to be "local" it can not persist everywhere, unlike a creatures buffs. Those continue to exist independent of where the creature is and thus don't meet any definition of "local".

Creature buffs don't persist everywhere. They only persist on the affected targets for a period of time.

Yeah, they do meet a definition of local, meaning confined to a particular region/area. Sure, that region is the creature, but that doesn't make it non-local. Something that is truly non-local doesn't have a location at all.

Buffs are quite local. But beyond that, I don't see how using your viewpoint somehow excludes AMF.

[Talderas]

If you get Epic than you can become immune to Wish and Reality Revision using the Ward seed.

I must be missing something. From my reading of the ward seed I can see immunity to spells and spell-like abilities (and psionics/psionic-like abilities due to the magic-psionics transparency rule). I cannot see how the ward seed would protect you from a supernatural wish effect.

[Phelix-Mu]

The game just throws around all kinds of ill-defined language all the time. It's a major flaw of the ruleset, imho. A better glossary and better adherence to the same defined terms would have gone a long way to clearing up a bunch of the stupid ambiguity that is plastered all over the core books, and which only gets worse the farther from them one strays.

"Local conditions" sounds like it's referring to something environmental to me. Like the weather or some such. It's something that is already going on, regardless of who or what is there or what they are doing. If a local condition were movable with a person, it wouldn't be very local (though I guess it might be termed "localized").

From "local":

adjective
adjective: local

1. belonging or relating to a particular area or neighborhood, typically exclusively so.

Again, this is so vague as to be all but worthless, and the DM is probably needed to clarify what exact conditions are ignored.

EDIT: As to the Epic Spells thing, a specific epic spell can do anything you design it to do. It is up to the DM what to allow and how to ad hoc adjust Spellcraft DCs for additional effects. To that extent, RAW readings of what epic spells are capable of are pretty meaningless.

[Psyren]

I must be missing something. From my reading of the ward seed I can see immunity to spells and spell-like abilities (and psionics/psionic-like abilities due to the magic-psionics transparency rule). I cannot see how the ward seed would protect you from a supernatural wish effect.

Also, if Epic is in play then this is all out the window anyway since you can create "Mordenkainen's Wardbreaking Kidnapper" or something.

[Phelix-Mu]

Also, if Epic is in play then this is all out the window anyway since you can create "Mordenkainen's Wardbreaking Kidnapper" or something.

Or "PlotbreaksTimeForPizzaMyTreat Dweomer."

I really wish I could use sarcasm tags with that.

[Emperor Tippy]

And how is AMF different than that?
Because AMF alters the environment around a given creature, it does not alter the creature its self. AMF's do nothing to creatures, what they do is prevent the functioning of certain abilities inside their defined area, hence local conditions even if the local moves with the creature.


Creature buffs don't persist everywhere. They only persist on the affected targets for a period of time.
They persist independent of the creatures location though. Even dumped on a dead magic plane those spells still persist. They might cease to function or do anything but they still persist. For the creature these are temporary, global, effects (i.e. these effects last regardless of the creatures location for a defined time period).


Buffs are quite local. But beyond that, I don't see how using your viewpoint somehow excludes AMF.
Buff's are not at all local. For buffs to be local you would have to be able to take a creature from a location where their buffs exists to a location where their buffs do not exist, that can not be done as the buffs have no defined location.

Antimagic Field has a defined location (a 10 foot radius around a given creature), you can point to physical locations that are outside of this area. You can't do that with something like Timeless Body.

[Phelix-Mu]

I'm thinking "localized" would be more appropriate if they meant stuff that was in an area but movable, but I could be wrong. English is generally used in a very flexible way in the much of the rules, far beyond the level that I would prefer.

I think I agree with Tippy's take on it, frankly.

[Urpriest]

Because AMF alters the environment around a given creature, it does not alter the creature its self. AMF's do nothing to creatures, what they do is prevent the functioning of certain abilities inside their defined area, hence local conditions even if the local moves with the creature.

Tippy, I know you don't hold to this interpretation. If AMF worked this way, Selective AMF wouldn't work.

[Emperor Tippy]

Tippy, I know you don't hold to this interpretation. If AMF worked this way, Selective AMF wouldn't work.

Ah but it does because Selective Spell says "You can modify an area spell so that it does not affect one designated creature within it's area.". A Selective Antimagic Field has absolutely no affect on you because the effect it has is part of the spell and Selective Spell lets you totally ignore a spell.

