[PF] My Fite is Tank!

[AstralFire]

...In a sort of classical sense. "I ignore whatever you do to me but do enough damage that you can't ignore me."

Starting out at level 1. 25 PB, Human, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Aasimar, I'm-totally-not-a-fire-Genasi or Halfling are options (though for story reasons, would prefer the Human most). Concept is a Crossbow and Shield Fighter member of the City Watch who got kicked out of the Architect Guild after money problems; this is a semi-persistent world game, one of my co-DMs is annoyed that no one's playing a pure Fighter yet (at most dipping), and I prefer to lead by example rather than complaining that players need to pick an option no one else wants to.

So.

Here I am.

So far I have this stat array: 8 Str (enough to move in her armor), 16 Dex, 18 Con, 14 Int, 12 Wis, 10 Charisma. 2 traits, all traits open (mostly). Would rather not tank her Charisma, but I could get away with it because she's supposed to mutter under her breath, roll her eyes, shoot something in the face and be pretty gallows-humor-y.

Starting at level 1, she's wearing Breastplate with an Armored Skirt for now. I'm currently using no Archetypes; I could use Archer, but until double-digit levels, I'm not impressed with its choice of combat maneuvers, and that's a long way off, while I want the extra AC. Feat plan is something like...

1: Rapid Reload, Precise Shot, Point-Blank Shot
2: Rapid Shot

And then my options pretty much wtfexplode but not entirely sure what the most effective use of them would be. I've written about 3 level 20 plans so far. I know it's unorthodox and shield usually sucks in the long run. I'm frequently a GM for this game so I do have leeway to suggest very *minor* houserules when it comes to creating feats, but I'd rather not resort to that.

[Hamste]

Is Svirneblin not possible? They are by far the best tanks with massive bonuses to ac and good bonuses to saves.

[AstralFire]

Is Svirneblin not possible? They are by far the best tanks with massive bonuses to ac and good bonuses to saves.

I could probably pull the strings to get it if I wanted, but only for me; the other DMs already take a lot of "benefits" for their PC characters, and I'm not comfortable with doing things I don't allow regular players to do. Dwarf, Gnome and Elf are the only other races I'd want to be that I didn't list up before, but I already have those for other characters.

[Slipperychicken]

one of my co-DMs is annoyed that no one's playing a pure Fighter yet (at most dipping)

Why is this an issue?

[AstralFire]

Why is this an issue?

Just an idiosyncracy, he wanted to see more straight martial characters than we've gotten. It's not a huge deal, I've gotten a kick out of the concept anyway.

"Zombie? Stop groaning so I can shoot you in the face."
"Bear? Stop roaring, shoot you in the face."
"Monk? Deflect. Cute. Shoot in the face."
"Dragon? Meh. Shoot it in the face."

[(Un)Inspired]

Definitely be small.

Take that trait that increases your ac by 1 in medium or heavy armor.

In straight pathfinder fighter isn't the absolute worst option for boosting ac

If you actually want to play a "tank" for goodness sakes don't play a fighter. You're gonna go down like Charlie Brown kicking a football

[Slipperychicken]

If you're supposed to be tanking, for the gods' sake, have a Con higher than 14. See if you can drop Int somewhat to pump Dex and Con, because those are ultimately the only two stats you need.

If you're trying to build for Focused Shot with that Int, that's ultimately not going to be worth it since you need to spend a Standard action for it.

How were you planning to deal with the fact that reloading provokes an AoO? Just 5ft step out before firing?


straight martial characters

"Dragon? Meh. Shoot it in the face."

Ooh, you could take this opportunity to guinea-pig a gunslinger idea I had. It's more or less the same thing as you planned, but saves you from the relative terrible-ness of crossbows, getting you Dex to damage. Using a firearm also gives you a decent reason to be in melee.