[Psyren]

AMF is absolutely a local condition. It's a defined, limited zone around the target. How could it be anything but?

[Emperor Tippy]

AMF is absolutely a local condition. It's a defined, limited zone around the target. How could it be anything but?

Which I agree with 100%.

[Stegyre]

That'd fall into the category of an Unsafe Wish: You could attempt it, but the results are basically DM fiat. I wouldn't be surprised if your DM decided to screw with you, by making it work like "You can't consent to things while you're unconscious" so as soon as you fall asleep you stop moving along with the earth's rotation and revolution and start flying around at dangerously high speeds...
I would respectfully disagree. The RAW language from Wish is that
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)
In context, that is "greater" than a number of specified effects, some of which are reasonably equivalent to this one, specifically, the following:

•Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.(I am "undoing" the harmful effect of another Wish. I'm simply doing so in advance.)

•Transport travelers.(You transport me away? I am wishing myself right back.)

Pragmatically speaking, nothing (except leaving the table) can stop the DM from screwing with you if he or she wants to. But IMHO this is a pretty reasonable use of an extremely powerful spell.

If I were the GM (and admittedly, I'm not), I would allow this wish, without any twisting: the character could not be transported against his will. However, that wish could be undone by another's wish: basically, one instance of this spell may be used to cancel out another instance of it.

YMMV

[Psyren]

Which I agree with 100%.

Indeed, I was supporting your interpretation :smallsmile:


I would respectfully disagree. The RAW language from Wish is that
In context, that is "greater" than a number of specified effects, some of which are reasonably equivalent to this one, specifically, the following:
(I am "undoing" the harmful effect of another Wish. I'm simply doing so in advance.)
(You transport me away? I am wishing myself right back.)

Using a Wish to counter another one is indeed fair game. But using a Wish to counter all future Wishes that may be used against you in perpetuity is clearly not. You're basically saying that your Wish should be more powerful than an unspecified number of future wishes, forever, and "my wish > their wishes" is clearly an example of a wish that is more powerful than a wish.

[Icewraith]

It would only work for one Wish. Also, for all you know someone could Wish you out of a room that's about to be covered in flux slime or something else very deadly, and your contingency would Wish you back into trouble.

[Urpriest]

Ah but it does because Selective Spell says "You can modify an area spell so that it does not affect one designated creature within it's area.". A Selective Antimagic Field has absolutely no affect on you because the effect it has is part of the spell and Selective Spell lets you totally ignore a spell.

Yes, it has no effect on you. But as you pointed out, AMF affects the functioning of certain abilities, it doesn't affect creatures themselves.

[Emperor Tippy]

Yes, it has no effect on you. But as you pointed out, AMF affects the functioning of certain abilities, it doesn't affect creatures themselves.

But that is irrelevant vis a vi Selective as Selective lets you totally ignore a spell; i.e. the spell does not exist for you. That means that the AMF doesn't exist for you.

Arguably you still can't drop a spell into the area covered by the AMF but, well what in the world are you letting anyone get that close to you for at the levels where Selective AMF is viable?

[Stegyre]

Using a Wish to counter another one is indeed fair game. But using a Wish to counter all future Wishes that may be used against you in perpetuity is clearly not. You're basically saying that your Wish should be more powerful than an unspecified number of future wishes, forever, and "my wish > their wishes" is clearly an example of a wish that is more powerful than a wish.
Actually, no. This one use of a Wish is limited to negating future other wishes only in a very limited field (the transportation effect), and further, it may be undone by another wish specifically addressed at undoing it.

As I said, ymmv, but this strikes me as a pretty balanced use of the spell.

[Craft (Cheese)]

But that is irrelevant vis a vi Selective as Selective lets you totally ignore a spell; i.e. the spell does not exist for you. That means that the AMF doesn't exist for you.

Arguably you still can't drop a spell into the area covered by the AMF but, well what in the world are you letting anyone get that close to you for at the levels where Selective AMF is viable?

If the spell doesn't exist for you, then doesn't that mean you aren't protected from hostile spells either?

[Icewraith]

If the spell doesn't exist for you, then doesn't that mean you aren't protected from hostile spells either?

No, because the spell exists for everyone else... hmm.

If you cast fireball (or widened fireball) and center it on an antimagic field, does the fireball effect appear as a ring around the antimagic field or does it completely fail to go off? If outcome 1, yes. If outcome 2, no, you are protected.

[Emperor Tippy]

If the spell doesn't exist for you, then doesn't that mean you aren't protected from hostile spells either?

That would be the case except for the slight fact that AMF is an area of effect spell that covers a number of squares and prevents the use of spells within said area. You are still inside the area of effect and it still covers your square, you just get to act like it doesn't exist.

AMF stops spells by 1) cancelling them out if their point of origin is inside the AMF (and the spell isn't one of the rare few that give different specific rules for a case like this) and 2) suppressing any spell that is inside the area it covers. So someone casting on you can target and cast at you just fine, the problem is that magic doesn't work right in the square you are standing in and thus the magic does nothing inside that square; that this makes you immune to that spell is purely incidental.

[Psyren]

Actually, no. This one use of a Wish is limited to negating future other wishes only in a very limited field (the transportation effect), and further, it may be undone by another wish specifically addressed at undoing it.

It's not limited because if someone casts a Wish to transport you that is all it will do. So yes, you are potentially negating multiple entire wishes with your one wish.

You're right that it's a DM call but it would never fly at my table.


If the spell doesn't exist for you, then doesn't that mean you aren't protected from hostile spells either?

This is the problem with all "donut AMF" schemes. If for any reason you are not subject to the AMF then it should logically mean you aren't protected either.

One place it does come in handy though is becoming immune to melee summons and incorporeal undead.

[Emperor Tippy]

This is the problem with all "donut AMF" schemes. If for any reason you are not subject to the AMF then it should logically mean you aren't protected either.

One place it does come in handy though is becoming immune to melee summons and incorporeal undead.

It's why I laugh whenever anyone mentions extraordinary spell aim AMF. Selective is the only one that actually works, and that is only because the AMF still covers the square that you are in.

[Chronos]

If Timeless Body protects against Wish abduction, then wouldn't a Dimensional Anchor on yourself likewise offer protection? It's also an effect on your person, not a local effect. Though granted, it could be rather inconvenient, unless you have some way of easily turning it off and reactivating it frequently.

[Emperor Tippy]

If Timeless Body protects against Wish abduction, then wouldn't a Dimensional Anchor on yourself likewise offer protection? It's also an effect on your person, not a local effect. Though granted, it could be rather inconvenient, unless you have some way of easily turning it off and reactivating it frequently.

Dimensional Anchor says "Forms of movement barred by a dimensional anchor include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like or psionic abilities."

Wish isn't similar and doesn't inherit from any of those or even share any real similarities.

[holywhippet]

If the person casting the wish spell is right there with you, arguably you could counterspell using either another wish spell or some kind of dispel magic.

[Chronos]

Quoth Tippy:

Dimensional Anchor says "Forms of movement barred by a dimensional anchor include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like or psionic abilities."

Wish isn't similar and doesn't inherit from any of those or even share any real similarities.
That isn't an exhaustive list, and besides, Wish is similar when it's being used for the "Transport Travelers" option.

[Phelix-Mu]

"Similar" would be useful to including wish, but it seems to be used to modify only SLAs and psionic abilities. Which is terrible, because now the list could be read as being exhaustive; no real comment is made about those being the only options, but there is only narrow room to conclude that there are other actual spells that qualify (let alone it doesn't seem to cover Su stuff at all, making it a very Swiss cheese kind of protection).

[Necroticplague]

That isn't an exhaustive list, and besides, Wish is similar when it's being used for the "Transport Travelers" option.

Not really. All those spells have limits about how far, where, when, how long, across planes. Wish has no such limits. Its also never stated how the transportation works, so you can't even say it operates similarly. A teleport supposedly works because you basically take a shortcut through the timeless astral. As do most of the rest of those listed spells (shadow walk goes through the shadow plane instead, maze is its own little plane). As far as wish is concerned, the transport doesn't use such trickery: you just cease being where you were, and appear where you wanted. So dimension-jumping shenanigans to be Locked.

[Chronos]

I suppose that if the destination is on the same plane, one might argue that Wish-travel isn't even "dimensional" at all. It seems like it should still at least protect against being abducted to a different plane, though, which could be quite useful if you spend most of your time on your own personal demiplane.

[SowZ]

Can I just wish to be immune to other people's castings of wish?