Basically:

Human Gunslinger 1/Trench Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/trench-fighter) 3

Dex>Con>>Wis>Everything else

Basically:
level 1. Rapid Reload (Human), Point Blank Shot.
level 2. Rapid Shot (fighter)
level 3. Deadly Aim (fighter), Precise Shot.
level 4. [Trench Warfare class feature from Trench Fighter => Dex to Damage with your pistol]

From there, I would recommend continuing in Trench Fighter for Weapon Training, qualification for weapon focus/specialization feats, and also bonus feats which will be very nice with ranged fighting (things like Snap Shot, Clustered Shots, weapon training, and weapon specialization). You can also stack armor master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/armor-master) with Trench Fighter if you don't mind losing Weapon Training. Also, I'd recommend trying to grab an advanced firearm like a revolver (or pepperbox rifle ideally) over the course of the campaign.

[AstralFire]

If you're supposed to be tanking, for the gods' sake, have a Con higher than 14. See if you can drop Int somewhat to pump Dex and Con, because those are ultimately the only two stats you need.

If you're trying to build for Focused Shot with that Int, that's ultimately not going to be worth it since you need to spend a Standard action for it.

How were you planning to deal with the fact that reloading provokes an AoO? Just 5ft step out before firing?

No, Focused Shot is terrible. Int is high because the game is sufficiently skills heavy that I'm a little bit nervous about the character being able to do much at low levels without a decent Int, during which time the high AC is great enough. But it's true that that's not going to stay the case at higher levels. Adjusted stats to 8/16/18/14/12/10.

Crossbow Mastery allows me to ignore the AoO. Unfortunately, Gunslinger's not available in the custom setting we're using, and neither is "put the Gunslinger with Crossbows" which was one of my earlier ideas, sadly.

[avr]

If you like readied actions there's a Crossbowman fighter archetype. The Weapon Master's probably better though. I'd take either over straight fighter.

If there's anyone else you can talk into taking a teamwork feat (maybe an inquisitor?), target of opportunity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/target-of-opportunity-combat-teamwork) is worth getting. Ditto for the lookout teamwork feat.

[AstralFire]

If you like readied actions there's a Crossbowman fighter archetype. The Weapon Master's probably better though. I'd take either over straight fighter.

If there's anyone else you can talk into taking a teamwork feat (maybe an inquisitor?), target of opportunity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/target-of-opportunity-combat-teamwork) is worth getting. Ditto for the lookout teamwork feat.

Crossbowman did not impress me. Relying on readied actions against one foe to get a piddly damage bonus with a single attack seems like something better suited in concept to the rogue. Weapon Master seems pretty good at being offense oriented.

Teamwork Feats aren't a good idea. When I'm not the DM, it's a grab bag of who's going to be in the group (and when I am the DM, I refuse to DMPC under any circumstance.)

Let's say I went with Ranger instead, in theory: would there be anything better as a result?

[Slipperychicken]

Let's say I went with Ranger instead, in theory: would there be anything better as a result?

Ranger would probably synergize (slightly) better with tanking, since it lets you build for "switch-hitting", where you're competent at both melee and ranged, use a ranged weapon (something you can add your Strength to, like javelins or a Composite Bow) until everything's in melee, then switch to a two-handed weapon and rush in. Ideally, this should let you full attack every round.

Additionally, you get to use wands (you can use a wand for any spell on your list, including CLW, even if you can't cast said spell yet) and other magic items like scrolls, you get much better skills, limited spellcasting, and your animal companion can be useful as a mount and/or flank buddy. You're slightly worse at fighting, but far better at utility.


Switch hitting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2/treantmonk-s-guide-to-rangers) basically goes as such:
Human Ranger, Archery Style
Strength>Con~Dex>Wis>Int>Cha

1. Power Attack, Quick Draw
2. (Combat Style) Rapid Shot
3. [whatever melee feat you want, like Cleave, Step Up, etc]

5. Deadly Aim
6. (Combat Style) Manyshot
7. [another melee feat]

[AstralFire]

Eh. Familiar with the Switch-Hitter build, and it's clearly a good build, but we've got like... four players who are already Switch-Hit rangers. I guess I'll just have to be content with this being a mostly low-level concept. :)

[avr]

A ranger can be purely into archery, sure. They are limited to light armor which is generally a bit un-tankish. The Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/guide) archetype has a misleading name but is great when you don't know what types of enemy you'll be fighting in the campaign, which is most campaigns IME. A few spells help a lot.