[Phelix-Mu]

I think Psyren covered that.



Using a Wish to counter another one is indeed fair game. But using a Wish to counter all future Wishes that may be used against you in perpetuity is clearly not. You're basically saying that your Wish should be more powerful than an unspecified number of future wishes, forever, and "my wish > their wishes" is clearly an example of a wish that is more powerful than a wish.

And thus an unsafe wish open to DM adjudication and an invitation for delicious plot-twists.

[Psyren]

That isn't an exhaustive list, and besides, Wish is similar when it's being used for the "Transport Travelers" option.

It's a similar spell perhaps - but not a "spell-like or psionic ability." :smalltongue:

(While we're all being pedantic and everything.)

[SowZ]

I think it's fair to wish to be immune to all future instances of being teleported via wish. You are using an ultra powerful spell to counter a hyper specific instance of another powerful spell. Also, you can no longer wish to teleport somewhere?

[unseenmage]

Craft Contingent Spell Wish to be teleported to line of sight of whosoever else tries to teleport you via Wish.

Because two can play at that game.

[Emperor Tippy]

Craft Contingent Spell Wish to be teleported to line of sight of whosoever else tries to teleport you via Wish.

Because two can play at that game.

The problem is that any smart person uses Wish to dump the target into a dead magic area and that disables all magic items, including Craft Contingent's.

And if your Contigent Wish goes off first then its irrelevant because the attackers Wish will just pick you up from wherever you end up and dump you back where he wants you and if your wish goes off second then you are in a dead magic zone and you don't get your Contingent wish.

[Rubik]

The problem is that any smart person uses Wish to dump the target into a dead magic area and that disables all magic items, including Craft Contingent's.

And if your Contigent Wish goes off first then its irrelevant because the attackers Wish will just pick you up from wherever you end up and dump you back where he wants you and if your wish goes off second then you are in a dead magic zone and you don't get your Contingent wish.Any spellcaster should have three levels of cleric and Initiate of Mystra at some point. Since wizards don't gain much post-17th level, taking them at 18, 19, and 20 seems a good match, assuming the game continues into epic.

Alternately, a permanent (or Persisted) Planar Bubble is always a good idea.

[Drachasor]

Because AMF alters the environment around a given creature, it does not alter the creature its self. AMF's do nothing to creatures, what they do is prevent the functioning of certain abilities inside their defined area, hence local conditions even if the local moves with the creature.

Or you could say it alters the creature itself so it radiates an AMF.

A buff certainly alters the environment WITHIN a creature. That is certainly a local condition, it's just more local than an area effect.


They persist independent of the creatures location though. Even dumped on a dead magic plane those spells still persist. They might cease to function or do anything but they still persist. For the creature these are temporary, global, effects (i.e. these effects last regardless of the creatures location for a defined time period).

The same is true of stuff like AMF. They still persist and they move with the creature. Just because one is confined to a smaller volume (a creature) doesn't make a difference.

Just because a local condition follows someone around doesn't somehow make it non-local. Just because a local condition affects just one person doesn't make it non-local either.


Buff's are not at all local. For buffs to be local you would have to be able to take a creature from a location where their buffs exists to a location where their buffs do not exist, that can not be done as the buffs have no defined location.

They do have a location. THE CREATURE. Since creatures have location, the buffs have location.

And you can use that same argument with AMF. It doesn't have a "location" because you can't take the creature radiating it outside of it. Except it, like buffs, clearly DOES have a location.


Antimagic Field has a defined location (a 10 foot radius around a given creature), you can point to physical locations that are outside of this area. You can't do that with something like Timeless Body.

Yes you can. Point to the creature, that's the location. Point anywhere else, that's outside of it. A tightly defined location is still a location. The buff is merely localized to a target.

[TuggyNE]

Or you could say it alters the creature itself so it radiates an AMF.

If you cast AMF on yourself, perhaps. If you are merely within another's AMF, this is self-evidently not the case.

[Drachasor]

If you cast AMF on yourself, perhaps. If you are merely within another's AMF, this is self-evidently not the case.

True, but my first thought on this was Contigency + AMF. So with regards to the OP's question you will be radiating the AMF.

Personally, I think the "local conditions" clause is so unclear that it is the DM's call on what it applies to. It's not even clear that it means on both ends of the teleport (granted, since it is a Wish, it probably should, but the language is not clear).